Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger
[Re: 67_Satellite]
#2732367
01/12/20 07:59 AM
01/12/20 07:59 AM
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RWG75
Unregistered
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RWG75
Unregistered
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Why try to re-invent the already new and improved wheel?(2cents) a) because you can b) some of us have some amount of objection to the wheel being digital c) a clean current gen body is easier and likely cheaper to find than an old one d) was the OP in Colorado when "inspired"? e) it would be the only one at SEMA f) many of the above
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Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger
[Re: poorboy]
#2732369
01/12/20 08:25 AM
01/12/20 08:25 AM
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RWG75
Unregistered
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RWG75
Unregistered
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I think I'd want to know if the front suspension could handle the additional weight. Then again, if you got rid of all the computers and wiring, maybe there wouldn't be much weight difference. Then the next deal would be the brake system. You will need to reroute all the brake lines to eliminate the computer controlled anti lock brake system currently on the car. Its not like the early days when you just bypassed the thing above the rear end and ran a single line to the rear axle. you get to start at the master cylinder and work from there. My concern would be if these massive brakes will work without all the computer assist. Beyond that, everything electrical inside the car has to be changed to old school. You might want to look at a flood car, clean up the body, trash everything inside of it, and build from there. Then, as long as you can drive it where you don't need to pass any kind of vehicle inspection or emission testing you might be OK, because it would never pass the visual inspection, let along an actual emission test. Of course, when you do this, we will all want to watch the process in pictures. Then we will be able to decide if we want to put this muck work into a project like this. Gene Lots of good points here. A 440 is a big heavy chunk of metal but where there's a will.... Clearly not an aftermarket off the shelf fix but maybe talk to AlterKation and see what they think. I'm thinking maybe autocross parts or transplant springs from a [diesel] truck. Also raises the question of how much real estate you've got under the hood. If you could shoe horn an aluminum block G2 Hemi in there that would probably solve the weight problem. It wouldn't have the curb appeal of an RB but a stroked 360 LA would be smaller and lighter and not exactly anemic if built right. I don't think brakes would be a major problem. If you were doing a 50 yr old Challenger you'd likely end up running all new lines away. Somebody else made the point that it's still just a hydro system and see also: Wildwood. Pretty sure their typical restomod formula is big rotors, big calipers, generic booster, no electronic voodoo. As for street legal, clearly forget about it if you're California or NJ or a lot of other places. I think you'd be ok from a vehicle safety inspection perspective - lights, horns, wipers, tires, brakes, exhaust. I am positive that PA gives you a pass on the emissions based on mileage since last test - I see the exempt stickers on late model stuff routinely. So far I'm not hearing a good reason not to or how it isn't doable.
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Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger
[Re: ]
#2732371
01/12/20 08:32 AM
01/12/20 08:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,027 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,027
Tulsa OK
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While its not my cup of tea it for sure could be done. Just make sure it is s healthy 440 because the 300HP V6 with the 8 speed will give a stockfish one a good run lol.
You could probably get enough information to the computer to get crap to work. It needs engine RPM, coolant temp, and vehicle speed to make lots of things work. You will never get a check engine light off but I bet you can bring life to most of the modern stuff that makes these new cars tick(HVAC, smart windows, gauges, etc).
The smart window is smart, I have never ridden in an older vehicle with frameless windows that didn't make some kind of noise at the seams. Most of our old cars are to loud to hear or we have to have the windows down to we don't get asphyxiated so we never hear the noise lol. The seal is payable enough that the door will open just fine with a dead battery. It won't close well but you can open it so you can get either end open for jumper cables.
I also wouldn't worry about the weight of the "mighty 440" because I am sure a hellcat engine and trans in full dress weighs more, probably a lot more.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger
[Re: yellowgtx]
#2732411
01/12/20 11:49 AM
01/12/20 11:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 131 British Columbia
yellowgtx
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 131
British Columbia
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WOW Thanks for all the input guys. I keep saying this is my last car (65 Satellite AFX clone) But I just had a brain fart that there is a lot of milaged out 2008-2010's around and the value of them if the tranny or motor is gone puts them close to scrap or part out mode. Not interested in a drag car. Been there done that. Just like having a project on the go. I have seen a lot of the little 3.6- V6's that can put an old 383 or even some 440's on the trailer. It was just an idea I had to throw it out there to see how much of a problem the electronics would be. Also an economical way to maybe land a new style Challenger. Been retired for 16 years now so car money is I might say running on empty. A 340 or even a way cheaper 318 would be easier, as would building just for drag racing. Emissions up in my part are not a factor. Thanks for all the input. I will be watching for more.
After almost 71 years I am on my last car. A 65 Plymouth Satellite straight axle altered wheel base car.
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Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger
[Re: ]
#2732684
01/13/20 12:13 PM
01/13/20 12:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,323 St. Louis, Mo
318 Stroker
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,323
St. Louis, Mo
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You need to have "smart glass" so the windows will seal when the door is opened and closed.
Smart glass is stupid. The only explanation I've ever heard for it is to make the glass seal better. The frameless windows on my 45 year old cars still seal just fine so not buying that one. Ever try opening one when it's got a coating of ice on it and the window won't go down? end tangent. Don't get me going on the smart glass. My 2010 Challenger is my daily driver, and has to live outside. Winter is fun when the glass is froze and I can't get in the car. Fortunately, I have a 2011 Dakota 4WD to fall back on. At least when it freezes, I can get in it the old fashioned way by prying open the frozen doors with a rag-wrapped screwdriver...
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Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger
[Re: DusterKid]
#2732828
01/13/20 10:23 PM
01/13/20 10:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,235 Phoenix, AZ
Jjs72D
Deep in the closet
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Deep in the closet
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,235
Phoenix, AZ
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My first inclination is to dismiss this idea for being counterproductive. A 5.7 Hemi will outperform a stock 440 in acceleration, mileage and durability. It weighs less. Then I started thinking about all of those V6 Challengers out there. An aluminum headed 440 with aluminum intake and a Sniper fuel injection setup could be pretty cool. You'd have more power than the 5.7, gobs more torque and it would be an engine that you could fix yourself. The Interior wouldn't need to be gone through, the body should be in better shape and the suspension gives a nicer ride than any old rusty musclecar. In short, the "buy-in" of $5-7000 gets you a pretty good starting point. People put aftermarket gauges in old cars so that isn't really an obstacle. Heating and A/C would pose some problems but a crafty guy should be able to devise something from Classic Auto Air or Vintage Air. No anti-lock brakes? So what? Old cars don't have them and people survived without them. The real hurdle is emission testing. Technically, it is against Federal law to alter or remove the OEM emission equipment. It makes no difference if a state does no inspection or emission testing, it is still illegal to remove the stuff. I get it though, if they don't check, it is highly unlikely that a Federal agent is going to apprehend a guy with a 2009 440 Challenger.
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Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger
[Re: Alaskan_TA]
#2732877
01/14/20 08:26 AM
01/14/20 08:26 AM
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RWG75
Unregistered
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RWG75
Unregistered
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Just for grins I surfed around Copart the other day. Found at least (3) flood cars listed with no reserve. Might get bid up for the parts value, might be worth watching just to see how high they go. One from SC which is likely a salt water flood and a couple from Houston which should be fresh water. I think I'd avoid the salt water ones.
As for title / registration headaches: going from salvage to reconstructed seems to be pretty routine in most places, starting with a flood branded title could be a non starter as that's supposed to mean unrepairable and for parts only. Reconstructed meas different things in different states. In PA it mostly means "safe to operate", other places might expect as delivered systems to be functioning - air bags being the big headache there. If I get bored / curious later I'll look at the DMV regs about "street rod" titles as that could be a loop hole big enough to drive through.
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Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger
[Re: moparx]
#2732931
01/14/20 12:43 PM
01/14/20 12:43 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,841 MI, usa
dvw
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Posts: 9,841
MI, usa
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Suspension holding the weight is easy. Once the junk you want to remove is gone. The brakes with the correct bore master cylinder, piece of cake. Weight? No issue. I've seen them below 3200 with stock appearing interior, power windows, ect. Again remove junk you dont need. Air bags extra stereo, A/C, power steering, etc. The windows. Now there's an issue. Making them work without the BCM can be done . But it's not cheap. The earlier models window are a little easier. Doug
Last edited by dvw; 01/14/20 12:45 PM.
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Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger
[Re: Stanton]
#2733282
01/15/20 10:21 AM
01/15/20 10:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,394 Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
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Pikes Peak Country
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Do you live where they check emissions controls? You'd have a fun time making a 440 compliant to the current standards. This or any type of safety inspection required to register the vehicle could easily derail the whole project. In some places in the US, when significantly mis-matched eras of chassis and engine are put together, some jurisdictions will make everything be compliant to the newest year of the combination.
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Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger
[Re: dvw]
#2733595
01/16/20 12:42 PM
01/16/20 12:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 153 MI, USA
moparmitch
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member
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Posts: 153
MI, USA
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Suspension holding the weight is easy. Once the junk you want to remove is gone. The brakes with the correct bore master cylinder, piece of cake. Weight? No issue. I've seen them below 3200 with stock appearing interior, power windows, ect. Again remove junk you dont need. Air bags extra stereo, A/C, power steering, etc. The windows. Now there's an issue. Making them work without the BCM can be done . But it's not cheap. The earlier models window are a little easier. Doug Is the below 3200 with aftermarket front and rear suspension and mounting vs something based off using oem front and rear cradles? Also including some form of roll cage? I've looked a bit on the web for info on this haven't seen any particular detailed info for a new challenger with extreme weight reduction, other than the Drag Pak style cars, which I think are more than 3200 (not sure though). Any recommendations for racers to follow who have done this or other examples on the web? Thanks!
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Re: anyone put a 440 in new style Challenger
[Re: Jjs72D]
#2733598
01/16/20 01:02 PM
01/16/20 01:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,770 Holland MI Ottawa
2boltmain
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,770
Holland MI Ottawa
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V6 car would be excellent candidate as well as stolen recovered and fresh water flood. Body and paint work is incredibly expensive and a regular car guy cannot get pro results. Taking a Mint newer challenger the paint and body is done. The rest of the stuff- replacing new tech with old, fabbing mounts oil pan and exh etc can be done by handi car guy. Wont be cheap but will be cheaper than doing a classic. Using alum heads and WP housing sheds a lot of weight from the classic 440. And again any collision shop can tend to body repair and oem body part pipeline exists. Why is it OK to put modern Skinny jean, man bun, latte sipping save the world by posting from their iphone oversize wheels on an old classic but not ok to put old iron in modern car?
Last edited by 2boltmain; 01/16/20 01:05 PM.
Keep old mopars alive.
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