Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: WadeMetzinger]
#2774356
05/13/20 09:57 PM
05/13/20 09:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
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If you use the .020 head gaskets what piston to head clearances will you have? Allso what compression ratio?
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: 440Jim]
#2774480
05/14/20 12:03 PM
05/14/20 12:03 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073 Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
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Here are the details of the Drag Week 572 B1 motor I built:
11.3:1 compression for pump gas and then 600-750 Nitrous
Diamond Pistons 1.32 compression height and 24.2cc dish, valve depth at 90* intake: 330 and exhaust 270 picture of card and order form below
Cam designed by Monte Smith for this motor: .824/.789 lift with 1.75 pair T&D rockers (.471/.451 lobe lift), 279/294 duration, 112 Intake center line, 115 lob separation cam card pic below
I didn't write down the exact minimum clearance because I had more than .150 at 10 before and 10 after. Since we had a Jessel belt drive and we could adjust the cam degree easliy we did check it at a few different places but left the cam installed at 112.
For my pistons we didn't spec the valve pockets, we just used an off the shelf piston part #, changed the ring pack and told them to adjust valve pockets for B1 heads but they were supposed to keep the 4cc to keep 12:1 compression target. I'm guessing they may need to put a little dome on top side of the piston or they may want to decrease compression height from 1.480"
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: WadeMetzinger]
#2774507
05/14/20 01:26 PM
05/14/20 01:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
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Do you know how much piston to head clearances you have across the tops of the pistons? If not, you should :scope : I use to believe that the old adage of .035 minimum with steel rods was good until I found out ii isn't I like and use .040 minimum now with steel rod motors
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: 440Jim]
#2774512
05/14/20 01:34 PM
05/14/20 01:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
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Those reliefs look pretty typical to me for a B1 head. Part of your issue is going to be the smaller bore which will cause those reliefs to take up a lot of real estate. I don't think if you ask Scott he would say that small bore is ideal for those heads by any means. What compression ratio are you shooting for. Typically you should end up with a net zero piston or close once the reliefs are countered by a small dome to get a typical "race engine" compression, for me that mean 15ish to 1 fwiw. I have done some 12/13-1 stuff like my Valiant was, piston looked pretty much like yours do, valve reliefs around 13-18 and flat top. You will end up with somewhere around that 13-18cc relief and be 12/13ish to 1 depending on how small the chamber is. I don't have those pics handy. Also did a B1 original that came in at 14-1, again sorry no pics. But similar to yours with a -10.45 CC piston in a 4.500" bore and a 63.1cc chamber with a .043" Most my pictures these days are on photobucket and lost to me forever but have a couple on my phone. This is a CP piston for 15-1 B1 deal. It is at +.8 CC's figuring relief and dome. 63.3cc chamber and a .038" gasket. Next is a similar piston from Diamond again 15.2-1 bit larger chamber as they had been softened 84cc. Again though similar net CC's
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2774573
05/14/20 04:34 PM
05/14/20 04:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073 Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
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Do you know how much piston to head clearances you have across the tops of the pistons? If not, you should :scope : I use to believe that the old adage of .035 minimum with steel rods was good until I found out ii isn't I like and use .040 minimum now with steel rod motors Still don't have the rod to measure but they should be .020 in the hole and .040 head gasket, so should have .060.
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: WadeMetzinger]
#2774685
05/14/20 10:34 PM
05/14/20 10:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
|
Do you know how much piston to head clearances you have across the tops of the pistons? If not, you should :scope : I use to believe that the old adage of .035 minimum with steel rods was good until I found out ii isn't I like and use .040 minimum now with steel rod motors Still don't have the rod to measure but they should be .020 in the hole and .040 head gasket, so should have .060. Use some strips of modeling clay to make sure 1/4 inch thick by 1/4 inch wide laid across the piston valve reliefs and maybe some (2) laid across the piston tops front to rear also
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2780315
06/01/20 12:34 PM
06/01/20 12:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073 Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
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This weekend I put a rod, piston and cam in the motor and installed the Jessel belt drive to check Piston to Valve clearance at 108 as well as 2 and 4 degrees advance and 2 and 4 degrees retard in case I ever wanted to adjust it but initially planning to install at 108. With no head gasket, Intake was closest at 10* ATDC with .118 clearance and Exhaust was closest at 12* BTDC with .150.
I’m dropping off the head to have .036 - .040 taken off the deck and then I’m going to use a .027 Cometic head gasket so that will take .013 away from those clearances but that will be plenty of room.
I’ve never used these 3,3,9mm rings before, wow are they thin and delicate… I put the oil rings on just to hold the piston in the hole and I’m going to have to be really careful when installing because it’s going to be very easy to roll one of the oil ring when installed and I’m not sure I would know until after the motor was together…
Here are a few pictures of the T&D 1.7 rockers. I went with the single shaft rather than the paired rockers. Koffel assured me they would hold up and it would save a little $ and enable me to use standard through the block oiling.
As you can see the studs are machined down to allow the oil to travel through the shafts and you can see on the bottom of the hold down block where it’s been machined to accept the oil from the block oil passage and then feed the shaft which will feed the rockers and push rod cups. I will put .060 restrictors in the head to control the oil (I’m also dropping the cam off to the machine shop to have the groove the #4 journal for full time oiling to the heads/rocker)
The lifter bore on the KB block are .905 and the BAM lifters are .904 so they are on the tight side. I test fitted the lifters in each of the bore and you have to be perfectly straight to get them to go in and a couple of them are a little snug. I’m thinking that will be ok as the aluminum will grow with heat but I’m going to discuss it with my machinist to make sure he’s in agreement.
Also dropping off the rotating assembly to be balanced. Once that is done, I should be able to put the motor together, hoping to make some races in July (NHRA SST double divisional at Topeka is my goal)
Ordering MT front runners and slick this week as well as the APD Max Speed carb (ouch $).
The tranny was fine but it had a ton of passes on the 1.80 straight cut gears so I picked up a new set and it's getting put together so the tranny will be fresh and ready to go.
I also put a new set of Richmond 4.56 Pro gears in the Dana 60. Nothing wrong with them but they had 10 years on them so preventative maintenance.
Wade Metzinger 918-809-0987 71 Cuda 9.28@145 -1s, Pglide 68 Cuda 10.64@124 1.45 60's 318->390 eddys Moparts discount code on WIX - moparts www.Filter1.com
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2780910
06/02/20 09:53 PM
06/02/20 09:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270 Morrow, OH
markz528
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Morrow, OH
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Tony Bischoff (BES) did a great job on my intake. They cut the flanges off and welded new ones. You can't tell. And everything is o ringed including the valley pan.
Last edited by markz528; 06/02/20 10:33 PM.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: markz528]
#2781024
06/03/20 11:37 AM
06/03/20 11:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923 NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923
NC
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Tony Bischoff (BES) did a great job on my intake. They cut the flanges off and welded new ones. You can't tell. And everything is o ringed including the valley pan. O-rings for the intake ports will be nice. What is the port opening dimensions on your setup? 2.70" x 1.65" ish?
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: 440Jim]
#2781033
06/03/20 12:11 PM
06/03/20 12:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270 Morrow, OH
markz528
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Morrow, OH
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Tony Bischoff (BES) did a great job on my intake. They cut the flanges off and welded new ones. You can't tell. And everything is o ringed including the valley pan. O-rings for the intake ports will be nice. What is the port opening dimensions on your setup? 2.70" x 1.65" ish? Don't know..........
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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