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Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts #2813722
08/26/20 09:19 PM
08/26/20 09:19 PM
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BlueRacer69 Offline OP
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I recently bought a set of new Cragar S/S Mags for my 69 Dart. Now days you don't get lug nuts with them anymore. So I went on E-bag and found some sellers who sell what suppose to be lug nuts for Cragar S/S mags. Remember this is a 69 Dart, so the nuts are 7/16"-20 and have a 3/4" inch long shank length. Mounted up the first mag & tire, tighten it down and discovered you could still wiggle the mag all over the place. The lug nuts were slightly to long. Put on the other 3 mags and the same thing happen with them. Removed all 20 lug nuts and headed down to my local machine shop guy and had him shorten them a bit. Came home mounted up a wheel and it tighten down beautifully, no more wiggle. Same with the other 3 wheels. Torque the lugs nuts to 55 ft.lbs like the Dodge service manual calls for with 7/16" wheel studs. Take the car for a test drive. Drive it 1 mile and return back home. Check the lug nuts and they are all lose. Re-torque the nuts again, this time to 65 ft.lbs Take another 1 mile drive and return back home. Again the Cragar nuts are loosen up. Has anyone else here had this problem or have any guesses what is going on? Thanks.

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Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: BlueRacer69] #2813766
08/26/20 10:24 PM
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Something is not compatible. I would check with the company that made the wheels and find out what they recommend. My bets the outer diameter of the lug shank is to small for the wheel.

Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: BlueRacer69] #2813772
08/26/20 10:31 PM
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Looking at them they also have a special washer depending on the application. What number wheel did you order? Also what is your bolt pattern?

Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: NITROUSN] #2813792
08/26/20 10:52 PM
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I sold a '69 GTS a couple years ago that had Cragar S/S' on it. It was all penetrating oil, patience, and cursing to get them off. Then going back on, the lugs seem to be hanging up in the wheel itself and just like you, when they were tight the wheels were still slightly loose. I finally gave up and put steel wheels on it and almost gave the S/S' away just to get rid of them. I think I could have made it all work by honing the bores in the wheels and machining some of the lugs off but by then I was just tired of fighting it.


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Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: 6PakBee] #2813797
08/26/20 11:13 PM
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Make sure the register on the wheel hub is not hanging up in the center of the wheel.

Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: A727Tflite] #2813802
08/26/20 11:28 PM
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I have been using these wheels and nuts for 42 years. The recent lugnuts I have gotten had washers that were too thin, the original washers are MUCH thicker! I believe that is what the problem is. twocents Here is a picture of my Dart in 1982, never had an issue back then.

rhino 6349.jpg
Last edited by Rhinodart; 08/26/20 11:31 PM.

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Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: NITROUSN] #2813806
08/26/20 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Looking at them they also have a special washer depending on the application. What number wheel did you order? Also what is your bolt pattern?


They would have to be 4" bolt pattern to use the 7/16" lugnuts.


The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.

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Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: NITROUSN] #2813878
08/27/20 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Something is not compatible. I would check with the company that made the wheels and find out what they recommend. My bets the outer diameter of the lug shank is to small for the wheel.
This was my thinking too. Seems to be some slop when you place a lug nut in one of the wheel holes. Was thinking of making some sleeves from thin wall steel tubing that would fit over the lug nut shank to take up some of the slop. But that's only a crazy idea of mine. work Has anyone else here had a issue with repo Cragar nuts?

Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: Rhinodart] #2813880
08/27/20 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Rhinodart
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Looking at them they also have a special washer depending on the application. What number wheel did you order? Also what is your bolt pattern?


They would have to be 4" bolt pattern to use the 7/16" lugnuts.
Yes, 4 inch bolt circle.

Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: BlueRacer69] #2813948
08/27/20 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueRacer69
I recently bought a set of new Cragar S/S Mags for my 69 Dart. Now days you don't get lug nuts with them anymore. So I went on E-bag and found some sellers who sell what suppose to be lug nuts for Cragar S/S mags. Remember this is a 69 Dart, so the nuts are 7/16"-20 and have a 3/4" inch long shank length. Mounted up the first mag & tire, tighten it down and discovered you could still wiggle the mag all over the place. The lug nuts were slightly to long. Put on the other 3 mags and the same thing happen with them. Removed all 20 lug nuts and headed down to my local machine shop guy and had him shorten them a bit. Came home mounted up a wheel and it tighten down beautifully, no more wiggle. Same with the other 3 wheels. Torque the lugs nuts to 55 ft.lbs like the Dodge service manual calls for with 7/16" wheel studs. Take the car for a test drive. Drive it 1 mile and return back home. Check the lug nuts and they are all lose. Re-torque the nuts again, this time to 65 ft.lbs Take another 1 mile drive and return back home. Again the Cragar nuts are loosen up. Has anyone else here had this problem or have any guesses what is going on? Thanks.

..


Tighten them back up to your spec. Then mark each lug nut at 12 O’clock and take it for a ride. Come back and check them. If loose, see if the nuts turned using those marks you made. If not, then the wheel is hanging up on the pilot/hub and all that is happening is that you are drawing the wheel on to the hub each time to tighten and drive the car.

Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: A727Tflite] #2815006
08/30/20 05:19 AM
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Are the threads deep enough in the nuts? Might be the studs reaching the end of the threads before clamping the wheel down.

I'd be highly surprised if the wheels are hanging up on the register.

Easy to check, wheel off, hand tighten a nut onto a stud and measure the space between the seat of the nut and the wheel hub. It MUST BE LESS than the thickness of the wheel and washer.


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Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: ruderunner] #2815009
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Originally Posted by ruderunner
Are the threads deep enough in the nuts? Might be the studs reaching the end of the threads before clamping the wheel down.

I'd be highly surprised if the wheels are hanging up on the register.

Easy to check, wheel off, hand tighten a nut onto a stud and measure the space between the seat of the nut and the wheel hub. It MUST BE LESS than the thickness of the wheel and washer.


That’s the first thing I would have checked. Good suggestion though.

Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: A727Tflite] #2815034
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I never has Cragar SS' come with the lugnuts and washers, they were extra.

If it's a unilug wheel then you need the special offset washer and I would start all the nuts and run them down hand tight using a socket and extension, no ratchet, before I put a wrench on any of them.

I went to Cragar's website and there are a lot of possible wheels, what is the exact part number of the ones you have? I would suggest buying the nuts and washers made by Cragar

I believe Cragar A-09005-4 (RHT) and Cragar A-09004-4 (LHT) are what you need, summit has them

Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: Sniper] #2815053
08/30/20 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Sniper
I never has Cragar SS' come with the lugnuts and washers, they were extra.

If it's a unilug wheel then you need the special offset washer and I would start all the nuts and run them down hand tight using a socket and extension, no ratchet, before I put a wrench on any of them.

I went to Cragar's website and there are a lot of possible wheels, what is the exact part number of the ones you have? I would suggest buying the nuts and washers made by Cragar

I believe Cragar A-09005-4 (RHT) and Cragar A-09004-4 (LHT) are what you need, summit has them


They are NOT unilug wheels for small bolt pattern, those were never made.


The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.

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Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: Rhinodart] #2815056
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And if you looked at the lug nuts I posted they aren't unilugs either

Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: Sniper] #2815305
08/31/20 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Sniper
I never has Cragar SS' come with the lugnuts and washers, they were extra.

If it's a unilug wheel then you need the special offset washer and I would start all the nuts and run them down hand tight using a socket and extension, no ratchet, before I put a wrench on any of them.

I went to Cragar's website and there are a lot of possible wheels, what is the exact part number of the ones you have? I would suggest buying the nuts and washers made by Cragar

I believe Cragar A-09005-4 (RHT) and Cragar A-09004-4 (LHT) are what you need, summit has them
Hey Sniper, that"s the Cragar lug nuts I bought, just not from Summit Racing and they wouldn't tighten down my mag wheels. The shanks seem to be a little to long. So I took the nuts down to my local machine shop guy and had him shaved them down a little. Came home put a wheel on and they tighten down good, or so I thought. Mounted up the other 3 mags to 55 foot lbs and took the car for a spin. Drove it 1 mile, came home and checked the lug nuts and most were coming loose. Re-tighten again. This time to 65 foot pounds. Drove the car again 1 mile and returned home. Checked the nuts a second time, same thing coming loose again. Can't tighten them any more past 65 ft. lbs for fear of breaking the 7/16 wheel studs. Anybody got any suggestions? So now I've got $800 dollars worth of Cragar S/S Mags I can't use. down

Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: BlueRacer69] #2815367
08/31/20 09:12 AM
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There is no magic to this. To me there are a few possibilities - first make absolutely sure that the nuts are not still bottoming out.

Make sure that the washers are not collapsing or digging into the rim causing looseness potentially coupled with nuts being too long.

My primary thought is that either your lug nuts or studs are yielding because they are crap material or have been over-torqued. First thing to do is to inspect the nuts and studs to see if you can see then distorting. Also insect the nuts to see if they have adequate thread engagement.

I remember back in the 80's my rear wheel fell off in my 69 Dart with Cragar wheels - fortunately no damage. I think I forgot to tighten the nuts.


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Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: BlueRacer69] #2815635
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Originally Posted by BlueRacer69
Hey Sniper, that"s the Cragar lug nuts I bought, just not from Summit Racing and they wouldn't tighten down my mag wheels. The shanks seem to be a little to long. So I took the nuts down to my local machine shop guy and had him shaved them down a little. Came home put a wheel on and they tighten down good, or so I thought. Mounted up the other 3 mags to 55 foot lbs and took the car for a spin. Drove it 1 mile, came home and checked the lug nuts and most were coming loose. Re-tighten again. This time to 65 foot pounds. Drove the car again 1 mile and returned home. Checked the nuts a second time, same thing coming loose again. Can't tighten them any more past 65 ft. lbs for fear of breaking the 7/16 wheel studs. Anybody got any suggestions? So now I've got $800 dollars worth of Cragar S/S Mags I can't use. down


Well, apparently Cragar needs to get thier act together.

Gorilla nuts makes some

https://www.gorilla-auto.com/lug-nuts-page-05

Not sure which you need but they show dimensions and not sure if the make them in LHT too, but they have a contact link.

Hope this helps.

Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: Sniper] #2815659
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Maybe you need these with the larger shank diameter. these are .684 where the ones you are trying to use are .592. Did you ever call Cragar to verify what nuts you need for the wheels you have? Exactly what wheel did you buy? I see two styles series 08/61 S/S and 61C S/S.
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Last edited by NITROUSN; 08/31/20 08:42 PM.
Re: Issues with Cragar S/S lug nuts [Re: NITROUSN] #2815681
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Cragar is the only company that makes nuts for these wheels, the Gorilla nuts are for unilug as shown by the washer and diameter. Like I said before, I never had problems with them and the only thing may be the thickness of the washers. I have a few originals around the shop, I can take measurements tomorrow when I am out there. Just put Cragars on a 69 Dart last November with no issues. This is where I got them last year...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-7-16-Lug-Nuts-Cragar-5x4-Bolt-Pattern-SP/154053426261?hash

Last edited by Rhinodart; 08/31/20 09:28 PM.

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