540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber

EDIT: I went ahead and scratched an itch and bought a Weiand P3690982 6bbl low profile tunnel ram. Later in this thread, a forum member says that the Weiand will fit under a modded (trimmed) air box of a 70 N96 Roadrunner Air Grabber. CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THIS? I will be able to soon enough, but I'm asking. Thanks
I've read numerous outstanding posts, articles, reviews, and YouTube videos looking for options.
I'm looking for suggestions, warnings, direction, experience, LOTS of experience, like "WHAT IS IT LIKE DRIVING A 70 B-BODY WITH 600-700 HP and Torque provided by a NA 3x2 carbureted FIVE FOURTY ONE cu in stroker. Passon Performance 5 speed manual.
My "racing" is strictly Wednesday Test and Tune night and weekend, but my 70 Roadrunner is mostly for local monthly cruise in car shows and a couple of longer distance shows I drive to, like the 2 hour each way trip to the Battleship Alabama, Wellborn Museum, and I may do a Mopar Road Trip like their Mopar only "Power Tour". EVERY year I will drive up and down the Mississippi Gulf Coast for an ENTIRE WEEK at Cruisin the Coast, lots of stop and go traffic.
I have a trailer if the trip is too far, or until I am comfortable that I'm not likely to break anything.
Aluminum aftermarket block, solid FLAT TAPPET cam, minimal chance of breakage, minimal maintenance. Power output will be whatever it is within the boundaries set forth: So here are the things I will NOT debate or compromise on: 3x2 Promax modded Holley carbs and any aluminum intake that will allow me to keep the N96 Air Grabber setup on my 70 Roadrunner. If I have to trim it, bend it, cut it, that's OK, but I want a functional Air Grabber. I'm keeping the Passon 5 speed. It's supposed to be able to EASILY handle 700 continuous ft lbs of torque.
So that's basically it. Street friendly, but an aftermarket aluminum block to save weight, add a major WOW factor, and most importantly I'm not going to be worried about splitting a block in the case of a factory block walking its upper limits. I don't mind checking lash a couple of times a year, and turning a few screws on my 6bbl. I would love to move to the F&B direct port injection 3x2 throttle body injection system in the future, which will increase CFM from 1350 (2bbl) up to 2,400 CFM.
No solid rollers because I don't want to worry about them coming apart or having to be rebuilt, and I don't expect to have excessive spring pressure, so solid flat tappet lifters should work fine.
I'm guessing the only 2 intakes to consider that will work within my 3x2 and N96 hood boundaries is the Indy ModMan and the Edelbrock/Chrysler aluminum 6bbl intake.
Thanks for your help and I await your replies!

My all time favourite year/colour RR Bio, (440rb from B bods only).....nice to see it properly.

First off, you aren't going to do much satisfactory racing, nor are you going to hurt any drive train parts with those tires on the rear. In fact, they will be down right dangerous in normal driving. Especially with a stick.

Changing over to drag radials will be the only way that you will be able to use the secondaries on your 6 bbl anywhere under about 75MPH. Traction will be that compromised in my experience.

When I built my first 500" wedge, as I was tuning and tweeking it, I decided to kick it down into passing gear at about 50MPH. The rear broke loose and before I could blink, the thing was heading for the ditch. Thankfully, there was no oncoming traffic and the shoulders were smooth.

A stick is way cool and fun. But for most people it turns a competitive car into a mere toy. A stick behind a 540" wedge will, at least for most people, make the car more dangerous and less competitive. But, some find it more fun that an auto. We all have to pick our priorities.

I had the exact opposite results with M/T ET Street Radials compared to the M/T ET Street bias ply tires of the same size tires on the same size rims, I've knock the radials loose more than once at 55+ MPH passing without downshifting when the six pack outer carbs came open, not so with the ET street Bias ply tires, ever
I would run 18 to 20 lbs. n the radials and the same pressure in the bias plys unless I was going to race it and I would run them at 10 to 12 lbs. then.

I know it is very difficult to fit what you want under the stock hood Just had a thought after staring at your hood.......the center part of the hood where it is raised could be cut,sectioned and raised to accommodate a nice performing intake.You could get another steel hood or fiberglass hinged hood to make it work.
I never tried radials either even with the possible advantages they may have. My street tire is the MT E/T Street 16.5 x 31 and I just made them last 4 seasons. You might have to compromise and have 2 sets of rear tires. My slicks are 10.5 x 29.5 and do work better at the track than the ET's. But they do hook on a prepped surface.

Thanks for the replies.
I realize the current 315/35/17 Toyo Proxes TQ drag radials are not ideal for the track. I am having traction problems now with my warmed over 440+6bbl. They are my "I just ordered 9" aluminum Rallye wheels (8" wide front) and let me guess what the widest drag radial will fit" tires, and they are going to be on those wheels as I add: Hydramax hydraulic throwout bearing, HitMaster launch control system, Calvert split mono leaf springs, Assassin traction bars, sliders, and double adjustable Viking rear shocks.
Once all of my new rear suspension and traction aids are in place, and the line lock is going in in February along with a new QA1 K-member and front suspension I've owned for over a year, and 4 wheel 6 caliper Wilwood disc brakes, and the rear suspension asap (by February if I can swing the $$$). That would be ideal if I can get the rear suspension installed along with everything else.
Then I'll look at what I have traction wise. I expect them to work with my current motor. Bias ply MT drag tires are likely going to be my track only attempt to get hooked, either sooner if all of those additions fail to hook with my current motor and tires, but certainly with a 6XX-7XX HP and torque stroker motor. If I hook up with the 315s, I may try the 345/40/17s next anyway.

I'm also hoping that the same complete rear suspension redo and traction aids will keep me from going sideways when the outboard carbs open on the street once the stroker is in (The HitMaster, which only mainly affects the launch, could be used to soften clutch engagement on every shift, say 1st-3rd)
I'm probably going to have to get a dual disc clutch...

My advice is to build it on the mild side. Keep the compression at 10:1 or a bit less and use a standard port head such as the TF 240. I'd keep the cam on the small side too, maybe something in the 250 range. Your chassis isn't going to handle a lot of power so no reason to build something that isn't any fun to drive. Just build a big smooth torque monster and enjoy it. I'm not even sure I'd use a solid flat tappet, why not a hyd flat tappet? You aren't going to spin that thing past 6000 rpm without killing yourself so a hyd flat tappet will work just fine.

One thing about all those new and adjustable pieces in the rear; It will take a bunch of experimentation to find what works and what doesn't. Which means a lot of wear and tear because you can't baby it out of the hole at all. In order to find out what works, you have to hit it hard EVERY time. Then make a change and hit it again. Just stop and think for a moment how many adjustments you have back there and how many combinations. I personally have busted more parts testing that I ever have racing.

And the settings for one kind of tires will be different than for another set. Heck, I need to change my Cal-Trac settings for a prepped vs un-prepped track with the same tires, let alone changing the type of tire, too. Maybe your electronic controls will make that simpler for you. I have no experience with that. How do they work on a carbureted car? Pull timing? What other ways do they help with traction?

Trying to hold down the kind of power a 540 Mopar makes is a real chore.

Thanks AndyF. Always good to hear from you.
Dave, the HitMaster is a manual transmission clutch hit/slip controller that requires a hydraulic throwout bearing. It's a more advanced version of the mechanical clutch system called the Clutch Tamer.
I do need to turn enough RPMs to clear 1320 feet in 4th gear. I'd like to not have to run too tall of a tire to get there, and I have a 4.10 but my 5th gear makes that a great highway ride. I still have the 3.54 gears too.

W/r/t Indy ModMan and the Edelbrock/Chrysler aluminum 6bbl intake
Those are very different.
The Eddy is a 180° dual plane type, and restrictive as to CFM available per cylinder to 3 bbls.: each intake port in turn only draws from 1 side of the manifold. I also just found some reviews about how complex re-jetting is with major engine mods.
The ModMan is an open shoebox; a tunnel ram with very short runners and a smaller plenum.

Bio
You do have another option for the six pack sset up. IF yu can find the Weiand SS intake, it can be made to fit with the N96 . A friend ran a 70 RR 440 6 pak 4 speed in Super Stock back in the day. To get the hood to close, he did some trimming to the black plastic(fiberglass or what ever it was made of) adapter that mounts to the hood. He pulled the radiator and water pump and then shut the hood so he could see where it needed to be trimmed and kept whittling on it until he could shut the hood all the way.
You have a Beautiful car.
Just an FYI, I could never get the drag radials to hook up behind my 440 4 seed challenger.

I have some comments on the Weiand on my site here:
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/weiand.htm

Thank you for the kind remarks.
You may be responsible for sending me back into madness!! Let me explain...
I am haunted by the Weiand P3690982 6bbl intake. To me, it's a thing of beauty and function. I came very close to buying one, a few months ago, and just thinking about it kept me awake at night. I was just offered another one that is very clean, and already has the Chrysler Performance bulletin mods done to it...
I thought, FOR SURE, that it would NOT FIT even with a modified N96 Air Grabber.
Let me address my current state of my Air Grabber, and how important it is to me. I have always thought the trap door style vacuum actuated Air Grabber is the, THE most awesome fresh air setup of the ENTIRE muscle car era! Not only does it function well, but it looks amazing, fully deployed and in the act of opening. I have the composite material air box off of a 70 Roadrunner, and a few other parts. There is still quite a bit I need to complete it. I sold my non-N96 hood because I'd never go back to that and I have the hood you see, bought new from AMD and beautifully paint matched to my car.
So PLEASE, in as much detail as possible, tell me that you know for sure that the N96 setup can be used with the Weiand, and a sealed airbox albeit modified can also be part of that assembly, and I will go ahead and get the Weiand, because honestly, that is the intake I really want. The Weiand also looks awesome set up with the F&B 3x2 throttle body direct port injection system, and the DPI completely eliminates the inherent fuel droplet/distribution/ puddling issues and has GOT to be a great performing combination, although I would start with my Promax modded Holley 2bbl carbs.
I anxiously await your reply.

It's great reading, and I found it months ago searching for everything I could find on the various 6bbl intake manifold options. I almost have it committed to memory. I even found the ONE copy of the one edition year Mopar Performance manual that has all of the notes, bulletins, drawings, and upgrades/mods for the Edelbrock STR series and the Weiand intakes.
Thanks

Well I couldn't wait, and I am getting the already modded Weiand P3690982 6bbl intake.
I'm pretty excited. I may even try it on my current motor.
Promax modded Holley 2bbl carbs, Carter M6903 high volume mech fuel pump
Purple Stripe 292°/.509 hydraulic flat tappet cam, CompCams lifters, springs, locks, and retainers
Iron 1978 452 heads, TTi 1&7/8" headers Passson 5 speed 4.10 gears.
Installing in February QA1 K-member and front suspension, 4 wheel 6 piston Wilwood disc brakes and line lock
Wraptor serpentine belt and accessory system.
Coming asap: new leaf springs, sliders, Assassin traction bars and double adjustable Viking rear shocks
I already have a Hydramax hydraulic throwout bearing, and I am going to get the HitMaster launch control system
Either chrome molly or aluminum driveshaft

Not gonna be much help for you, but I have the parts to assemble a 540" hemi for my dad's 4 speed road runner. Very similar to what you're after, drive it anywhere, 18 spline 4 speed, his has AC, 3.54 Dana, etc.
My plan for the bottom end was/is a World block, K1 4.25" crank, Molnar rods, 10:1 Diamond pistons, stock style hemi/six pack oil pan.
Stock street hemi Vanke modded intake w/ a pair of older Carter 750 cfm AFB carbs.
Brand new but unported Edelbrock casting hemi heads...not the newer Vic Jr. heads.
Custom spec'd hydraulic roller cam from Dwayne Porter that's around 250° @ .050".
My intent was to let the mild cam and unported heads keep the power limited to the 600 hp ballpark for a nice all around driver.

I have all the parts in the shop for it...been there for several years now. Dad has basically decided to leave the car alone since he loves the way the 440 six pack in it runs and doesn't think he needs anything more than what it already has.

Chip your Dad's a smart man.

I see a number of posts here and elsewhere that lean towards keeping engines mild or stock. I've seen so many engines built close to, at, or above the level I plan I couldn't count them all. I understand that simpler, more stock, less radical is easier, but I have a Dodge Caravan for my daily driver, and unless the stroker is prone to leave me stranded, I think I would enjoy it a lot more than the warmed over 440+6bbl I have now.

That's the nice thing about displacement, even when built mild enough for your grandmother it will still make enough torque to scare the $hit out of you if applied indiscriminately.

My 9:1 MP509 cammed 493 wedge made over 500 ft/lbs between 2000 and 5000, 600 peak @ 4000.

Kevin

NICE!!

Those throttle bodies are somewhat shorter than carbs. That would help in you quest to use that intake with the N96 airbox

"over 500 ft/lbs between 2000 and 5000" THAT is an enviable torque band, and great for a mostly street car, like mine
9:1 seems low, especially with aluminum heads, unless you are running regular vs 91-93 octane pump gas
I will want a little more CR than 9:1 but I certainly don't want to have any problems with premium pump gas
I'm looking for my stroker to displace around 540 cu in because I'm only building one, and running at the upper limits of a factory block (600-700HP) and trying to get a good factory block to do it with (I'm storing my current short block when the stroker goes in) I figure an aftermarket block is going to be great peace of mind, and I may as well make it aluminum, and the one I want allows for a 4.50 stroke without clearancing, has a 4.50 bore (w/room for a little more bore). So I figure a 4.25 stroke and 4.50 bore will have great torque and good HP with easy to live with cam and valvetrain.

I had to use a reverse dome piston to get it there, 34cc dish IIRC. Runs great on regular. OOTB RPM heads with a good valve job.

I used 1.7 rockers so the .509 lift became 576. It still had the same choppy idle as a 509 cam in a 440 does which I thought the extra 53 cubes would soften up. I expected it it to be a dog under 3000 judging by how it sounded. Imagine my surprise.

That's the magic of displacement.

If I were to do it again I would have Dwayne Porter spec me something a little less choppy, more EFI friendly in the idle dept.

Kevin

With an aftermarket block, why stop at 4.25 stroke?

572ci /4.5x4.5 bolts together just the same, but oil pickup may need to go external
(which, once you have the aftermarket block is really easy given most aftermarket blocks have
provisions for that built in).....Unless the appearance of the oil line is not desirable, which is understandable.

There are even shelf/stocking pistons for 572, both hemi and wedge with normal street compression ratios.

Iron 1978 452 heads

WHY?

That's what was on it when I bought it. Hardened valve seats I assume is why.
I'll be using TrickFlow 270s.

Thanks for the reply.
Lower piston speed w/the .25 shorter stroke.
Regarding the pistons being readily available, the bore of my planned 541 is the same 4.50 as a 572, so unless the stroke changes the piston, which I could see the 572 maybe having shorter pistons or the rings in a different place, but maybe not? the pistons should be the same.

In the combos I have been lucky enough to be able to study, a 7.100 big block Chevy rod is usually used in both.

If you wanted to run a regular shelf BBC rod (meaning not custom length), then 540 pistons will have a taller compression height
than 572 parts. Along the lines of street engine use, this will give you a taller and more stable piston which has the side effect of being
slightly heavier, nothing to worry about.

A person could get around this if connecting rods longer than 7.100 were readily available on the shelf, but alas that isn't so.

On the other hand a 572 with 7.100 rods is well within the known safe zone for a street engine, as it has the same rod to stroke ratio as a Pontiac 455,
and is still slightly higher than a Chevy 454.

Indy (diamond) is the path of least resistance for 572 shelf pistons, they usually have them on hand for crate engines. And maybe they are nicer to deal with now!
They may not be perfect in every way, or have the latest awesome tiny metric rings.

Just wondered why and am not trying to be persuasive....

can't help on the whole 6 pack thing...I have a brand new setup collecting dust but not sure if I will ever use it. I keep collecting
parts for an eventual project, but who knows if it will ever happen.

Best of luck in any case

I’ll like the Trick Flow 270 heads, I use them on a 558 RB it’s a great low revving street/strip engine.
Mine has max hp at 58-5900 rpm and max torq at 4500 rpm with a single plane and a comp solid roller (275/282 deg. and 657/659 lift).

Keep in mind that the 270 heads will raise the intake since the runners are extended, I don’t remember how much but I guess around 1/2 inch higher ...

Thanks guys.
I guess another reason why I prefer the 4.25 vs 4.50 stroke is I'm keeping my 5 speed Passon Performance transmission and it's rated (conservatively) for 700 continuous ft lbs of torque. If I start shredding it, there aren't many 3 pedal options, and a Jerico or Lenco would not be much fun on the street, as far as I know.
I'm concerned about going too far with the build, making it into so much more than I had intended that I enjoy it less than what I have now.

Thanks for that info/reminder.
I'm a fiend for the Air Grabber. I have GOT to keep it!
I have thought about the possibility of raising the raised part of my hood. It would take a really good body and paint guy but I know one.
I just really don't want to have to go through the cost and time.
If the Weiand turns out not to fit, I will have to sell it and "fall back" to the ModMan.

That continous torque concern is very traction dependent.

Kevin

Well You have the intake now. So prove it to your self this Saturday.
Take the aircleaner assembly off your current 6 pack set up and shut the hood wih the AiGrapper open. If you can meaure how far below th ehood the stock set up is.
Put your Weiand set up on your motor with out the air cleaner and slowly shut the hood with the airgrabber open. measure the difference.
I know for a fact my friend ran that set up on his original 70 RR 4440 6 barrel with the factory carbs and he had to make the modifications that are show in the lin above to get it to run right. I wish I still had the pictures. His air box was still in place attached to the hood but had been trimmed to get the hood to shut completely.
He also had the factory 906 heads with standard port location. I am not certain it will work with the Trick Flow or Edelbrock raised intake port heads. That is why I suggested you try it wothout the aircleaner in place first.

That are shown in the lin above?
First, thanks for the reply. Do you mean removing the water pump and radiator and trimming the airbox?
Here is your other post:

And yes, I have committed to the Weiand, sent payment, and I'll get it next week sometime, so next weekend would be the earliest I could try it.
Your post about it fitting is why I bought it, and me wanting one, of course. I'm also buying an A12 6bbl base, rubber seal, and air cleaner top in case I can use that to help my situation. It's cheap enough and in great shape, so if I don't need it, I'll sell it to someone else.

I got an Indy Dual Plane intake and Dominator carb under my Shaker in the Cuda. I had to drop the K, fab up a drop base, and fab up an air cleaner lid. The air cleaner lid basically touches the inside of the Shaker bubble, but it is all under there and looks stock.

You can see the lid through the Shaker grills.




Are you good with fabrication?

Am I good with fabrication? Not really.
I'm counting on being able to work with trimming the airbox, and I have an A12 base, seal, and filter top coming that may help if I need a hybrid Air Grabber setup.
I'm going to have a QA1 K-member and front suspension system installed in February. Any suggestions? Trick Flow 270s are coming when I get my stroker motor built. They are going to lift the intake a bit from what I'm reading.

270 Trick Flows are Max Wedge ports, is that going to work with the intake you bought ?

The Weiand 6bbl intake has been opened up to Max Wedge port size by others who have had that combination.
I welcome any input from anyone who has had the Weiand intake.
I am going to try it on my current setup 440 notched flat top factory pistons, forged steel crank heavy rods, 1&7/8" TTi headers, 292°/.509 Purple Stripe cam, CompCams springs, hydraulic flat tappet lifters, 10° locks and retainers, new stock pushrods, stock rocker arms and shafts. 4.10 gears, Passon a855 5 speed. It came with the circa 1978 452 iron heads, I guess because they have hardened valve seats.
If my stroker motor was going to have Trick Flow 240s, which it was before I decided to use an aftermarket aluminum block and go "big" on displacement, I would get the 240s asap and try them on my current 440.

Well the Weiand P3690982 6bbl intake is on its way to me. Once again, like before when I was negotiating buying one, except now I actually HAVE bought it, if I wake up at night I'm thinking about it, or rereading posts about it. Yep, I've got it bad for that intake.
A few observations:
There are people I've spoken to who have been using one for over 10 years. The majority of opinions or experiences with those who have used it are very positive! The Indy ModMan with the 6bbl top is pretty good too, especially for a big stroker motor.
BOTH the Weiand and the Indy ModMan have been setup with the F&B direct port injection 3x2 throttle plate EFI system.

A couple of questions please!
1: Anyone with first hand experience with the Weiand 6bbl intake, what made it work BEST for you, and include some info about your engine.
2: Who has started using the Weiand with the factory Holley 2bbl carbs and then switched to the 3x 500 CFM Holley mechanical carbs with accelerator pumps, and what was the difference? Info on your engine also please.
3: Has M Mosely with the awesome Barracuda and the F&B Weiand EVER run that engine yet?
4: Anyone switch to a 3x2 topped ModMan from a properly working Weiand, and what was that like, and what size engine, cam, etc.

I found out today that this intake is "new" except for the mods Chrysler Performance made, which I was told does not include one of the 3 "popsicle stick" dams, but includes the other 2, the tapered shaved area by one throttle bore, and something I haven't read about, the center carb bores in the top being slightly fluted downwards, like an inverted EFI stack.

Pix upon delivery will follow. Please reply with any pertinent information, and thanks to ALL who replied!

I'm running a mild 493" RB with 10.2 to 1 (Cranks 200 psi & runs on 91 octane), Indy EZ non-max wedge port heads that flow 345" at .600 on the intake, a well-massaged aluminum 6pack intake, a Porter spec'd mild solid roller with non-needle bearing axle lifters and the old DC mechanical 2bbl carbs. The pistons and pins are below 540grms and it has 7.1 inch steel rods.

It pulls hard to 6700 rpm, gets nearly 14mpg all day long on the freeway at 70mph with 4.10's and the Passon and it pulls away from Hellcats whether from a stop or on the freeway. Everything fits under the shaker hood although it's a tight fit. I guess my point is, you don't need to get too fancy to accomplish your goals. Keep it simple. It's the combination.

Cool car jbc426. love the stance

Under-shaker LED strip lighting?

(I was going to say "mood lighting" but not sure if it changes with moods)

Just when I thought I had seen everything

Very nice E body

Wow, Beautiful Cuda !

Thanks jbc426.

The 3 intakes that are the best 3 for me to choose from are: the factory Edelbrock/Chrysler aluminum 6bbl dual plane, the Weiand P3690982 6bbl low profile tunnel ram, and the Indy ModMan w/3x2bbl top.
I have 2 of them now, and the Indy ModMan is likely to be available for the rest of my life, so I'm at peace with that.
I am excited to see what I can do with the Weiand once I make sure it fits.

I'd really like the details of what "well massaged" means regarding your Edelbrock/Chrysler aluminum 6bbl intake. I have considered doing a knife edge Vanke modification to the dual plane.

I sent it to Dave Hughes, and he took it as far as they currently know how too. It flows a lot of air now. In fact, there is a back to back comparission between the 6 pack and a single 4 bbl intake on Hughes Dyno Page for the motor.

I initially had my Indy EZ's done by them as well, but after a valvetrain instability issue with hydraulic rollers; I ended up having Dwayne Porter rebuild the heads and remove some epoxy from the roof of the intake ports just behind the Max Wedge bump and set them up for a mechanical roller.

If I were to experiment with another Edelbrock 6 pack intake, I would buy one from Wilson with their full competition porting.

As it is now, I'm running a "350 CFM" center carb on my set-up. I do have a new "500 CFM" center carb sitting on my work bench to try some day, but I get amazingly good mileage and responsiveness with the "350 CFM" carb now. It already has plenty of power for what I use it for.

Thanks again for the reply! I will look up the 4bbl vs 6bbl Huges comparison if I can find it. Chances are I've seen it before, but now I have some perspective knowing it's yours. I have seen some using the 3x 500 CFM mech+accelerator pump carbs, and some say it's a big improvement and others not much difference.

I've read it before. Great results and very encouraging! I decided long ago that the one thing my V-code Roadrunner would ALWAYS have is 3x2 induction, regardless of any "handicap". Turns out, not much handicap for the range I'm looking for.
Here's the link: http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/6bigblockstroker6pakdynotest7279.php

Oh for crying out loud Dave. I mean this in the kindest most respectful way, but you are bass-ackwards on that toy thing. Statements like that make it all the more fun to take my stick car out and whoop up on somebody driving with one of those slippery, slimy, stinky, fluid couplings.
It's the automatic that's a toy. Like a videogame. Just point the car down the track, release a button, do your knitting, call your girlfriend, what ever, while the car does all the work, until you reach the finish line. Driving a manual transmission car actually gives you a skill to master. And it's very gratifying when you get it right!

Assuming that an automatic car and a stick car are both well set up and driven by a highly skilled operator, there is no discernible performance or safety difference. True, everything is easier with the automatic, and most racers will default to more easy instead of more fun. But if the OP here is a dedicated stick man, he'll do more work and have more fun.

He will definitely work on it more also Joel, been there done that more than once I love 4 speed cars but I like winning races with less work and broken or worn out parts also

http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/3dynotest684hp500cid6pack4bbljcross012007.php

I have since sent the intake back to them, and the took it as far as they are able ato at this point. I did make other changes to the motor but have not dyno'd it again for a comparison.

I'll double down on my statement;

"A stick is way cool and fun. But for most people it turns a competitive car into a mere toy. A stick behind a 540" wedge will, at least for most people, make the car more dangerous and less competitive. But, some find it more fun that an auto. We all have to pick our priorities."

Joel, you may be one of the few that will BEAT the heck out of your car (called practice) until you get good at rowing the boat and get and keep all of the EQUIPMENT in perfect working order, but most owners are not doing either.

I did not imply in my statement that it couldn't be done. I said, and stand by it, that for most people, a stick turns a competitive car into a mere toy. That was true back when our muscle cars were new and is still true today with the Hellcats.

There are many cars rowing away and printing tickets with consistency ! Me,I have said many times,,,I will NEVER give up my pushbuttons!

Well bad and good news...
Bad news is I bought the Weiand intake sight unseen, and the mods made to it, especially where material was removed, was done far too "roughly", too aggressively, and looked rushed.
The good news is that the other Weiand, same model, that was supposed to be "unmodified" but actually has had the intake runners radiused and blended to the plenum floor, and that was done VERY nicely, and those are the only mods apparently done, that intake is on its way to me. I sent the other one back the day after I got it. As much as I wanted one, it only took a minute or 2 for me to know that the first one shipped was just not for me.
So when the nicer one comes in I'll post a few pix.
Here's the pix of it that I received before I gave the ok to ship: (This is the one I am getting)

VERITAS! YES! Way more fun. Whatever the "disadvantages" of a manual transmission are, I accept that I will have to do whatever I can to overcome them. For me, there is NOTHING worth giving up me rowing the gears!

Well, the long debated, long awaited Weiand 6bbl intake came in today, and this one is a BEAUTY!
The only mods I can see are all of the runners have been VERY nicely radiused and blended into the plenum floor. Nice, smooth, gradual curves now replace the sharp 90° edges of the original casting.
This has been about a year in the making, with a lot of close calls, but when I finally committed to buy one, the first one was really hacked up. I'm grateful that the seller took that one back and sent me this gorgeous example.
Eventually, I may get this bad boy polished, but now it's time for some measurements and calculations, and the next big step will be to see for myself that this intake with the carbs on top will actually FIT under the hood with my N96 Air Grabber.

Updates:
It's been a LONG time coming, but when I had this similar thought, and the shop owner shared his concerns, not knowing my thoughts, I couldn't really find fault in his delaying the installation of numerous parts and "systems" in my Roadrunner when we were on the same page. The concern was his shop getting sick or being forced to shutdown due to COVID-19.
Well I finally have a start date in early June, and he's got a lot of work to do: A complete front suspension system, and K-member, all QA1 except for the UCAs which are SPC for maximum adjustability. Wraptor serpentine belt and accessory system, including the supplied A/C compressor, to go with the Vintage Air setup. 4 wheel 6 piston calipers and master cylinder, all Wilwood, new stainless hard lines, Assassin traction bars, Calvert split mono leaf springs and sliders. Hydramax hydraulic throwout bearing and HitMaster launch control system. Dakota Digital gauges. Line lock. Borgeson power steering box.
I'm going to see if I can test fit the Weiand, and if it fits as I expected, I'll go ahead and do the install.
I'm going to Carlisle for the first time, and it sure would be nice to have the Weiand along with all of the other new goodies.
I'm also going to move up the line for the BME block by giving my builder a deposit.

IT DOESN'T FIT!
I don't see how it could have possibly fit under the N96 hood, AT ALL, much less with ANY kind of version of the factory N96 airbox.
I have 3½" from the surface of the Weiand to the sheet metal open square hole edge of the N96 hood where the air grabber door goes. It's 4½" from the base edge of the center carb to the top of the choke airhorn. Even if I were to use a 3" thick K-member spacer to raise the body relative to the engine, that would cause issues with the steering links and oil pan, and who knows what else.
The ONLY way I can see being able to use the Weiand 6bbl SS intake and a N96 hood would be to have it heavily modified by raising the cowl hump of the hood several inches. An A-12 style scoop would probably work.
I'M SO DISAPPOINTED!

Got a big Hemi under my shaker hood......But I don't kid myself and try to keep things stock......You have to work it out and try some stuff with the willingness to change things to make it work....Most Mopar people just have to have them stock.....I like performance..It all depends on how far your willing to go. A low deck engine will give you a lot more room, so can an aftermarket k-member...

What is this BME block? Is that Bill Miller Engr.?
Maybe it is time for a 400 stroker motor with your top end

Thanks for the replies...
I had tortured my mind over the Weiand intake for at least a year, since I saw one with the F&B direct port injection 3x2 setup. I asked on this forum if the Weiand would fit, and was told in 2 separate posts by the same guy that his friend he used to go to the track with had a 440, 70 Roadrunner, N96, and it fit, even with the airbox, but the airbox had to be trimmed.
So I bought one, and I'm happy to say it's a nice example of that intake, but the damn thing doesn't fit under my N96 hood.
Now I got the hood a few years ago from AMD, and it's been paint matched perfectly to my car. So I was expecting it to fit.
I'm going to have a QA1 K-member and front suspension system installed starting June 10th, along with a good bit of other parts and systems. I would consider ALL options related to that, like spacers, to raise the body relative to the engine, but I think to get 4" additional clearance is going to cause other problems that would make it a bad choice.
I want the N96 setup, and the Weiand intake, but the only way I can think to achieve that would be to raise the power bulge in my hood.
I'm open to suggestions.
Yes, the BME aluminum block is Bill Mitchell and the new blocks that they started making late 2019.

So I've considered my options, and I am looking into a "raised cowl" style 70 Roadrunner hood. Basically a 70 style power bulge hood with a flat top cowl, and insert the square Air Grabber door into it in a similar manner as the N96 hood. I'm looking for the cowl or power bulge to be wide enough to accommodate the factory oval air filter, and I will likely use an A12 fresh air base and hood seal to make it functional.

..bill MITCHELL

...regarding the intake,if cost is no object what about talking to Hogan to build you one?

Now what would make you think $$$MONEY$$$ was no object,,,,EH???

Yes, Bill Mitchell, auto complete strikes again, randomly sometimes it seems.
Who is Hogan? and I am NOT the "money no object" guy, but if a part, goal, or whatever is "the thing" I can rise to the occasion...

[img]https://www.hogansracingmanifolds.com/custom-intake-manifolds-2/chrysler-custom-intake-manifolds/[/img]

Thanks. I've seen those before. That's not the theme or the direction I am going for.
A very long story short, I want my V-code Roadrunner to be a serious kick ass street and track car. I realize that when your goals are street and track, that both venues will be compromised. One thing that I absolutely will NOT EVER consider is ANY intake that isn't a "3x2" something. My intake choices are the aluminum dual plane Edelbrock/Chrysler 6bbl I have now, the Weiand intake that I have just test fitted, or the Indy ModMan rectangular aluminum box.
Honestly, the ModMan intake would get me a single plane AND fit under my current N96 hood, but it's an ugly intake IMO.
I really want to run the Weiand. I am going to see how my current motor and the Weiand pair up, but I may not install the Weiand "permanently" until I get it opened up to Max Wedge ports for the TrickFlow 270s on the 540 stroker. That would be when I need a new hood. OTOH I may really like the way my current warmed over 440 runs with it, so that may step up the timeline for the new hood.
If I ever want more flow, performance, and reliability than I get with the Promax modded Holley carbs, I'll go to the F&B 3x2 direct port injection system. I can't see jumping straight to the F&B, BUT that may make sense IF the much shorter throttle bodies can fit under my CURRENT hood. More measuring to do....

I built a low deck pump gas 400 stroker(511 C.I.) low compression six pack motor to race the black guys on the streets in Los Angles, I put it in a 1971 Duster that ended up weighing 3450 Lbs. with me in it and it ran 10.30s with the air cleaners on (stack two elements on top of each other ) through the full 3.0 inch exhaust hooked up exiting at the rear bumper It was fun
Six packs rule But their not the fastest combination out there

@GomangoCuda, as it turns out, that may be the ONLY way I can use the Weiand 6bbl intake and my N96 hood. I'm going to see if I can get the height above the intake that the shorter throttle bodies and top plate take up, and see if there is a chance that will also allow some kind of air filter.
At minimum, I need to be able to use the A12 fresh air base and rubber hood seal I have in lieu of the N96 airbox and the metal oval air cleaner setup.
The answer begins with the height of the TBs, so I'll see if Bruce at F&B can give me that measurement.
You had the best idea regarding fit. By the time I buy a good quality fiberglass hood and have it painted, I may be better off spending the appx $4K on the F&B EFI and controller IF I can use my current hood, and sell my Edelbrock/Chrysler aluminum 6bbl intake and Promax modded Holley carbs. That combination of hood, paint, and selling the carbs and intake would be close to the cost of the F&B setup.

Actually I doubt that an A12 aircleaner will ever fit under any factory hood with the weiand intake no matter how short the throttle bodies are. The A12 base is the tallest of all the available air cleaners. It Is not dropped like all the rest. I have my doubts about fitting any kind of factory style air cleaner under your factory hood. Might not even fit with no air cleaner. Close the hood slowly. I have one of these intakes sitting on a shelf. Only place it will fit with a factory aircleaner.

Please keep in mind that the Weiand intake was designed over 45 years ago to run NHRA SuperStock F or G in a fiberglass hood car with no aircleaner. They did not care if it fit anything else. Paul Rossi said there was no reason to rev past 6500 rpm and that was with a stock stroke 440 and a .750 lift roller cam. Now days they use sheet metal intakes and rev 2000 rpm higher.

Since you want to keep your stock airgrabber hood, I think you would be better off to just put TF 240 heads on it with a Hughes modified Edelbrock Intake. Just sell that Weiand intake for a bundle. The only Six-pack intake that would flow enough for maxwedge size ports on a stroker engine is a sheet metal tunnelram or the big Indy tub and they aren't going to fit your hood either.

I suppose I should add that your airgrabber scoop is probably the smallest fresh air scoop Chrysler ever used and will likely restrict your engine somewhat no matter what heads or intake you decide on.

All good and appreciated info. You are correct, I measured today and while the F&B setup may fit, no air cleaner will, and putting a sock over the throttle bodies, with them shoved up against the hood isn't an option either.
Regarding the A12 base, that was my understanding regarding the "drop" but I got a good deal on it, a fiberglass orange painted cover, new rubber hood seal, and even the tube of glue for the hood seal, so if that isn't needed and I can use the Airbox that goes w/the 70 N96, well it will be one or the other.
I asked about the Indy 440-25, but I don't know if that would perform any better or as well as the Weiand, and it definitely doesn't look as nice, to me.
As far as the performance of the Weiand goes, I am going to have it ported and worked over, and brought to Max Wedge port size for the Trick Flow 270s that are going on the 540. Ultimately, unless it performs better than even I can imagine, with mods and all that my Promax modded Holley carbs can offer, I do plan on going to the F&B 3x2 EFI direct port injection system, and that can flow 1,900 to 2,400 CFM.
I already spoke with someone I trust who can do all that for me and has experience with all aspects of that including the injector bungs, and that would also allow for the kind of top notch ignition system I've always wanted.
Basically the biggest problems with the Weiand are nullified by the DPI, as it becomes a dry intake at that point.
I'm open to corrections should those assumptions be flawed, please comment.
Trick Flow 240s on a 540?? and a modded dual plane?? I am going to drive it on the street far far more than the track, but it "seems" to me like the dual plane, even modded, would be a HUGE cork holding back the sheer volume of a 540 cu in motor, and then 240s vs 270s would have a similar choking off effect.
Tell me where I'm wrong, I want to know what you think!
Thanks

I was having a problem with the anti spin spacer for my Hydramax hydraulic throwout bearing conversion kit, which has been resolved by machining it.
The point of this post is as my GOOD FORTUNE would have it, the same YouTube video that had some info on the Hydramax ALSO IS A STROKER RB MOTOR, AND HE'S RUNNING THE WEIAND 6BBL INTAKE! He really likes it and said it has performed well on his motor.
As far as the clearance goes, I'm going to have the best finish for appearance and factory hardware compatible fiberglass hood made with a "no peak line" or in other words a flat cowl "scoop" and incorporate the Air Grabber into the cowl.

Run the Modman. They work pretty decent with 2x4. No reason they wont with a good set of 3x2. The air cleaner going to cover most of it up anyway. Once it's a painted up with stock looking valve covers and oval air filter it'll look great. Less money. Less headache. Better performance. Easy to port to Max Wedge. It's a no brainer.
Doug

This is what you need, cut for a Low Deck
20200204_222103 by William Dewing, on Flickr

Problem is those intakes are for the small ports....Otherwise I would have one with three 2-barrel center carbs...

Why would you want to use 350CFM center carbs?
I have one set of the Holley mechanical six pacx over the counter sets that I need to fix (Massive corrosion on the throttle shafts in the bases) and put to use soon
Six packs rule

Thanks for the replies and suggestions.
I have resigned myself to just accepting that I will need a hood that will clear the Weiand.
I'm determined to run it, BUT before I buy a glass hood and flat, no peak line down the center, cowl scoop for clearance and so I can still have my 70 Air Grabber, I am going to put it on my warmed over 440 and see what happens.
Here's a picture of a 70 Roadrunner with a cowl AND an Air Grabber.
I'm not sure how tall a cowl I'll need, but I am not going any taller than neccessary, but that may be 5"

Because it has a squirter built in.....I have dyno'd engines with six packs on them, and without the squirter, there is a big lag in fuel to the engine at lower rpms with the engine vacuum needing to exceed the spring that holds the door closed.....Vacuum carbs and drag racing, for me at least, do not go well together...When the engine went into the car, this translated into crappy street manners...These were the best tuned siz pack carbs I had seen, and a typical 4150 950 four barrel was way better....Let alone the dual four setup he runs now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueC_4nAdSZ4

The Carb Shop in Ontario ,CA makes a set of six pack carbs out of the older 500 CFM race two barrels carbs to fit a stock six pack air cleaner with all three squirters working
I have worked on many stock six pack carbs and made them work without bogging, the key is the timing of the vacuum carbs opening and the setting the idle fuel mixture and fuel level on all three carbs so they don't bog

I don't have any bog problems, or lag problems with my factory Holley 6bbl carbs.
I had Promax go through them for peace of mind and I needed a screw hole in the accelerator pump diaphragm "clam shell" fixed. I had them use the correct Holley rebuild kit parts, and had them install the jetable plates and metering block, and the angled idle mixture screws equipped base plate in the rear carb, and "pretune" them on their dyno mule.
They ran good before I sent them in, but for my one man business schedule and the parts and repair I needed done, it made sense for me to let them do the work.
I will contact The Carb Shop and talk to them about that setup. Thanks.

EDIT: NOT "my" block. Thanks to the forum for the info!
What a difference a year makes...
First and foremost, THANK YOU ALL for the conversation and advice.
I see it as encouragement. The Bill Mitchell aluminum block is paid for, and that's as far as I've gotten. I've had a "vacation house" under construction and the thieving CONtractors and gypsy dope fiend "workers" plus the astronomical increase in materials has been a NIGHTMARE. It's now basically finished.
I'm hoping the ModMan fits under my N96 hood, and I'd like to run a taller than stock air cleaner. I may be best served with an A12 type scoop, the taller one that's a bit bigger than the factory scoop.
Some days, I just hope I can get the block built out w/in the next year or 2. Turning 60 at the beginning of 2022, having been to the funerals of 3 friends in 3 years, I know my time isn't infinite.
All of the parts and systems that I wrote about are installed, and the Calvert split mono leaf springs were a big improvement. It's funny how you can't really tell your leaf springs are worn out until you see the effects at the track. I have had ZERO time at the track to make any adjustments or even try out my HitMaster launch control.
The guy I mentioned that was using the Weiand on a stroker, with 3x 500 CFM 2bbl carbs he made, progressive mechanical linkage, has decided to go to a 2x4bbl because the Weiand (as has been mentioned here) is limiting his performance, in particular the RPM range.
It's come to the ModMan, Indy has a CNC program for Max Wedge port size, and they only charge about $100 to do it.
So I hope to make the time to be able to drive my Roadrunner again, get to the track and see what kind of times I can get with all the traction and strengthening aids that I had installed, see what the HitMaster and McLeod RXT dual disc clutch setup can do, and so on.
Again, thanks for all the replies and advice!

'tis a thing of beauty. Congrats on the purchase!

Looks like you'll probably need a Hemi K frame, and some Hemi motor mounts (or conversion mounts, or a motor plate)

I'm not familiar with the motor mounts to identify them by sight. I have a QA1 K-member installed, and I had spent extra last year on a pair of Mitey Mounts that have metal "T" shaped supports in the rubber to prevent breakage or excessive travel.
Are you saying this block has "Hemi motor mount" pads and those are different than RB/440 mounts?

That Block in the pics above has HEMI mounts. THe mount is the flat pad with three holes on each side of the block

I left a message with Bill Mitchell Products, but I don't doubt you.
I'll have to see what my options are. I certainly am not changing the QA1 K-member I just recently had installed. Maybe Mitey Mounts has something. I appreciate the heads up.
I'll follow up with any significant info from Bill Mitchell Products.

Hmm, look at the top row of head bolt holes. Isn't this in fact a Hemi block? That would sure explain the hemi mounts.

Wedge head bolt pattern.

Pic taken from BMP website. Notice the difference in how far the top head bolt hole is from the bore in both blocks. Also note the larger untapped upper head stud clearance holes in the hemi block. Now look at the pic from the OP.
Pretty sure that's a hemi block.

It occurs to me that he says he paid for a block not that he actually has one. Those pics he showed us may not actually be his block. Appears to be sitting in a machine shop. Could be anybody's shop even BMP's.

It is in the machine shop. I'll reach out to the builder and convey my concerns. Thanks guys.

Ask him if the upper head bolt holes go into the valley (hemi) or not (wedge). Or put a 440 gasket on it and see if holes line up.

The builder has assured me that it's a RB block from BMP. This isn't his first BMP build.
Check this one out...

That one is not a BMP block

Yes sir, that's exactly what I was attempting to communicate.

Hemi is also on the RB platform so the builder is correct, it is an RB.

It might be a good idea to ask the whoever the builder is why the new Wedge block doesn't have any
Wedge Motor Mount provisions (like the ones shown on this Wedge block)...........

There's that.....also noticeable are the HEMI oil drainback holes in the deck surface which help explain, but I don't want to get too technical....

Trying not to be harsh.....here is my cast iron garbage: Hemi in red....Wedge (machined off) in blue.

I mean, pretty sure that isn't a Wedge block he has there....but maybe it is an opportunity?

There are a couple six pack intakes available for Hemis.


And he said he wanted a 540 aluminum block, and it had to have a 6 pack. Well okay you can do that.

I don't think he said it absolutely had to be a Wedge, or did he?

As far as I know, there is nothing wrong with a 540 aluminum Hemi with a 6 pack

Make the most of it...just do that

You guys are GOOD!
I made a couple of calls, and that is a hemi block.
Maybe I should just wait until I get mine built out to post pix...
I'm sorry for long, drawn out, tedious threads, but it is taking so long and so much effort on my part to make this happen, that I find the engagement here on the different topics, questions, concerns, and just bouncing stuff off the forum REALLY helps motivate me and keeps my mind entertained, and my heart and soul happy enough to keep plugging away.
So, apologies for what may test your patience, or seem repetitive or nonsensical, it helps me keep on keeping on, until the glorious day when I can say "I made it, and here's the finished product"...

Aw man....no change of plans??? Just do the hemi with a 6 pack. Why not.

Kidding.

Keep the threads going.

What the He11 are you apologizing for? I may hold the record for long, drawn out, tedious builds on here, so don't worry 'bout it.

Thanks...
Here's a pic my builder just sent me of a RB BMP block, motor mounts and all...

Predator heads, sheet metal sixpack intake, the primary side of three split dominators, paint it all orange and tell the Chevy guys it's a stock stroke 440.

Lol...The big six barrel air cleaner hides most of that anyway.
When I was researching 6bbl intake options, way more than any sane person should, I saw some impressive results from some Mopar guys in Sweden. Some of you probably know what I'm referring to.
Thanks again all!