Why did my Cam Fail????
#2723047
12/10/19 06:23 PM
12/10/19 06:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,275 Morrow, OH
markz528
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Morrow, OH
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Comp Cams steel billet 23-000-9 mechanical roller. Bought new in 2006 but less than 100 runs.
Valve Adjustment .020 Intake/Exhaust (approx .017 cold) Lift Intake/Exhaust .706/.676 Duration @ .020 Intake/Exhaust 318/328 (285/290 @ 0.050)
I don't know the spring pressures. Always used Castrol Synthetic Syntec 20w50 oil. Might have been 5w50 - can't remember right now.
The grooving is actually worse on the sides than on top. Most lobes are affected. Called Comp Cams and they were zero help.
Any thoughts?
Last edited by markz528; 12/10/19 06:23 PM.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: markz528]
#2723051
12/10/19 06:40 PM
12/10/19 06:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Honestly, that looks fairly normal to me. I don’t consider that a cam that “failed”.
I hate to get into this kind of discussion(everybody has their favorites)....... but I’d have used different oil.
I still feel high zinc oils are best in HP applications. There could have been some skidding going on with the rollers, and some anti-friction additives might have diminished what you’re seeing.
That being said, if the pics are the worst of it....... I’d reuse it.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2723056
12/10/19 06:50 PM
12/10/19 06:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I Live Here
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UD roller from 1993 or 94. Crane 8620 billet core. Springs were 200/500, 1.5 rockers, Herbert lifters. 2 dyno sessions and about 200 passes.
Pretty normal from what I’ve seen through the years.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2723058
12/10/19 06:53 PM
12/10/19 06:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,467 Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,467
Sydney,Australia
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Honestly, that looks “fairly” normal to me. I don’t consider that a cam that “failed”.
I hate to get into this kind of discussion(everybody has their favorites)....... but I’d have used different oil.
I still feel high zinc oils are best in HP applications. There could have been some skidding going on with the rollers, and some anti-friction additives might have diminished what you’re seeing. I am with Fast with this . It seems for a performance roller , hyd or solid , a mineral or semi synth oil is the go . With high pressure the wheel skids not rolls with full synthetic . Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: tex013]
#2723060
12/10/19 06:59 PM
12/10/19 06:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I Live Here
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Actually, I have no issue with synthetics....... I just would be using a race type oil with a higher zinc content than what’s on the shelf at WalMart.
Something like Driven.
If I pulled that cam out of a motor I was freshening........ I’d put it right back in when it was going back together.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: markz528]
#2723062
12/10/19 07:06 PM
12/10/19 07:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,228 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
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Bend,OR USA
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Are these pictures of the opening side or closing side or both? If they are of the closing side I think you need more valve spring pressure to keep the rollers on the lobe all the time, not hopping over the nose and sliding when they hit the backside of the lobes If it is on both sides I would add more spring pressures on the seats and opened both I like 230+ lbs. on the seta sand from 600+ up opened That is a big grind, lots of duration at .050 Do you know the spring pressures it had when you took it apart this time? BTW, I don't like or use synthetic motor oil in any of my old motors, especially Hi Po drag race motors I like and use Valvoline VR1 10W30Wt in them now If they made 5W20 Wt. in VR1 I would use that instead of their 10W30Wt
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2723063
12/10/19 07:17 PM
12/10/19 07:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,611 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,611
Fulton County, PA
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I had an old Cam Dynamics 620/640 solid roller that looked like that. Ran it for years. Never got any worse.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2723094
12/10/19 09:52 PM
12/10/19 09:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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master
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Milwaukee WI
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I see no fail in that either. Can you feel the trace?
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2723097
12/10/19 09:58 PM
12/10/19 09:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,185 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
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Posts: 20,185
PA.
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I had an old Cam Dynamics 620/640 solid roller that looked like that. Ran it for years. Never got any worse. Hey I think I know that cam. Lol.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2723130
12/10/19 11:37 PM
12/10/19 11:37 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100 Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
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master
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Rogue River, OR
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Skid marks for sure. If you have straight enough pushrods angles you could try a rev kit? I considered trying one but i did not have room due to the prod angles. You also have to use a compatible lifer and we used .180 offset isky ez roll max roller lifter which are not.
Id be interested to see the difference when you measure the roller area vs the virgin lobe.
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Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: Jeremiah]
#2723134
12/11/19 12:03 AM
12/11/19 12:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,275 Morrow, OH
markz528
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Morrow, OH
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To answer some of the questions.....
This cam was not getting reused anyway. The motor will be a new combo including new cam and lifters. I sold the heads and will not bother to measure the spring pressure. I have the spring pressure written down somewhere, but can't find it right now.
I don't remember if it is the same on the up and down or not - would have to look when I get home. One lifter had a scored roller biu other than that they looked fine to me.
The pictures don't do it justice. Some of the grooving is quite deep - more than just a light catch with a fingernail. I might try to measure it in the lathe with an indicator. I would not feel good about reusing this cam. My buddy called it a "tomato stake".
Knowing what I know today I don't like my choice of oil either. I believe that I was skidding the rollers on the cam because of one or more variable's. I think it may be a combination of oil and maybe spring pressure.
My biggest thing is to make sure that the new motor cam does not experience any issues..............
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: markz528]
#2723137
12/11/19 12:24 AM
12/11/19 12:24 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,228 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
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Bend,OR USA
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If you can feel those marks it needs to be fix before running it again. I'm sure that this motor is not a wedge, correct? The valve train on a 426 Hemi motors need a lot better parts (than a B, RB or SB motor)as far as the pushrods, valve springs. keeper and retainers to make the valve train stay stable above 6000 RPM
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/11/19 12:24 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2723158
12/11/19 07:35 AM
12/11/19 07:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,275 Morrow, OH
markz528
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,275
Morrow, OH
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If you can feel those marks it needs to be fix before running it again. I'm sure that this motor is not a wedge, correct? The valve train on a 426 Hemi motors need a lot better parts (than a B, RB or SB motor)as far as the pushrods, valve springs. keeper and retainers to make the valve train stay stable above 6000 RPM It is a wedge.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: fbs63]
#2723207
12/11/19 11:05 AM
12/11/19 11:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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There are no cast roller cores for BB Mopars.
Copper color between the lobes is 8620 material. Black between the lobes is usually 5150 material.
The heat treat goes deeper on the 5150, which allows for more manipulation for putting a wider variety of lifts and LSA’s on the core.
Both are steel billet.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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