drive shaft end yoke phaseing
#2847731
11/17/20 05:08 PM
11/17/20 05:08 PM
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68LAR
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Does anyone know what the max, "out of phase" angle is for the end yokes of a two yoke drive shaft? I've read anywhere from 1*- 3*.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: drive shaft end yoke phaseing
[Re: 68LAR]
#2847855
11/17/20 09:51 PM
11/17/20 09:51 PM
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jcc
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We are talking radial phasing? I would think 0deg off would be the goal.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: drive shaft end yoke phaseing
[Re: jcc]
#2847858
11/17/20 10:06 PM
11/17/20 10:06 PM
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We are talking radial phasing? I would think 0deg off would be the goal. I have a drive shaft that the angles are 2* off. I have a vibration when decelerating. Wondering if this could be the cause? I agree that 0* would be optimum.
Last edited by 68LAR; 11/17/20 10:09 PM.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: drive shaft end yoke phaseing
[Re: jcc]
#2847892
11/17/20 11:18 PM
11/17/20 11:18 PM
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INTMD8
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We are talking radial phasing? I would think 0deg off would be the goal. Yes that's what it sounded like to me as well. Op are you saying that the trans up/down angle is off vs pinion up/down angle or when front u-joint is straight up and down the rear u-joint is rotated a number of degrees clockwise/counterclockwise in relation? Shouldn't be any -twist- in the shaft. As for front to back, the angles should cancel out. For example, if trans output is 2deg down, rearend should be 2deg up, then u-joints cancel each other out. Not uncommon for pinion to be -down- outside this range on a drag car as it will climb the pinion on launch and performance is priority to smoothness. But, for chasing vibrations, here is a good visual. Don't forget to check centering driver to passenger side also. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idk3BVDVHq4
Last edited by INTMD8; 11/17/20 11:19 PM.
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Re: drive shaft end yoke phaseing
[Re: INTMD8]
#2848035
11/18/20 10:47 AM
11/18/20 10:47 AM
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We are talking radial phasing? I would think 0deg off would be the goal. Yes that's what it sounded like to me as well. Op are you saying that the trans up/down angle is off vs pinion up/down angle or when front u-joint is straight up and down the rear u-joint is rotated a number of degrees clockwise/counterclockwise in relation? Shouldn't be any -twist- in the shaft. As for front to back, the angles should cancel out. For example, if trans output is 2deg down, rearend should be 2deg up, then u-joints cancel each other out. Not uncommon for pinion to be -down- outside this range on a drag car as it will climb the pinion on launch and performance is priority to smoothness. But, for chasing vibrations, here is a good visual. Don't forget to check centering driver to passenger side also. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idk3BVDVHq4 Trans angle is 2* down. Rearend angle is 2* down Drive shaft angle is 3* down The drive shaft weld on end yokes are 2* off. If I zero one end yoke, the other end is 2* off.
Last edited by 68LAR; 11/20/20 09:17 AM.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: drive shaft end yoke phaseing
[Re: 68LAR]
#2848110
11/18/20 12:59 PM
11/18/20 12:59 PM
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dvw
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Granted perfect 0 degree phasing would be ideal. But if the phasing was causing the issue it would vibrate on accell as well. Shaking on decell sounds like the pinion is to far down. That being said your angles dont add up. Trans down 2 at the rear. axle up 2 at the nose is zero. Where do you get the 3 degree pinion angle from? What am I missing? Doug
Last edited by dvw; 11/18/20 01:02 PM.
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Re: drive shaft end yoke phaseing
[Re: dvw]
#2848148
11/18/20 01:44 PM
11/18/20 01:44 PM
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Granted perfect 0 degree phasing would be ideal. But if the phasing was causing the issue it would vibrate on accell as well. Shaking on decell sounds like the pinion is to far down. That being said your angles dont add up. Trans down 2 at the rear. axle up 2 at the nose is zero. Where do you get the 3 degree pinion angle from? What am I missing? Doug . Rear end is lower than tranny...
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: drive shaft end yoke phaseing
[Re: 68LAR]
#2848182
11/18/20 02:55 PM
11/18/20 02:55 PM
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Just N FYI. I found from a machine shop, that the phase differential should be within 1*. I'm close so, I got to look wlsewhere.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: drive shaft end yoke phaseing
[Re: 68LAR]
#2848254
11/18/20 05:05 PM
11/18/20 05:05 PM
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RapidRobert
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might not apply here but l had a part time occaisional vibration on decell & there was not enough yoke engagement in the tailhousing. a longer shaft with the same yoke took care of it.
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Re: drive shaft end yoke phaseing
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2848267
11/18/20 05:36 PM
11/18/20 05:36 PM
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might not apply here but l had a part time occaisional vibration on decell & there was not enough yoke engagement in the tailhousing. a longer shaft with the same yoke took care of it. . This is where I' m looking next. I'm about 3 3/4" out from end of tailshaft. I have replaced the tailshaft bushing with no change. Also new u joints at both ends. I measured the engagement of the input yoke. It is real close to about 3 1/2". Vertically no side to side or up and down wobble.
Last edited by 68LAR; 11/18/20 05:38 PM.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: drive shaft end yoke phaseing
[Re: 68LAR]
#2848353
11/18/20 09:52 PM
11/18/20 09:52 PM
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jcc
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To the OP, the "out of phase" term is not really proper here it seems as to your real intended question, best others not repeat it, 'phase' on a DS normally refers to the orientation radially of the yokes around 360Deg, which can by it itself lead to vibration issues, depending on the various angles you are asking about, but its doubtful IMO your problem centers around radial phasing of the yokes.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: drive shaft end yoke phaseing
[Re: 68LAR]
#2848605
11/19/20 12:46 PM
11/19/20 12:46 PM
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Does anyone know what the max, "out of phase" angle is for the end yokes of a two yoke drive shaft? I've read anywhere from 1*- 3*. I'm a bit confused by some of the nomenclature being used in this post and some of the responses. I found this article helpful in understanding my driveline and it's set-up. Also, I have often consulted with Dr Diff for further verification of my findings before I alter things. https://www.hotrodhotline.com/md/html/drive_shaft_harmonics.phpMy driveline is smooth as silk until I get to around 98 mph. Once I begin to exceed that, I get a vibration that increases in intensity the faster I go. At 130+ it is down right scary, so I no longer exceed 100 mph. I believe it is related to the excessive freeplay at the yoke to transmission bearing, both of which are new. There are several posts about this here and on For A-Bodies only.
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Re: drive shaft end yoke phaseing
[Re: dvw]
#2848701
11/19/20 03:23 PM
11/19/20 03:23 PM
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Granted perfect 0 degree phasing would be ideal. But if the phasing was causing the issue it would vibrate on accell as well. Shaking on decell sounds like the pinion is to far down. That being said your angles dont add up. Trans down 2 at the rear. axle up 2 at the nose is zero. Where do you get the 3 degree pinion angle from? What am I missing? Doug Sorry about the confusion. I had a brain cramp. I corrected my previous post to read correctly. I'm 2* down on both the tranny and pinion.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: drive shaft end yoke phaseing
[Re: 68LAR]
#2848930
11/20/20 09:17 AM
11/20/20 09:17 AM
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Granted perfect 0 degree phasing would be ideal. But if the phasing was causing the issue it would vibrate on accell as well. Shaking on decell sounds like the pinion is to far down. That being said your angles dont add up. Trans down 2 at the rear. axle up 2 at the nose is zero. Where do you get the 3 degree pinion angle from? What am I missing? Doug Sorry about the confusion. I had a brain cramp. I corrected my previous post to read correctly. I'm 2* down on both the tranny and pinion. When my Charger was like that is was not good at any highway mph cruising, I now have it,,,, trans from right to left, 2.5 down, Pinion 1.5 up with Caltac's set 1/4 " loose so the pinion can come up a little under cruise conditions to match the Trans angle, when I go racing, my preload on the Caltacs makes the Pinion go to 1 down & so far that has worked great.
Last edited by csk; 11/20/20 09:19 AM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: drive shaft end yoke phaseing
[Re: 68LAR]
#2849034
11/20/20 12:36 PM
11/20/20 12:36 PM
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dvw
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Granted perfect 0 degree phasing would be ideal. But if the phasing was causing the issue it would vibrate on accell as well. Shaking on decell sounds like the pinion is to far down. That being said your angles dont add up. Trans down 2 at the rear. axle up 2 at the nose is zero. Where do you get the 3 degree pinion angle from? What am I missing? Doug Sorry about the confusion. I had a brain cramp. I corrected my previous post to read correctly. I'm 2* down on both the tranny and pinion. * Ok that clears it up. Your pinion has to rise 4 degrees to get to zero angle. In the ballpark for leaf spring or Cal Tracks by their spec. CSK makes a valid point that this is not ideal for cruise. To DGS question. Ideal is close to Zero. But since the these angles are constantly changing, where do you set them? I've run 4 degrees nose down at cruise without issue. What happens you remove angle during cruise? Let's take CSK's example trans down 2.5, pinion up 1.5. This results in a 1 degree down pinion at cruise, nice. But under load the pinion will be 3 degrees higher than Calverts suggestion. It's all a juggling act. On a street/strip car if you end up between 0 and 2 degrees up at the pinion under load it will work. If the car is strictly one or the other you can dial it in even closer. Also remember on decell the pinion drops towards the ground. If you are running the old school 7 degree it can get pretty severe on shut down. Doug
Last edited by dvw; 11/20/20 12:56 PM.
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