Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: Jeepmon]
#2768196
04/25/20 04:54 PM
04/25/20 04:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,364 Morrow, OH
markz528
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,364
Morrow, OH
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I didnt care too much for the B1 tall deck spacer, so instead of setting pins, or trying to bolt them together, I just port matched and welded them to the bottom of the intake... The end result is great and I never think twice about it now... Tony Bischoff did a similar thing to mine but he cut them all the way off and welded the spacers to the runners. Came out great. Don't have ant pics.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: AndyF]
#2768214
04/25/20 05:28 PM
04/25/20 05:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,279 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,279
PA.
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It seems weird that Koffel has never tooled up an RB version of that intake manifold. Those heads have been around for 30 years and the RB block is 10x more popular than the B block. They would've paid for the tooling many times over by now. m Ya but this way they sold intakes AND spacers. Profit on both ends. Lol.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.38@138.67
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: AndyF]
#2768235
04/25/20 06:29 PM
04/25/20 06:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,766 On the parachute mount
n20mstr
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,766
On the parachute mount
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It seems weird that Koffel has never tooled up an RB version of that intake manifold. Those heads have been around for 30 years and the RB block is 10x more popular than the B block. They would've paid for the tooling many times over by now. they did have some made, Gary Robbins has one. Dont know if it is still availible
....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: 440Jim]
#2768709
04/27/20 10:38 AM
04/27/20 10:38 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073 Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
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I look forward to hearing how your engine build goes. Are you going to dyno test it?
My block was s/n 426-538 and yours is 426-536, so very close together in Ken's shop. I was happy with his machine work on the block. Bore, deck height, mains, etc. I expect you will have to clearance the block for the pushrods, my 440-1 heads needed a little more then Ken machined the block. My head opening is traced, but I only needed a little with the grinder right where my pushrod was touching (look carefully at my pic for the grinder).
I may have told you about my experience with the oil to the lifter galleys. Back then his blocks had the oil going around the rear cam bearing to the rear holes for the lifter galley. That special groove around the outside of the cam bearing was a nice restrictor and I didn't need any additional oil restricting for push rod oiling. I put an oil pressure gauge on the main oil supply galley (priority main oiling) and a second gauge on the top/back of the block while priming the system on the engine stand. Are you using spray bars for the B1 heads?
The one set of B1 intake spacers I saw had very small openings, and significant variation from one port to the next. A lot of material to remove, and the angled intake manifold bolt holes and port angles may need a hand grinder for final work after milling the spacers a little closer to size. This is what I saw (pic). Jim, I'll be careful to check for pushrod clearance as you pointed out. I've haven't totally decided on plan for head/rocker/push rod oiling. I was originally planning to do do pushrod oiling but I'm now considering just using the standard oiling up through the block and rocker stands through the shafts to the rockers and pushrods. I wouldn't have to buy special lifters or put restrictors in the pushrods. The B1 heads have a 10/32 in the rocker stands so I can put in a restrictor of like .060 and the adjuster screws in the rockers have oil holes in the cup to oil the pushrods. Scott recommended having the #4 cam journal grooved to it would oil all the time and not pulse oil, but also been told the pulse oiling is enough and full time will put too much oil in the top end, so still thinking about that decision. (not planning to use spray bar oiling) I had plan on going with Isky bushed lifters but I've learned of a different option that people are suggesting are even better design. BAM is making a roller lifter where they coat the pin with some coating that is harder than steel and eliminates the need for needle bearings and bushings. So without those the roller and the pins can be thicker. My understanding is this technology came from NASCAR. Doing some research on this before buying. Regarding the intake spacers, the new spacers that come from Koffel already have a counter sunk hole in them so you can drill and tap the head for a cap screw so that was a nice improvement.
Wade Metzinger 918-809-0987 71 Cuda 9.28@145 -1s, Pglide 68 Cuda 10.64@124 1.45 60's 318->390 eddys Moparts discount code on WIX - moparts www.Filter1.com
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: WadeMetzinger]
#2768710
04/27/20 10:41 AM
04/27/20 10:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073 Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
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Here is a picture of a welded intake for a Drag Week motor I built for a customer 2 years ago. It was already done, i just used it and it worked great. It also had a 1" spacer added to the carb flange. (NOS plumbing done by Monte)
Last edited by WadeMetzinger; 04/27/20 10:51 AM.
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: challenger1320]
#2768754
04/27/20 02:26 PM
04/27/20 02:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 634 MD-USA
Dodgeguy101
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 634
MD-USA
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Here is one of the RB cast intakes What does one of those intakes weigh? Looks plenty heavy.
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: AndyF]
#2768786
04/27/20 04:28 PM
04/27/20 04:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,610 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,610
Las Vegas
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It seems weird that Koffel has never tooled up an RB version of that intake manifold. Those heads have been around for 30 years and the RB block is 10x more popular than the B block. They would've paid for the tooling many times over by now. They do and they have, on a very limited basis with no plans to mass produce them or likely even making any limited runs of them.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: WadeMetzinger]
#2774192
05/13/20 12:02 PM
05/13/20 12:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073 Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
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I finally received the pistons, they were ordered back in Feb but COVID-19 has held them up…
Now I’m just waiting on the GRP rods, they were ordered at the same time and GRP never shut down but I’m guessing they slowed down and we did get a call asking if we wanted Chevy or Mopar beam angle so I’m thinking they had them built and then had to scrap them and start over…
Decided not to coat them, there are some benefits but not sure they are worth the cost.
Upgraded the pins to H-13
Vertical Gas ported
.043/.043 rings (could have gone smaller but I'm not running vacuum pump so I thought this would give me some smaller ring pack benefits and not get in trouble going to thin and having to run vacuum pump) - edit, I ordered .043 . 043 but it looks like they made them .9 .9 and 3mm... doh! the oil ring is 10# so I need to call Total Seal and find out if that will work without vacuum pump. -->They said 10# wouldn't work so they are sending me a different oil ring expander to increase the pressure.
Update - When we ordered pistons we were shooting for 12.5:1 but I'm only getting about 11.5:1 and we think the problem could be that valve relief number they provided on the piston card, pretty hard to believe that there is a -13cc in just the valve relief. We were expecting 3 to 4 so that would cause me to loose a point of compression so I'm going to cc the pistons later today. [list] [*]10.725 deck [*]4.360" bore [*]4.25" stroke [*]7.100" rod [*]1.480" piston compression height (so i think that adds up to .020 in the hole) [*].040 head gasket [*]-13 cc piston valve reliefs
Last edited by WadeMetzinger; 05/13/20 01:38 PM.
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: WadeMetzinger]
#2774237
05/13/20 01:51 PM
05/13/20 01:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,913 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,913
Bend,OR USA
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I would mock up one or two pistons, rods and crankshaft at TDC,one on each side, and seal the piston tops to the cylinder wall( I use a small tip on my handheld grease gun) and then pour it to find out exactly the volume in each cylinders is to be able to figure out exactly what the compression ratio will be I use that method on Hemiroid motors, I'll move the piston down (I use a dial indicator to get the down travel) so the dome is below the deck by .030 or .050 and then use my plastic CC plate to fill the bore up, I'll use the math for a flat top piston down the same amount in the cylinder and subtract the measure amount to get the dome volume Big C.I. motors are a lot easier to get to much compression, unlike little C.I. motors that need big domes to get decent racing compression ratios
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2774283
05/13/20 04:51 PM
05/13/20 04:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,610 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,610
Las Vegas
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BAM has a very good reputation with some very big names in the industry. I planned on trying them next time we build something. Having said that I have run Isky bushed red zones for a very long time with no failures. But I believe they are a bit more $$
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: 508” KB – B1 build
[Re: WadeMetzinger]
#2774307
05/13/20 05:54 PM
05/13/20 05:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,941 NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,941
NC
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Update - When we ordered pistons we were shooting for 12.5:1 but I'm only getting about 11.5:1 and we think the problem could be that valve relief number they provided on the piston card, pretty hard to believe that there is a -13cc in just the valve relief. We were expecting 3 to 4 so that would cause me to loose a point of compression so I'm going to cc the pistons later today. Back in 2014 when I had custom Diamond pistons for my 440-1 engine with 4.500" bore, the valve relief's were 8.2cc (Diamond's number). And my valve reliefs were smaller and not as deep as yours. I was expecting about 6cc, but that is what the sheet said. Intake: 0.290" depth, 2.3" dia relief Exh: 0.265" depth, 1.84" dia relief
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