Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: BiomedTechGuy]
#2733563
01/16/20 10:17 AM
01/16/20 10:17 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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I'm running a mild 493" RB with 10.2 to 1 (Cranks 200 psi & runs on 91 octane), Indy EZ non-max wedge port heads that flow 345" at .600 on the intake, a well-massaged aluminum 6pack intake, a Porter spec'd mild solid roller with non-needle bearing axle lifters and the old DC mechanical 2bbl carbs. The pistons and pins are below 540grms and it has 7.1 inch steel rods.
It pulls hard to 6700 rpm, gets nearly 14mpg all day long on the freeway at 70mph with 4.10's and the Passon and it pulls away from Hellcats whether from a stop or on the freeway. Everything fits under the shaker hood although it's a tight fit. I guess my point is, you don't need to get too fancy to accomplish your goals. Keep it simple. It's the combination.
Last edited by jbc426; 01/16/20 10:21 AM.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: nss guy]
#2733591
01/16/20 12:14 PM
01/16/20 12:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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Under-shaker LED strip lighting? (I was going to say "mood lighting" but not sure if it changes with moods) Just when I thought I had seen everything Very nice E body
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: jbc426]
#2733593
01/16/20 12:28 PM
01/16/20 12:28 PM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 906 Washington
hemienvy
super stock
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Washington
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: BiomedTechGuy]
#2734245
01/18/20 04:25 PM
01/18/20 04:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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I'd really like the details of what "well massaged" means regarding your Edelbrock/Chrysler aluminum 6bbl intake. I have considered doing a knife edge Vanke modification to the dual plane. I sent it to Dave Hughes, and he took it as far as they currently know how too. It flows a lot of air now. In fact, there is a back to back comparission between the 6 pack and a single 4 bbl intake on Hughes Dyno Page for the motor. I initially had my Indy EZ's done by them as well, but after a valvetrain instability issue with hydraulic rollers; I ended up having Dwayne Porter rebuild the heads and remove some epoxy from the roof of the intake ports just behind the Max Wedge bump and set them up for a mechanical roller. If I were to experiment with another Edelbrock 6 pack intake, I would buy one from Wilson with their full competition porting. As it is now, I'm running a "350 CFM" center carb on my set-up. I do have a new "500 CFM" center carb sitting on my work bench to try some day, but I get amazingly good mileage and responsiveness with the "350 CFM" carb now. It already has plenty of power for what I use it for.
Last edited by jbc426; 01/18/20 04:37 PM.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: jbc426]
#2734474
01/19/20 01:15 PM
01/19/20 01:15 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 100 Louisiana
BiomedTechGuy
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I'd really like the details of what "well massaged" means regarding your Edelbrock/Chrysler aluminum 6bbl intake. I have considered doing a knife edge Vanke modification to the dual plane. I sent it to Dave Hughes, and he took it as far as they currently know how too. It flows a lot of air now. In fact, there is a back to back comparission between the 6 pack and a single 4 bbl intake on Hughes Dyno Page for the motor. I initially had my Indy EZ's done by them as well, but after a valvetrain instability issue with hydraulic rollers; I ended up having Dwayne Porter rebuild the heads and remove some epoxy from the roof of the intake ports just behind the Max Wedge bump and set them up for a mechanical roller. If I were to experiment with another Edelbrock 6 pack intake, I would buy one from Wilson with their full competition porting. As it is now, I'm running a "350 CFM" center carb on my set-up. I do have a new "500 CFM" center carb sitting on my work bench to try some day, but I get amazingly good mileage and responsiveness with the "350 CFM" carb now. It already has plenty of power for what I use it for. Thanks again for the reply! I will look up the 4bbl vs 6bbl Huges comparison if I can find it. Chances are I've seen it before, but now I have some perspective knowing it's yours. I have seen some using the 3x 500 CFM mech+accelerator pump carbs, and some say it's a big improvement and others not much difference.
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2734646
01/19/20 09:34 PM
01/19/20 09:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,490 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
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A stick is way cool and fun. But for most people it turns a competitive car into a mere toy. A stick behind a 540" wedge will, at least for most people, make the car more dangerous and less competitive. But, some find it more fun that an auto. We all have to pick our priorities.
Oh for crying out loud Dave. I mean this in the kindest most respectful way, but you are bass-ackwards on that toy thing. Statements like that make it all the more fun to take my stick car out and whoop up on somebody driving with one of those slippery, slimy, stinky, fluid couplings. It's the automatic that's a toy. Like a videogame. Just point the car down the track, release a button, do your knitting, call your girlfriend, what ever, while the car does all the work, until you reach the finish line. Driving a manual transmission car actually gives you a skill to master. And it's very gratifying when you get it right! Assuming that an automatic car and a stick car are both well set up and driven by a highly skilled operator, there is no discernible performance or safety difference. True, everything is easier with the automatic, and most racers will default to more easy instead of more fun. But if the OP here is a dedicated stick man, he'll do more work and have more fun.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: BiomedTechGuy]
#2734721
01/20/20 12:56 AM
01/20/20 12:56 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/3dynotest684hp500cid6pack4bbljcross012007.phpI have since sent the intake back to them, and the took it as far as they are able ato at this point. I did make other changes to the motor but have not dyno'd it again for a comparison.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#2734819
01/20/20 10:47 AM
01/20/20 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,078 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,078
Benton, IL.
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I'll double down on my statement;
"A stick is way cool and fun. But for most people it turns a competitive car into a mere toy. A stick behind a 540" wedge will, at least for most people, make the car more dangerous and less competitive. But, some find it more fun that an auto. We all have to pick our priorities."
Joel, you may be one of the few that will BEAT the heck out of your car (called practice) until you get good at rowing the boat and get and keep all of the EQUIPMENT in perfect working order, but most owners are not doing either.
I did not imply in my statement that it couldn't be done. I said, and stand by it, that for most people, a stick turns a competitive car into a mere toy. That was true back when our muscle cars were new and is still true today with the Hellcats.
Master, again and still
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2734832
01/20/20 11:26 AM
01/20/20 11:26 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
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There are many cars rowing away and printing tickets with consistency ! Me,I have said many times,,,I will NEVER give up my pushbuttons!
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: BiomedTechGuy]
#2736673
01/25/20 11:08 PM
01/25/20 11:08 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 100 Louisiana
BiomedTechGuy
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Well bad and good news... Bad news is I bought the Weiand intake sight unseen, and the mods made to it, especially where material was removed, was done far too "roughly", too aggressively, and looked rushed. The good news is that the other Weiand, same model, that was supposed to be "unmodified" but actually has had the intake runners radiused and blended to the plenum floor, and that was done VERY nicely, and those are the only mods apparently done, that intake is on its way to me. I sent the other one back the day after I got it. As much as I wanted one, it only took a minute or 2 for me to know that the first one shipped was just not for me. So when the nicer one comes in I'll post a few pix. Here's the pix of it that I received before I gave the ok to ship: (This is the one I am getting)
Last edited by BiomedTechGuy; 01/25/20 11:12 PM.
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#2736677
01/25/20 11:18 PM
01/25/20 11:18 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 100 Louisiana
BiomedTechGuy
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A stick is way cool and fun. But for most people it turns a competitive car into a mere toy. A stick behind a 540" wedge will, at least for most people, make the car more dangerous and less competitive. But, some find it more fun that an auto. We all have to pick our priorities.
Oh for crying out loud Dave. I mean this in the kindest most respectful way, but you are bass-ackwards on that toy thing. Statements like that make it all the more fun to take my stick car out and whoop up on somebody driving with one of those slippery, slimy, stinky, fluid couplings. It's the automatic that's a toy. Like a videogame. Just point the car down the track, release a button, do your knitting, call your girlfriend, what ever, while the car does all the work, until you reach the finish line. Driving a manual transmission car actually gives you a skill to master. And it's very gratifying when you get it right! Assuming that an automatic car and a stick car are both well set up and driven by a highly skilled operator, there is no discernible performance or safety difference. True, everything is easier with the automatic, and most racers will default to more easy instead of more fun. But if the OP here is a dedicated stick man, he'll do more work and have more fun. VERITAS! YES! Way more fun. Whatever the "disadvantages" of a manual transmission are, I accept that I will have to do whatever I can to overcome them. For me, there is NOTHING worth giving up me rowing the gears!
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Weiand P3690982 6bbl intake HAS ARRIVED!
[Re: BiomedTechGuy]
#2738197
01/30/20 07:27 PM
01/30/20 07:27 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 100 Louisiana
BiomedTechGuy
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Well, the long debated, long awaited Weiand 6bbl intake came in today, and this one is a BEAUTY! The only mods I can see are all of the runners have been VERY nicely radiused and blended into the plenum floor. Nice, smooth, gradual curves now replace the sharp 90° edges of the original casting. This has been about a year in the making, with a lot of close calls, but when I finally committed to buy one, the first one was really hacked up. I'm grateful that the seller took that one back and sent me this gorgeous example. Eventually, I may get this bad boy polished, but now it's time for some measurements and calculations, and the next big step will be to see for myself that this intake with the carbs on top will actually FIT under the hood with my N96 Air Grabber.
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Re: Weiand P3690982 6bbl intake HAS ARRIVED!
[Re: BiomedTechGuy]
#2779302
05/28/20 11:15 PM
05/28/20 11:15 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 100 Louisiana
BiomedTechGuy
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Updates: It's been a LONG time coming, but when I had this similar thought, and the shop owner shared his concerns, not knowing my thoughts, I couldn't really find fault in his delaying the installation of numerous parts and "systems" in my Roadrunner when we were on the same page. The concern was his shop getting sick or being forced to shutdown due to COVID-19. Well I finally have a start date in early June, and he's got a lot of work to do: A complete front suspension system, and K-member, all QA1 except for the UCAs which are SPC for maximum adjustability. Wraptor serpentine belt and accessory system, including the supplied A/C compressor, to go with the Vintage Air setup. 4 wheel 6 piston calipers and master cylinder, all Wilwood, new stainless hard lines, Assassin traction bars, Calvert split mono leaf springs and sliders. Hydramax hydraulic throwout bearing and HitMaster launch control system. Dakota Digital gauges. Line lock. Borgeson power steering box. I'm going to see if I can test fit the Weiand, and if it fits as I expected, I'll go ahead and do the install. I'm going to Carlisle for the first time, and it sure would be nice to have the Weiand along with all of the other new goodies. I'm also going to move up the line for the BME block by giving my builder a deposit.
Last edited by BiomedTechGuy; 05/28/20 11:16 PM.
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Weiand P3690982 6bbl does NOT FIT N96 Air Grabber
[Re: SCATPACK 1]
#2780096
05/31/20 03:54 PM
05/31/20 03:54 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 100 Louisiana
BiomedTechGuy
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Bio You do have another option for the six pack sset up. IF yu can find the Weiand SS intake, it can be made to fit with the N96 . A friend ran a 70 RR 440 6 pak 4 speed in Super Stock back in the day. To get the hood to close, he did some trimming to the black plastic(fiberglass or what ever it was made of) adapter that mounts to the hood. He pulled the radiator and water pump and then shut the hood so he could see where it needed to be trimmed and kept whittling on it until he could shut the hood all the way. You have a Beautiful car. Just an FYI, I could never get the drag radials to hook up behind my 440 4 seed challenger. IT DOESN'T FIT!I don't see how it could have possibly fit under the N96 hood, AT ALL, much less with ANY kind of version of the factory N96 airbox. I have 3½" from the surface of the Weiand to the sheet metal open square hole edge of the N96 hood where the air grabber door goes. It's 4½" from the base edge of the center carb to the top of the choke airhorn. Even if I were to use a 3" thick K-member spacer to raise the body relative to the engine, that would cause issues with the steering links and oil pan, and who knows what else. The ONLY way I can see being able to use the Weiand 6bbl SS intake and a N96 hood would be to have it heavily modified by raising the cowl hump of the hood several inches. An A-12 style scoop would probably work. I'M SO DISAPPOINTED!
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Re: Weiand P3690982 6bbl does NOT FIT N96 Air Grabber
[Re: BiomedTechGuy]
#2780100
05/31/20 04:22 PM
05/31/20 04:22 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,387 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
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Got a big Hemi under my shaker hood......But I don't kid myself and try to keep things stock......You have to work it out and try some stuff with the willingness to change things to make it work....Most Mopar people just have to have them stock.....I like performance..It all depends on how far your willing to go. A low deck engine will give you a lot more room, so can an aftermarket k-member...
Last edited by Dragula; 05/31/20 04:26 PM.
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