Re: help on front end alignment
[Re: B1MAXX]
#2794738
07/09/20 01:15 PM
07/09/20 01:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,536 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,536
north of coder
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would it be possible to place a shim between the lower ball joint and the spindle ? that would effectively move the bottom out, giving you negative camber. i have had to do that on a couple of crashed cars that were still slightly tweeked after the repairs. you could use grade 8 washers, or make a shim the shape of the lower ball joint attaching point. i can't say how thick to start, but maybe .093 [3/32"] or .125 [1/8"] ?
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Re: help on front end alignment
[Re: krautrock]
#2794748
07/09/20 01:34 PM
07/09/20 01:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,536 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,536
north of coder
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i thought i remembered someone had those, but i forgot who. ["oldtimers disease" ] thanks for the reminder ! it looks maybe a couple of grade 8 washers [like in the link] might do the trick. way easier than fabbing up a plate shim.
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Re: help on front end alignment
[Re: moparx]
#2794773
07/09/20 02:17 PM
07/09/20 02:17 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,107 Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,107
Apollo, PA.
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would it be possible to place a shim between the lower ball joint and the spindle ? that would effectively move the bottom out, giving you negative camber. i have had to do that on a couple of crashed cars that were still slightly tweeked after the repairs. you could use grade 8 washers, or make a shim the shape of the lower ball joint attaching point. i can't say how thick to start, but maybe .093 [3/32"] or .125 [1/8"] ? Same thinking...I was going use the bushings to offset the whole upper arm in. I'm sure we could figure it out say imagine a circle with the the upper joint as the center draw a radius line out to the lower joint the factor in the shim and figure out the degrees. Funny this car was never wrecked, and all stock, except for a spindle swap. keep the comments coming, will post the progress...thanks everyone If anyone cares...
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Re: help on front end alignment
[Re: B1MAXX]
#2794784
07/09/20 02:26 PM
07/09/20 02:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,051 MI, usa
dvw
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,051
MI, usa
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I'm telling you something is wrong. Wrong part, bent,etc. The rear cam ALWAYS draws the upper ball joint rearward. Do you have the upper arms on the correct side? I have over 30 years alignment experience. Never seen one with readings like this on a B body. Doug
Last edited by dvw; 07/09/20 02:27 PM.
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Re: help on front end alignment
[Re: B1MAXX]
#2794878
07/09/20 05:23 PM
07/09/20 05:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,980 new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,980
new berlin wisconsin
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OK, so here is the rear cam in, front cam out, camber is 2 degrees positive. i might be in the wrong here and mis-understand what the OP is saying. but when i did front alignments on old mopars on a older alignment machine. it wasn't that old, it did record and respond the measurements electronically. to get CASTER you had to turn the wheel it think 20* to the right. save the measurement. then turn the wheels 20* to the left, save the measurement. than put the wheels to 0*, save the measurement and do something with the measurements to get actual caster measurement. called caster swing. i don't know exactly what is required with the measurement because the machine figured it electronically. to the OP are you doing this? or am i mis-understanding what you are trying to say on the measurements? also you can't get accurate alignment #'s with the front end removed. the missing parts weigh a fair amount. after adding this weight it will lower the car and decrease your positive CAMBER #'s towards negative caber. and increase your positive CASTER #'s to higher positive numbers. for all you know you might already be getting good #'s and don't know it. also you need turning plates, or something on the floor to ease turning the wheels. you also need them to measure the * of wheel turn on your caster swing. doing this on without anything will also make getting proper #'s really difficult. also are you setting the ride height before starting. if the front end is to high or low this can throw off your #'s. if it's to high you will get lower positive caster and higher, positive camber. if it's to low you will get higher positive caster and lower positive camber.
Last edited by Mr T2U; 07/09/20 05:53 PM.
perception is 90% of reality
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Re: help on front end alignment
[Re: B1MAXX]
#2794964
07/09/20 08:45 PM
07/09/20 08:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,980 new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,980
new berlin wisconsin
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i wasn't criticizing, i wasn't fully understanding the situation. that's why i made my comments.
whenever i had problems with alignments i was always taught to start at the beginning and make sure everything is proper when you start getting goofy #'s.
i want to again stress the importance of either turn tables or plates with grease on the floor. i don't see anything in the pics you provided. without this it can throw off you #'s pretty easily.
also i don't know if you are doing this but whenever i make adjustments or start getting goofy #'s i like to cycle the suspension a couple of times then re-measure everything again..
perception is 90% of reality
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Re: help on front end alignment
[Re: Mr T2U]
#2795054
07/10/20 08:04 AM
07/10/20 08:04 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,107 Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,107
Apollo, PA.
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I have two old pieces of linoleum flooring that are greased between, you can kind of see them in the last pic. next step is in stall the bushings and see what the results are. The feedback is appreciated... You're right when I did move them for the picture purposes there was no plates. Any time the gauge is on it I have the plates under it.
Last edited by B1MAXX; 07/10/20 08:12 AM.
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Re: help on front end alignment
[Re: B1MAXX]
#2795489
07/11/20 01:22 PM
07/11/20 01:22 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,107 Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,107
Apollo, PA.
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Here is what I have found: 1. Typical factory settings I have always been able to dial in. This is the first car of mine with a non original height spindle. This is the 70's disc b-body spindle which was taller than the original one that it replaced 2. The factory geometry runs one way, more caster more camber. At least on this car. 3. The factory settings were not achievable. too much camber. It was close, but I didn't want the factory settings anyway, 0-3/4*positive camber and 0-1*negative caster. 4. getting negative camber along with positive caster is a tough one. Using offset bushings I was able to get 1.5 degrees positive caster but the camber was still positive. The issue is you already have the rear cam and offset bushing so that the rear of the arm is in as far as it will go. So the only way of pulling the camber back is to bring the front in from max out.Which starts to draw the caster back also. 5. shimming the lower ball joint with washers was they only last solution, reducing camber with out losing caster. 6. Unless you are pushing the max adjustment the offset bushings don't help much, mine where only required in the rear position even though I put them in both.. It allowed more inward movement of the rear of the arm beyond that of the factory cam. Because I had to wind the front in from max out to reduce positive camber it just changes the position of the cam based on the offset of the bushing, when you get to your acceptable trade off, camber for caster and vise versa.The sweet spot would have been achievable with a straight front bushing also.
My very good friend has an alignment rack in his auto repair business, but after deliberation, once the car is on the road we believe we will find the same result.
Last edited by B1MAXX; 07/11/20 01:24 PM.
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