Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks

For a long time i have had a dream of building a Hemi for my A body. I don't know much about Hemi's except they cost a lot. 572 street/strip deal. This will be a long term project, but want to get the block and heads right away and collect the rest of the parts over time. Looking at two blocks, Bill Mitchell aluminum block 4.590x10.72 and the other the Indy Maxx aluminum block. The Indy is available in 4.500x9.980 also. Not sure which will be easier to fit my A body, but the short deck might be the ticket. Right now just curious to the quality of these 2 blocks and work need before assembly? Looks like the BM block comes with bushed lifter bores and is a little easier on the wallet than the Indy. Just looking for some opinions for now. Thanks

Weren't all the 1968 Hurst SS car standard deck heights 426 Hemi blocks with crossram intakes with Holley carbs. ?
they where and they fit fine, I put a crossram all iron Hemi in one of my old Dusters with elephant ears using the stock rear tranny crossmember with Hooker SS chassis headers, worked fine, lasted a long time and fast too

Yes, but i'm hearing that some had moved their steering box or the pass inner fender skirt needs modifying . Did the 68ss cars have inner fender skirts? I have a ton of questions on fitment and block pros and cons.

All that and more....We trimmed the steering box mount, moved the master cylinder, and still had to use a plate to put the engine where it would fit with everything. 572 gonna need a big header....

I talked to one of the SS/AH guys at Indy one year. He said they beat the shock towers back with a sledgehammer. He said some of the cars got body filler in the dents to smooth them out.

Gonna use a plate for sure, but what is the issue with the pass side inner fender skirt? I keep hearing the skirt needs to be modified to get the valve cover off. Would using the short deck block solve this issue?

Wow, I see. I know Jim Keyes mechanic, He's my trans guy. Maybe he can shed some light on this issue as well.

The Hurst cars had the pass. side sheet metal around the shock tower flattened, offset master cylinder plate added, steering box moved away from engine, spacers between the k frame and longitudinals.

I think the firewalll to floor weld flange was rolled back too.

Stop by and take a look at mine anytime. Are you talking about Reg, Jim Keyes buddy? Have know Jim for many years, I made a template off his Hemi Dart rear quarters for cutting the wheel-well openings on mine. Doing all the mods to fit the engine, is not as difficult as you think. It will even be easier using elephant ears for engine location. I have stock setup on mine.

One thing not mentioned yet is intake manifold availability for a low deck block. The choices might be limited. What you’re wanting to do has been done many many times.

Yes, Reg. I'm more of an acquaintance to Jim and Reg, but was a good friend to an old friend of theirs who has now passed. Real good people. Used to see Jim at the cars shows. I would very much like to take a look. I'll let ya know when i can get away for a bit. I need to have a talk with Reg about the durability of my trans behind a 572 Hemi with Stage 5 heads. My biggest concern is with the inner skirt.

That is a good point and will have to look into that as well. I have been reading something about 10 bolt heads, aren't they all 10? I still have alot of notes to take before pulling the trigger.

Forget the low deck at any price. Any price. So the real question is do you want the Bill Mitchell? The bore is too large, so I guess you will have to replace the sleeves. I'm guessing new sleeves will be $1,000 plus whatever someone charges you to replace them. I've never replaced the sleeves in a Bill Mitchell, I assume you need an oven. All this sounds like a $2,000 total bill to me. I know you say this is a low buck deal but I wouldn't take the Bill Mitchell either. This may sound strange but the cheapest Hemi blocks today are the new blocks. They are expensive. But they are the cheapest because of all the work it takes to get a dog block fixed up. I would borrow the money from the bank and seek out the best deal I could get on a new block of known quality.

People have been putting Hemis in A bodys for over 50 years. You can do it. But it's tight. In the next few months we are going to put one in my buddys 68 Dart. After 35 years of him wanting one.

There's no such thing as 10 bolt heads.

Yeah, well i'm in full learning mode here. How many bolts in a standard 426 Hemi head? As far as the bore goes, the block is offered in a 4.240 and 4.590 bore. I haven't checked , but thought there would be a piston for the 4.590 bore and if not it would have to be custom. My thought was, why would BM sell a block with that bore size if there is no piston available for it, so didn't give it anymore thought. I'm sure it will fit, i just want to know in advance so i can prep the engine bay before i get it on a hook.

Maybe it is a 4.490 bore. That way you can hone to 4.500. I do like the aluminum blocks. There are new iron Callies blocks on ebay now for $4,900.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gen-II-426-Hemi-Block-4-25-Inch-Unfinished-bore-at-4-245/333907434360?hash=item4dbe6f1b78:g:JDsAAOSwvtNgCIGZ

Hemi blocks are 17 head bolts. 13 regular bolts and 4 inner valley studs.

All the gen 2 based hemi blocks use 17 head bolts, it is the intake bolt holes that vary between the some of the race heads and the stock Mopar based street heads , 8 per side versus 10 per side, I think
I've never seen or used a all out race head yet so I may be wrong on this

There are a couple of different intake configurations.....Standard is 16 bolt...Two little bitty 1/4 bolts per port. Then there are the SS/AH heads with only 1 bolt per port also 1/4 and the other is welded up and then they port right thru it....Then there are Indy intakes with only 6 bolts for even bigger ports....where the bolts are centered between each port. There is a reason a single carb intake can now out run the cross rams of old.

So you will have to make a choice with a 572, typically 4.5 bore x 4.5 crank, run big ports or be constrained by the smaller bolts right next to stock ports.....I would pick and engine builder, and get all my parts from one source. If you don't, mixing and matching parts can be a real headache.

Some heads have the valves rotated and require certain pistons, etc...For me, If I were to build another, I would do a Callies Iron block, and probably Eddy heads.

But choose a builder like Bob George Racing or Ray Barton or Tim Banning right by you, and source all your parts thru one of them. Tim has some really awesome stuff he does and he only uses Stage V heads and they are not cheap, but his require no gaskets for the intake.

What are you looking at? Bill Mitchell Products BMP 088515
– Aluminum Engine Block Hemi Block 10.720 Deck, 4.490 Bore, Billet Caps
$5,895.75

BMP web link

I hate to ask, but what is the status on Keith Black blocks? When I go to the website all I see is t-shirts? Really?

Buy them from one of the other new owners now, Tim Banning at FHO will be my choice
I bought my 4.500 aluminum street wedge block from him several years ago back when you had to get in the waiting line to own one back before all the production issues were resolved I had him do all the finish machine work including bushing the lifter bores, finish the main align hone and all the rest to get it to stock blue print specs.
I'll buy more from him now

My dumb ass read that bore size wrong. Sorry, yes, it's a 4.490. One thing that BM said about the block was that the liners stick out above the deck. Are these to be machined flush with the deck or are they intended to be assembled this way?

I was intending to use Best Machine for purchase and machining, but i will call FHO as well. Thanks

I was looking over on Scott Browns site and he has the stage 5 replacement heads assembled and complete for about $4700/pr. I honestly don't know what head would be needed on a 572 Hemi with between 11:1 and 12:1 compression to make roughly 900hp street/strip deal. That replacement Stage 5 head it advertised at flowing a tad over 400cfm.

Ask Todd Marsh. He can tell you all about the status.

I ordered a KB block Dec 2018. I emailed Darren Beale March 2020 asking why I didn't have a block.
He called me twice from Australia assuring me I would have a block soon.
I spoke to Chris at KB in Newport Beach sometime last year and he said he was going to make sure Darren got in contact with me.
More hot air.

Ken Black lied to me for a year before he stopped answering the phone. He's starting to look like a pretty good guy.

I cancelled the order Feb this year.

The first KB street hemi block I assembled had the sleeves to high and I had to have KB fix them.
Make sure you get the specs. on the sleeve heights and check them as soon as you get the block correct if needed
I had to get a special set of head gaskets made for that motor also due to it being a street Hemi block, not a race hemi block
Another reason you will see me call them Hemiriod motors

The Sleeves should be .002" above the deck roughly not flush.

When new, my BMP block (4.490 HEMI) had the sleeves 0.002-0.003" over the deck. The decks were at 10.730" new measured with a Rottler F79a and the pistons were too much low in the hole. Since then the deck was machined @ 10.720, the sleeves are still up over the deck by 0.0005-0.001" after using a torque plate to set them. I had a message from Bill, there is no problem using the sleeves flush with the block.

Cool, I don't understand why, but if it's ok i'm good with that. What stroke, rod length and compression height did you use in that combo? I'm looking at using 4.500 stroke, 7.100 rod and a CH of 1.350 or 1.360.

Hi Dave, mine is the "small" 528", it has a 4.15" stroke with 6.86" rod and CH of 1.765. I wanted to use the internal oil pickup and Chrysler bearing sizes for the crankshaft.

I see, and that gave you what compression with what cc chamber?

Dave,

What is your goal with it? Doing a resto mod SS look a like, or pro-streeter? What Hp? Anything from a 528 on up can make +800hp all depending how much and where you spend it...These things can be an endless money drain if you choose mis-matched parts. ...

My plan is a pro street deal. Maybe run it down the track once just to see, but not a definite etched in stone hp goal, but 900ish would be nice. I'm thinking 11.5:1 or 12 572 using the stage 5 replacement heads which are cnc ported and flow just over 400cfm. Not sure where that combo will land me, but i think its close to my goal. Looking over on Arruzza's site, he has what i want. Looks like his Ross pistons might fit the combo well . I'm really liking the Bill Mitchell block at this point as well, haven't found any real negatives about it yet. Everything still on paper as i'm learning.

I am using the Stage V replacement heads with CNC by Modern Cylinder Head. also using the Stage V rockers . My block is a World Aluminum . I'm using CP pistons for 10.5 -1 It's pretty similar combo to what you have described, just less compression.

Mark

I'm using the Edelbrock Victor heads, I had to machine them because the guides and seats were not concentric from the box. They have now around 175cc since the valve job (valve sink). I am in process of milling them to have 172-173cc and regain the approx. 10.5 with the FelPro head gasket.
I will cc's them again to be sure.

Dave my plan is very similar to yours. My goal is 800-850 on pump fuel with an iron mopar block 572 ci. The only component I have is the 4.5 bore block. Purchased a couple years ago. We chose to go iron because this will be mainly street driven and at the time blocks were even harder to get a hold of. I'm leaning towards stage 5 heads, rockers, and their dual quad intake, solid roller cam (unknown specs currently). I would like to run as much compression as possible but leery of anything over 11:1. Hemis are supposed to tolerate more compression but sill a gamble with any pump fuel. Have you decided who your going to purchase the heads from? I think there are to many great hemi builders out there to pick from... Hahaha. Also the super prepped Edelbrock heads from Hughes seem like a good bargain with pretty impressive flow numbers. But just like everything currently they are out of stock and uncertain of availability. Not trying to hijack your post but very interested in your choice of parts.

Still looking, but it looks like i will order the block from Bill Mitchell and the heads from either Arruzza or Scott Brown. I still have to call Arruzza and get a price. He claims his Hemi pistons(Ross) have been worked out with help from Herb Mccandless to have the perfect dome shape for making power. Scott has those heads cnc ported with .800" springs/stainless valves for $4700/pr.

Got a link to Arruzzas site plus FHO

http://www.arruzzahighperformance.com/Parts/Parts.html

https://forhemisonly.com/572-street-hemi-package/

Thanks for the links, I can always count on the guys here.
I need some 4.50 + .030 pistons so they might can help

How is your Hemi combo running? Does Modern sell heads or are they just a machine/head shop?

Instead of doing all that work (and spending all that money) why not just buy an aluminum block for your wedge motor? You'll be able to build a 572 wedge for a lot less money and it will fit easier in an A body. Just upgrade the short block and then slide it in there over the winter.

The passenger inner fenderwell/shock tower area has to be modified in order to get the valve cover off. If you just mock up the engine and heads in the car, the VC will come off fine, when you add the rocker stands, shafts and rockers, you have to lift the cover off pretty straight and this is where the inner fenderwell becomes a problem. The VC will hit it before you can get it over the valvetrain. The master cylinder is typically offset, there are adapters for this and the MC uses flexible hoses - you have to remove the MC to remove the drivers VC. Another thing is that you have to shorten the jacket on the steering column or it will hit the head. This is pretty easy, remove the jacket, cut it off shorter, add a new hole for the bearing and re-assemble. These cars originally had spacers between the K-frame and the frame to lower the engine - you will have to check and modify for correct bump steer as lowering the K frame throws the steering geometry off. If you are using a motor plate, I would remove the motor mount brackets from the K-frame for more header clearance and oil pump clearance, especially if you are running a dual line system.

I can do these mods. I understand i only need about an extra 1/2" clearance on the shock tower/fender skirt. As for the steering column, i have an ididit column in the car with the cover shortened to the firewall. MC sounds like a no brainer. Thanks for explaining that, i really get it now.

I agree Andy. A 572 wedge would be the smarter way if i just wanted to go fast. I want to go fast and look good doing it. You know those big valve covers with plug wires sticking out the top is super sexy. Always wanted to know what makes a Hemi tick and want to learn all i can about them. This will be an expensive project for sure, but will have plenty of money and lots of time once i'm retired. I think i'm gonna pull the trigger on the Bill Mitchell block real soon here. Still undecided on the stage 5 head or the Edelbrock victor JR Hemi head. I'm hearing more good about the Victor head at this point.

Dave,
I think it runs good. It was meant to be street driven and pump gas friendly and it is. It runs 5.98s at 115.43 consistently @ different strips on different days with a Indy 426-2 and 4150 Race Demon RS carb. I switched to a 426-3 and a Holley Gen 3 Ultra Dominator . Out of the box pass for a base line was disappointing 6.02 @ 115.73 It was way rich,and I didn't get another pass in. So, since then I have been into the Dominator and improved it but no strip data. I do believe it is stronger. I have never had this engine on a dyno and I don't think I have optimized the ET potential of the car with only 15 runs total. It probably could use a higher stall converter for example. But, it is a lot of fun at a cruise . I think the Ray Barton intake is what I need for a next step up in power. But, I don't have room for it using an air filter.
I don't know if Modern sells the Stage V heads . I bought mine and sent the heads to Jeff K. (RIP) @ Modern back in 2009. https://www.moderncylinderhead.com/index.html The cam used is a solid roller for street / strip use from Dwayne Porter. I will provide specs if you want them?
The crank and rods are from K1 Tech. I believe that was just before Tom Molnar left K1 and went on his own ? 7.100 rods 4.5 X 4.5. bore and stroke . The CP pistons are from FHO 10.5 to 1.
I am curious what Bill Mitchell changed for upgrades to the World block. ?
I have really enjoyed this Hemi . I am glad that I went that route.

Mark

Why would lowering the k-frame change bump steer? Nothing changes except the distance between upper arm and lower arm pivots points, 1/2”? steering components stay in same spot.

Don't know what your car weights, but that hemi runs real good either way. So, about a 10.5:1 pump gas deal? You can pm me the cam specs if you like as i'm curious, but i'm thinking something like 265 to maybe 275@50 with 11.5 to 12.0:1.

I should not have to lower the K anyway as i plan on using a T ram. Hood clearance doesn't mean much because of the T ram, but i may use that Barton short T ram.

Dave the CP pistons have a 1.37 CH and Tim said they were 10.5 to 1 . and yes it is a pump gas deal. It makes things so easy for street driving.
You are real close on the cam.
The cam is .674 int and exhaust is .657 with the Stage V rockers 1.6 and 1.56 ratios respectively . Lobe lift .421 Duration @ .050 is 264 int. and 270 ex. LSA is 112 * .
This combo works well, and it is a handful on the street. If I were doing more strip than street I might up the compression to 11-1 and a little more cam, but then street and strip is a compromise and I will stay where I am with this for now.
On the strip it revs fast and I am often over revving first gear 1-2 shift. I need more seat time.
Thanks,
Mark

Yep, same.

I can't help much on the aluminum block selection as I only collected iron, because of where I used to work/once in a lifetime deals that came along.

There is alot of good information availble from folks here, I got plenty of excellent advice with mine.

One thing that almost got me is, the length of time it takes to get all the air out of the valvetrain. It can cause a little bit of doubt.
It was Exactly like Bob George said it would be, 20 years ago.

Anyway I did a similar combo with less compression and cam than you are talking about, in an iron block with Victor heads. I never had a HP goal but
am hoping for 600-something at the rear wheels. I deliberately left room to grow by not porting the heads, and by starting
with a smaller-than-optimal intake manifold. Fired 4-26-20 and now am getting the car ready.

Good luck in your quest.

My last pump gas hemi made 986 on pump gas. Was 11.4:1, with a solid roller that was a decent size.... bigger then any of the others mentioned. The engine was 572 cubes and used a indy1RA head. Building a new combo now and i looked at the victor heads, and decided on the stage5 through barton..

Everyone is suggesting Stage V or the Eddy Victors, even the guys that have used Indy hemi heads in the past.
I really like the cast in pedestals of the Indy's, plus they have some big valve options, what am I missing?

Eddy's cant be beat for the price, and if you want all the power buy the stage 5 millennium's. Indy's [censored] dont make the power, there is a million factors. I do like the rocker stands cast into the head as well, but you know all stage 5 stuff is hipped..... is indy?

After I saw a couple of them with the pedestals busted off I stopped considering them.

Not sure how common an issue that is, but I do know for sure: I don't want to find out.

Sounds like a lot of fun. Nice combo. Thanks for all the info, really helps.

I really don't know which head will make more power the Victor or the Stage 5. Is there a difference in performance between the two?

The Stage V's for starters require machine work (porting), the victors are supposed to be good out of the box. Stage V was having a bad quality issue with the castings being badly pitted but they solved the issue.
My Stage V custom heads were sent out to me with the bad pitting (I have pics) and I sent them back and waited over a year to get new heads. The stage V's, according to Tim Banning, are supposed to be a much stronger material than the victors and my new heads
are very nice, all machine work done by FHO. Thankfully Eric at Stage V kept me updated as to their progress with solving the issue and was adamant that I get a quality product. Power wise, if the heads both breath the same volume than the power should be the same and yes, one
costs a lot more than the other.

Thanks for the reply and the info. They both look like good heads. I spoke with Best Machine about hemi heads and they suggested the Victor because of price and they come with bigger valves, but does bigger valves guarantee more flow in a hemi head? The stage V has a 168cc chamber and the Victor has 170cc chambers. Looks like the stage v head cnc'd flows 407cfm@.700 and the Victor flows 450cfm BM tells me. Its really hard to find much tech like flow numbers and such about the Hemi engine. Surprised there is not more info out there. Must be top secrete.

Dave I wouldn't be concerned about flow numbers on cylinder heads yet especially if you cant get the parts. Personally I would be concerned about getting a block, have you ordered one?

No, but Bill Mitchell told me to get back with him in April as he had some blocks coming. I will be ordering within the next week or two.

Dave, This is from 2009 FHO cnc Stage V replacement with 2.30 and 1.90 valves. I was offered the same valve size option from Modern but did't choose to do that. Just a little more info for you.


FHO CNC Ported Stage V Replacement Heads. For mild to wild street strip engines.

FHO CNC Replacement Head- Notes- application Blown Pro-Street Hemi - Use 45 degree wide seats for durability.
Note - Use stock intake and exhaust port openings.

Exhaust Port with 1.90" Valve Intake Port with 2.30" Valve
Flowed at 28" without tube. Flowed at 28"
.100" 61 .100" 75
.200" 135 .200" 159
.300" 187 .300" 248
.400" 230 .400" 315
.500" 258 .500" 384
.550" 267 .550" 412
.600" 279 .600" 435
.650" 287 .650" 453
.700" 295 .700" 467
.750" 298 .750" 469
.800" 301 .800" 471

Stage V Replacement Head with FHO CNC Porting.

Tests performed on Superflow 600 with FlowCom.
4.500" Bore Plate
Combustion Chamber 168cc
Intake Volume 241cc
Exhaust Volume 118cc
Intake Valve 2.30" Ferrea Titanium Tulip 11/32" Stem
Exhaust Valve 1.90 Ferrea Inconel TF Stainless Tulip 11/32" Stem



Mark

Good to hear. Stay on top of it because this hemi stuff is top secret and badass. The problem is most of these builders think that everybody they get calls from about a hemi is a tire kicker. It's understandable because these things are way expensive. But for me this is a project that will take a couple years so I need assurance that the correct parts are picked. I've beat my brain looking at flow numbers vs valve size vs builder and on! With that being said I'm learning that all these heads are capable of making the horsepower. So what ever you can get your hands on will work. Plus just like any engine its not just one component that makes it tick.

I built a hemi dart years ago using the hooker 2-1/4 primary tube 4 inch collector original style headers. I did it the factory way. clearances shock tower, moved master cylinder on flex lines, cut down steering column outer tube, spaced K member down, elongated holes on steering box and moved it over, etc. even then i still had to have some header tubes modified to fit.

If i had to do over again I would use a motor plate, and have headers custom built. Put the motor in a place where valve covers come off, might still have to do offset master cylinder and some shock clearance work. But moving steering box and stacking k member, i wouldn't do that ever again. I built the car around the headers, next time build headers around the car.

Thanks for the wealth of info guys, much needed. I'm planning on using the TTI A body hemi header . Tubes are only 1 1/8" thou, so should be a scunch easier to fit.

Do you really mean 2 1/8 inch primary pipes?

Oops, yes 2 1/8. 1 1/8 would be kinda small.

My brand new stage 5's look like jewelry from barton. No chance a victor has the same power potential as a stage5 mullenium. That head comes stock with a 2.4 inch valve, and has the intake port to maximize it. If you want to be at a certain price point, its hard to look past the victor..... But you aint gonna out run a proper set up stage5

The Stage v replacement head has about the same flow numbers as the Victor Hemi head, but costs about $2000 more/pr. Only difference i know of between the 2 is Stage V has 168cc chamber and the Victor has 170cc.

The Stage V heads that Tim at FHO sells are not stock, he has them CNC first before selling them.
I'm not sure what they flow but I do know they will make 800 HP on a 572 C.I. 10.5 to 1 compression pump gas motor at 6500 RPM with a mild street solid roller cam with dual 4150 EFI throttle bodies

Very similar to my build. ProStreet car that I'd like to take to Drag Week. Mine is a 605, Indy Block, Indy CNC SR heads, 11:1 Pump Gas, mid size roller.

Untitled by Greg Ault, on Flickr

I purchased my Stage V heads from Scott Great guy to work with, The only reason i would think about going with FHO is if you wanted to O-ring the heads for the intake, Its a diffrent offset to make up for the gasket, So you cannot just have the Heads from Scott machined to install O-rings, If your not worried about the O-rings and you will be using a standard gasket Scott will set you up with a great set of Heads.

I was looking forward to talking to Scott about those heads as i used to be a regular customer of his 20 years ago. He doesn't answer the phone or return calls.

gsmopar curious why you chose the sr over the hipo?

Scott called tonight. Informed me there is a bigger head than the stage v replacement (not the millenium) that might be better for my combo. It has a much bigger intake valve, 2.40 vs the 2.25 in the replacement head. Also he thinks a cast iron Callies block would be a better foundation for a street/strip hemi. What do you guys think, cast iron Callies block or aluminum Bill Mitchell block would make a better street block and why?

N/A gas motor, cast iron
What blocks do the Pro Stocker run still?
They ain't aluminum as far as I know
Compact graphite iron I believe, maybe the middle word is not proper, dang my memory

Advantages of iron block: Cheaper, less hassle for daily driver, more stable for slightly more power.

Advantages of aluminum block: Repairable, better handling for daily driver, 200lbs lighter off the front of your A body.

I personally wouldn't mind giving up 15 HP or so to lose 200lbs off the nose.

I read some where that pro stockers have to run iron, because its in the rules. Read some old threads on here and some say they went from iron to aluminum and seen nothing on their time slip. So looks like the horse power penalty for aluminum is a wash with the lighter weight. Gonna research these Callies iron blocks some more. All i got so far is the Callies iron is a lot heavier than the aluminum block and about $1000 less.

Muscle Motors recommended it. They said CNC SR will make the power I want at a lower RPM.

Does Scott Brown have a website?

https://www.buyracingparts.com/cnc-...-replacement-hemi-heads---assembled.html





Mark

Another very similar and good perspective/story here:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2683214/1.html



That's on a 600+ CI combination using very long intake runners as well.
Food for thought.
Whatever Dave tells you, you can take it to the bank.

I think I remember reading that when I was in the process of putting mine together. I don't have anything to compare it too (other than my old wedge), but the car can do a rolling burn out in any gear on the street. It went 10.13 with only 32 degrees of timing on the first shake down pass in 100 degree Arizona heat.

If Pro Stock wanted to use aluminum blocks they would get it. They don’t want them. They want as much nose weight as they can get (within reason) and an aluminum block block won’t help that.

Pro stock also has a min weight, which im sure all the drivers are at..... So its known that a steel block will make more power then a cast alum block.... so if you made min weight with a steel block..... that would be the best of both worlds right???????

Called FHO today as someone suggested I should. He tells me to stay away from the Bill Mitchell block 088515. Not what I thought it was. I’m now looking at the Callies cast iron Hemi block and the KB aluminum. It’s looking like the aluminum KB block is a better direction and most of the machining is done. The Indy Maxx block looks to be a nice block as well but needs lots of machining adding another 800-1000 bucks bringing it up to the price of the KB. Thinking real seriously about the KB now. I really don’t want to add all the weight of the Callies block to the front of my car. Thanks for the info guys.

Just a FYI

Facebook market place has a NOS Keith black Aluminum Hemi water block listed 4.500 bore seller name is Tom James
Price may be a little stupid but not many around

I searched every way I could think of and can’t find that add. I would rather get the block from fho anyway because I want all the machining done when I get it. Gonna order the cp pistons from him as well. Thanks

Here we go again. Just spoke with Ray Barton and he had nothing negative to say about the Bill Mitchell block. It comes down to who you want to believe and what you want to believe. Also wants to sell me a head with the 2.25 valve. Says it’s all that’s needed. Gonna have to start another thread Tim Banning vs Ray Barton.

Me thinks them two Canucks work hand in glove very well to serve us hemiroid motor users

We are pulling my friends 604 out of his RR. It is a pump gas motor built in his garage and went on the Dyno the one FHO uses and John Owns. World Aluminum Block, it has Banning ports Stage V Streets heads nothing special with the valves I believe it is a 640 lift roller and factory wide pad rockers. It made 830 HP on the Dyno can not remember the Torque this was years ago maybe 15, Intake is a Stage V with Eddies. Only reason for pulling the motor is it is going to be upgraded and used in a race car being built so wanted to put about another 150 250 HP in the motor. Also have a New KB in the garage and it looks like a work of art. It is the raised big cam block 604 and will be built with FHO Mil. Stage V ported heads by Banning. This motor will take the place of a iron block motor 572 in another race car and will save a ton on weight. I like the new KB block either one of them and they are super nice machining and have lot of options. Price is not for the faint of heart but goes with the product.

What do you care which flows more.. you said it already... your building Hemi show poodle
You said you MIGHT take it to the track once to see what it might run

Yes, but I do want it to run better than my wedge and with this kind of investment want to do it right the first time. Not time to get sloppy just throwing this together. Looking for 850-900 true hp. Dave Dudek says it can be done with my combo.

Ok, cool. Than I should hit my target without any issue as I will be using more cam and compression. What rods is he using?

KB Raised Cam Block

Nice block, I ordered the heads from Tim at FHO and will be ordering the KB block soon. He suggested that i order the block with raised cam and 60mm. Wants me to run timing belt with this combo as well. I will be calling him back next week.

When a chain is used guys I know do not like the harmonics in the motor. The Belt Timing seems to eliminate this. You would have to study what KB is the best for you. The KB I posted will see only track time and will only use around a 850 lift cam. Others in the area use an Inch lift this is one reason why the Cam shaft is so big when you run such huge spring pressure.

Yes, that's the way i understand it. I'm thinking 700-750" lift and the 60mm cam should have no twist at that. I'm pretty much just following Tim's lead.

What options did you get with the heads?
Did Tim also suggest the spread lifter bores with that block?

They will be 2.30/1.90 stainless valve. 241cc/471cfm. Plan to use the stage 5 rocker system with them. I need to call him next week to get that sorted out as he had a pallet of heads on the way. He did not mention spread lifter bores, but did say the raised cam deal straightens up the pushrods.