540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
#2730402
01/05/20 09:25 PM
01/05/20 09:25 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 100 Louisiana
BiomedTechGuy
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EDIT: I went ahead and scratched an itch and bought a Weiand P3690982 6bbl low profile tunnel ram. Later in this thread, a forum member says that the Weiand will fit under a modded (trimmed) air box of a 70 N96 Roadrunner Air Grabber. CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THIS? I will be able to soon enough, but I'm asking. Thanks I've read numerous outstanding posts, articles, reviews, and YouTube videos looking for options. I'm looking for suggestions, warnings, direction, experience, LOTS of experience, like "WHAT IS IT LIKE DRIVING A 70 B-BODY WITH 600-700 HP and Torque provided by a NA 3x2 carbureted FIVE FOURTY ONE cu in stroker. Passon Performance 5 speed manual. My "racing" is strictly Wednesday Test and Tune night and weekend, but my 70 Roadrunner is mostly for local monthly cruise in car shows and a couple of longer distance shows I drive to, like the 2 hour each way trip to the Battleship Alabama, Wellborn Museum, and I may do a Mopar Road Trip like their Mopar only "Power Tour". EVERY year I will drive up and down the Mississippi Gulf Coast for an ENTIRE WEEK at Cruisin the Coast, lots of stop and go traffic. I have a trailer if the trip is too far, or until I am comfortable that I'm not likely to break anything. Aluminum aftermarket block, solid FLAT TAPPET cam, minimal chance of breakage, minimal maintenance. Power output will be whatever it is within the boundaries set forth: So here are the things I will NOT debate or compromise on: 3x2 Promax modded Holley carbs and any aluminum intake that will allow me to keep the N96 Air Grabber setup on my 70 Roadrunner. If I have to trim it, bend it, cut it, that's OK, but I want a functional Air Grabber. I'm keeping the Passon 5 speed. It's supposed to be able to EASILY handle 700 continuous ft lbs of torque. So that's basically it. Street friendly, but an aftermarket aluminum block to save weight, add a major WOW factor, and most importantly I'm not going to be worried about splitting a block in the case of a factory block walking its upper limits. I don't mind checking lash a couple of times a year, and turning a few screws on my 6bbl. I would love to move to the F&B direct port injection 3x2 throttle body injection system in the future, which will increase CFM from 1350 (2bbl) up to 2,400 CFM. No solid rollers because I don't want to worry about them coming apart or having to be rebuilt, and I don't expect to have excessive spring pressure, so solid flat tappet lifters should work fine. I'm guessing the only 2 intakes to consider that will work within my 3x2 and N96 hood boundaries is the Indy ModMan and the Edelbrock/Chrysler aluminum 6bbl intake. Thanks for your help and I await your replies!
Last edited by BiomedTechGuy; 01/09/20 12:51 AM. Reason: Added a question
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: BiomedTechGuy]
#2730481
01/06/20 10:09 AM
01/06/20 10:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570 UK
rb446
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
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My all time favourite year/colour RR Bio, (440rb from B bods only).....nice to see it properly.
Last edited by rb446; 01/06/20 10:10 AM.
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: BiomedTechGuy]
#2730488
01/06/20 10:34 AM
01/06/20 10:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,028 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,028
Benton, IL.
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First off, you aren't going to do much satisfactory racing, nor are you going to hurt any drive train parts with those tires on the rear. In fact, they will be down right dangerous in normal driving. Especially with a stick.
Changing over to drag radials will be the only way that you will be able to use the secondaries on your 6 bbl anywhere under about 75MPH. Traction will be that compromised in my experience.
When I built my first 500" wedge, as I was tuning and tweeking it, I decided to kick it down into passing gear at about 50MPH. The rear broke loose and before I could blink, the thing was heading for the ditch. Thankfully, there was no oncoming traffic and the shoulders were smooth.
A stick is way cool and fun. But for most people it turns a competitive car into a mere toy. A stick behind a 540" wedge will, at least for most people, make the car more dangerous and less competitive. But, some find it more fun that an auto. We all have to pick our priorities.
Master, again and still
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2730562
01/06/20 03:15 PM
01/06/20 03:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
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Bend,OR USA
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I had the exact opposite results with M/T ET Street Radials compared to the M/T ET Street bias ply tires of the same size tires on the same size rims, I've knock the radials loose more than once at 55+ MPH passing without downshifting when the six pack outer carbs came open, not so with the ET street Bias ply tires, ever I would run 18 to 20 lbs. n the radials and the same pressure in the bias plys unless I was going to race it and I would run them at 10 to 12 lbs. then.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2730575
01/06/20 04:01 PM
01/06/20 04:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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I know it is very difficult to fit what you want under the stock hood Just had a thought after staring at your hood.......the center part of the hood where it is raised could be cut,sectioned and raised to accommodate a nice performing intake.You could get another steel hood or fiberglass hinged hood to make it work. I never tried radials either even with the possible advantages they may have. My street tire is the MT E/T Street 16.5 x 31 and I just made them last 4 seasons. You might have to compromise and have 2 sets of rear tires. My slicks are 10.5 x 29.5 and do work better at the track than the ET's. But they do hook on a prepped surface.
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2730676
01/06/20 11:26 PM
01/06/20 11:26 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 100 Louisiana
BiomedTechGuy
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Thanks for the replies. I realize the current 315/35/17 Toyo Proxes TQ drag radials are not ideal for the track. I am having traction problems now with my warmed over 440+6bbl. They are my "I just ordered 9" aluminum Rallye wheels (8" wide front) and let me guess what the widest drag radial will fit" tires, and they are going to be on those wheels as I add: Hydramax hydraulic throwout bearing, HitMaster launch control system, Calvert split mono leaf springs, Assassin traction bars, sliders, and double adjustable Viking rear shocks. Once all of my new rear suspension and traction aids are in place, and the line lock is going in in February along with a new QA1 K-member and front suspension I've owned for over a year, and 4 wheel 6 caliper Wilwood disc brakes, and the rear suspension asap (by February if I can swing the $$$). That would be ideal if I can get the rear suspension installed along with everything else. Then I'll look at what I have traction wise. I expect them to work with my current motor. Bias ply MT drag tires are likely going to be my track only attempt to get hooked, either sooner if all of those additions fail to hook with my current motor and tires, but certainly with a 6XX-7XX HP and torque stroker motor. If I hook up with the 315s, I may try the 345/40/17s next anyway.
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: BiomedTechGuy]
#2730688
01/07/20 12:03 AM
01/07/20 12:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,028 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,028
Benton, IL.
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One thing about all those new and adjustable pieces in the rear; It will take a bunch of experimentation to find what works and what doesn't. Which means a lot of wear and tear because you can't baby it out of the hole at all. In order to find out what works, you have to hit it hard EVERY time. Then make a change and hit it again. Just stop and think for a moment how many adjustments you have back there and how many combinations. I personally have busted more parts testing that I ever have racing.
And the settings for one kind of tires will be different than for another set. Heck, I need to change my Cal-Trac settings for a prepped vs un-prepped track with the same tires, let alone changing the type of tire, too. Maybe your electronic controls will make that simpler for you. I have no experience with that. How do they work on a carbureted car? Pull timing? What other ways do they help with traction?
Trying to hold down the kind of power a 540 Mopar makes is a real chore.
Master, again and still
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: BiomedTechGuy]
#2730813
01/07/20 03:01 PM
01/07/20 03:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
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New York
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W/r/t Indy ModMan and the Edelbrock/Chrysler aluminum 6bbl intake Those are very different. The Eddy is a 180° dual plane type, and restrictive as to CFM available per cylinder to 3 bbls.: each intake port in turn only draws from 1 side of the manifold. I also just found some reviews about how complex re-jetting is with major engine mods. The ModMan is an open shoebox; a tunnel ram with very short runners and a smaller plenum.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: BiomedTechGuy]
#2730953
01/07/20 10:53 PM
01/07/20 10:53 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505 TN
SCATPACK 1
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505
TN
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Bio You do have another option for the six pack sset up. IF yu can find the Weiand SS intake, it can be made to fit with the N96 . A friend ran a 70 RR 440 6 pak 4 speed in Super Stock back in the day. To get the hood to close, he did some trimming to the black plastic(fiberglass or what ever it was made of) adapter that mounts to the hood. He pulled the radiator and water pump and then shut the hood so he could see where it needed to be trimmed and kept whittling on it until he could shut the hood all the way. You have a Beautiful car. Just an FYI, I could never get the drag radials to hook up behind my 440 4 seed challenger.
Old Geezer Racing
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: SCATPACK 1]
#2730964
01/07/20 11:13 PM
01/07/20 11:13 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 100 Louisiana
BiomedTechGuy
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Thank you for the kind remarks. You may be responsible for sending me back into madness!! Let me explain... I am haunted by the Weiand P3690982 6bbl intake. To me, it's a thing of beauty and function. I came very close to buying one, a few months ago, and just thinking about it kept me awake at night. I was just offered another one that is very clean, and already has the Chrysler Performance bulletin mods done to it... I thought, FOR SURE, that it would NOT FIT even with a modified N96 Air Grabber. Let me address my current state of my Air Grabber, and how important it is to me. I have always thought the trap door style vacuum actuated Air Grabber is the, THE most awesome fresh air setup of the ENTIRE muscle car era! Not only does it function well, but it looks amazing, fully deployed and in the act of opening. I have the composite material air box off of a 70 Roadrunner, and a few other parts. There is still quite a bit I need to complete it. I sold my non-N96 hood because I'd never go back to that and I have the hood you see, bought new from AMD and beautifully paint matched to my car. So PLEASE, in as much detail as possible, tell me that you know for sure that the N96 setup can be used with the Weiand, and a sealed airbox albeit modified can also be part of that assembly, and I will go ahead and get the Weiand, because honestly, that is the intake I really want. The Weiand also looks awesome set up with the F&B 3x2 throttle body direct port injection system, and the DPI completely eliminates the inherent fuel droplet/distribution/ puddling issues and has GOT to be a great performing combination, although I would start with my Promax modded Holley 2bbl carbs. I anxiously await your reply.
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: polyspheric]
#2730967
01/07/20 11:19 PM
01/07/20 11:19 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 100 Louisiana
BiomedTechGuy
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It's great reading, and I found it months ago searching for everything I could find on the various 6bbl intake manifold options. I almost have it committed to memory. I even found the ONE copy of the one edition year Mopar Performance manual that has all of the notes, bulletins, drawings, and upgrades/mods for the Edelbrock STR series and the Weiand intakes. Thanks
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: SCATPACK 1]
#2730988
01/08/20 12:55 AM
01/08/20 12:55 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 100 Louisiana
BiomedTechGuy
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Bio You do have another option for the six pack sset up. IF yu can find the Weiand SS intake, it can be made to fit with the N96 . A friend ran a 70 RR 440 6 pak 4 speed in Super Stock back in the day. To get the hood to close, he did some trimming to the black plastic(fiberglass or what ever it was made of) adapter that mounts to the hood. He pulled the radiator and water pump and then shut the hood so he could see where it needed to be trimmed and kept whittling on it until he could shut the hood all the way. You have a Beautiful car. Just an FYI, I could never get the drag radials to hook up behind my 440 4 seed challenger. Well I couldn't wait, and I am getting the already modded Weiand P3690982 6bbl intake. I'm pretty excited. I may even try it on my current motor. Promax modded Holley 2bbl carbs, Carter M6903 high volume mech fuel pump Purple Stripe 292°/.509 hydraulic flat tappet cam, CompCams lifters, springs, locks, and retainers Iron 1978 452 heads, TTi 1&7/8" headers Passson 5 speed 4.10 gears. Installing in February QA1 K-member and front suspension, 4 wheel 6 piston Wilwood disc brakes and line lock Wraptor serpentine belt and accessory system. Coming asap: new leaf springs, sliders, Assassin traction bars and double adjustable Viking rear shocks I already have a Hydramax hydraulic throwout bearing, and I am going to get the HitMaster launch control system Either chrome molly or aluminum driveshaft
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: BiomedTechGuy]
#2731030
01/08/20 10:18 AM
01/08/20 10:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Not gonna be much help for you, but I have the parts to assemble a 540" hemi for my dad's 4 speed road runner. Very similar to what you're after, drive it anywhere, 18 spline 4 speed, his has AC, 3.54 Dana, etc. My plan for the bottom end was/is a World block, K1 4.25" crank, Molnar rods, 10:1 Diamond pistons, stock style hemi/six pack oil pan. Stock street hemi Vanke modded intake w/ a pair of older Carter 750 cfm AFB carbs. Brand new but unported Edelbrock casting hemi heads...not the newer Vic Jr. heads. Custom spec'd hydraulic roller cam from Dwayne Porter that's around 250° @ .050". My intent was to let the mild cam and unported heads keep the power limited to the 600 hp ballpark for a nice all around driver.
I have all the parts in the shop for it...been there for several years now. Dad has basically decided to leave the car alone since he loves the way the 440 six pack in it runs and doesn't think he needs anything more than what it already has.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: second 70]
#2731080
01/08/20 01:46 PM
01/08/20 01:46 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 100 Louisiana
BiomedTechGuy
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Chip your Dad's a smart man. I see a number of posts here and elsewhere that lean towards keeping engines mild or stock. I've seen so many engines built close to, at, or above the level I plan I couldn't count them all. I understand that simpler, more stock, less radical is easier, but I have a Dodge Caravan for my daily driver, and unless the stroker is prone to leave me stranded, I think I would enjoy it a lot more than the warmed over 440+6bbl I have now.
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Re: 540 aluminum block, MUST have 3x2bbl, fit 70 N96 Air Grabber
[Re: BiomedTechGuy]
#2731279
01/08/20 10:31 PM
01/08/20 10:31 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Chip your Dad's a smart man. I see a number of posts here and elsewhere that lean towards keeping engines mild or stock. I've seen so many engines built close to, at, or above the level I plan I couldn't count them all. I understand that simpler, more stock, less radical is easier, but I have a Dodge Caravan for my daily driver, and unless the stroker is prone to leave me stranded, I think I would enjoy it a lot more than the warmed over 440+6bbl I have now. That's the nice thing about displacement, even when built mild enough for your grandmother it will still make enough torque to scare the $hit out of you if applied indiscriminately. My 9:1 MP509 cammed 493 wedge made over 500 ft/lbs between 2000 and 5000, 600 peak @ 4000. Kevin
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