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Why did my Cam Fail???? #2723047
12/10/19 05:23 PM
12/10/19 05:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Milford, OH
markz528 Offline OP
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Comp Cams steel billet 23-000-9 mechanical roller. Bought new in 2006 but less than 100 runs.

Valve Adjustment .020 Intake/Exhaust (approx .017 cold)
Lift Intake/Exhaust .706/.676
Duration @ .020 Intake/Exhaust 318/328 (285/290 @ 0.050)

I don't know the spring pressures. Always used Castrol Synthetic Syntec 20w50 oil. Might have been 5w50 - can't remember right now.

The grooving is actually worse on the sides than on top. Most lobes are affected. Called Comp Cams and they were zero help.

Any thoughts?


cam 1.jpgcam 2.jpgcam 3.jpg
Last edited by markz528; 12/10/19 05:23 PM.

67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 13.300 @ 101.75 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: markz528] #2723051
12/10/19 05:40 PM
12/10/19 05:40 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Online content
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Honestly, that looks fairly normal to me.
I don’t consider that a cam that “failed”.

I hate to get into this kind of discussion(everybody has their favorites)....... but I’d have used different oil.

I still feel high zinc oils are best in HP applications.
There could have been some skidding going on with the rollers, and some anti-friction additives might have diminished what you’re seeing.

That being said, if the pics are the worst of it....... I’d reuse it.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: markz528] #2723052
12/10/19 05:40 PM
12/10/19 05:40 PM
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junction city oregon
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viperblue72 Offline
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I don’t have your answer but I imagine you can have that reground. How do the lifters look?

Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2723056
12/10/19 05:50 PM
12/10/19 05:50 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Online content
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UD roller from 1993 or 94.
Crane 8620 billet core.
Springs were 200/500, 1.5 rockers, Herbert lifters.
2 dyno sessions and about 200 passes.

Pretty normal from what I’ve seen through the years.

BD9F74DE-0372-415E-8D59-556ADCC6AE44.jpeg

68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2723058
12/10/19 05:53 PM
12/10/19 05:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,028
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Honestly, that looks “fairly” normal to me.
I don’t consider that a cam that “failed”.

I hate to get into this kind of discussion(everybody has their favorites)....... but I’d have used different oil.

I still feel high zinc oils are best in HP applications.
There could have been some skidding going on with the rollers, and some anti-friction additives might have diminished what you’re seeing.

I am with Fast with this . It seems for a performance roller , hyd or solid , a mineral or semi synth oil is the go . With high pressure the wheel skids not rolls with full synthetic .

Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: tex013] #2723060
12/10/19 05:59 PM
12/10/19 05:59 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Online content
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Actually, I have no issue with synthetics....... I just would be using a race type oil with a higher zinc content than what’s on the shelf at WalMart.

Something like Driven.

If I pulled that cam out of a motor I was freshening........ I’d put it right back in when it was going back together.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: markz528] #2723062
12/10/19 06:06 PM
12/10/19 06:06 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Are these pictures of the opening side or closing side or both?
If they are of the closing side I think you need more valve spring pressure to keep the rollers on the lobe all the time, not hopping over the nose and sliding when they hit the backside of the lobes twocents work
If it is on both sides I would add more spring pressures on the seats and opened both up I like 230+ lbs. on the seta sand from 600+ up opened up
That is a big grind, lots of duration at .050 work
Do you know the spring pressures it had when you took it apart this time?
BTW, I don't like or use synthetic motor oil in any of my old motors, especially Hi Po drag race motors twocents I like and use Valvoline VR1 10W30Wt in them now up
If they made 5W20 Wt. in VR1 I would use that instead of their 10W30Wt shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2723063
12/10/19 06:17 PM
12/10/19 06:17 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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I had an old Cam Dynamics 620/640 solid roller that looked like that. Ran it for years. Never got any worse.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: CMcAllister] #2723094
12/10/19 08:52 PM
12/10/19 08:52 PM
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Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
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I see no fail in that either. Can you feel the trace?


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: CMcAllister] #2723097
12/10/19 08:58 PM
12/10/19 08:58 PM
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PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
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Originally Posted by CMcAllister
I had an old Cam Dynamics 620/640 solid roller that looked like that. Ran it for years. Never got any worse.





Hey I think I know that cam. Lol.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: pittsburghracer] #2723130
12/10/19 10:37 PM
12/10/19 10:37 PM
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Posts: 8,414
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline
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Skid marks for sure. If you have straight enough pushrods angles you could try a rev kit? I considered trying one but i did not have room due to the prod angles. You also have to use a compatible lifer and we used .180 offset isky ez roll max roller lifter which are not.

Id be interested to see the difference when you measure the roller area vs the virgin lobe.

Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: Jeremiah] #2723134
12/10/19 11:03 PM
12/10/19 11:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,672
Milford, OH
markz528 Offline OP
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To answer some of the questions.....

This cam was not getting reused anyway. The motor will be a new combo including new cam and lifters. I sold the heads and will not bother to measure the spring pressure. I have the spring pressure written down somewhere, but can't find it right now.

I don't remember if it is the same on the up and down or not - would have to look when I get home. One lifter had a scored roller biu other than that they looked fine to me.

The pictures don't do it justice. Some of the grooving is quite deep - more than just a light catch with a fingernail. I might try to measure it in the lathe with an indicator. I would not feel good about reusing this cam. My buddy called it a "tomato stake".

Knowing what I know today I don't like my choice of oil either. I believe that I was skidding the rollers on the cam because of one or more variable's. I think it may be a combination of oil and maybe spring pressure.

My biggest thing is to make sure that the new motor cam does not experience any issues..............


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 13.300 @ 101.75 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: markz528] #2723137
12/10/19 11:24 PM
12/10/19 11:24 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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If you can feel those marks it needs to be fix before running it again.
I'm sure that this motor is not a wedge, correct?
The valve train on a 426 Hemi motors need a lot better parts (than a B, RB or SB motor)as far as the pushrods, valve springs. keeper and retainers to make the valve train stay stable above 6000 RPM shruggy

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/10/19 11:24 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2723158
12/11/19 06:35 AM
12/11/19 06:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,672
Milford, OH
markz528 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
If you can feel those marks it needs to be fix before running it again.
I'm sure that this motor is not a wedge, correct?
The valve train on a 426 Hemi motors need a lot better parts (than a B, RB or SB motor)as far as the pushrods, valve springs. keeper and retainers to make the valve train stay stable above 6000 RPM shruggy


It is a wedge.


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 13.300 @ 101.75 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: markz528] #2723161
12/11/19 06:53 AM
12/11/19 06:53 AM
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Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
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gregsdart Offline
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A cracked crank will do that and worse. Mine ran well right up until I drove over the rod bearings and related parts!

Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: markz528] #2723162
12/11/19 06:54 AM
12/11/19 06:54 AM
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NW Indiana
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fbs63 Offline
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I have had 2 customers lose roller cams and hurt lifters using synthetic oil. 1 used Mobile 1 and one used Valvoline synthetic. I recommend Penn grade (Brad Penn) or Penzoil 25-50 racing oil.

Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: fbs63] #2723175
12/11/19 08:07 AM
12/11/19 08:07 AM
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I'm going to go against some the the grain here and say that cam is compromised and likely 'soft'. The cam in the pic that Fast posted LOOKS GOOD TO ME TOO but, it looks differently 'worn' in my eyes. My buddy bought a solid roller cam from Comp about 6 years ago and the core color between lobes was black like seen. It wiped out in the same manner in a very short time. They all used to be 'copper' color from what i remember until relatively recently. The one solid roller i bought new from Comp around that same era WAS 'copper'. I'm not sure if that is a reflection of the parent cam metallurgy or just heat treat. His newest cam is 'copper color' but was bought from Crane about 4 years ago and has over 3x the use on it so far and looks fine under all same conditions. And for what it's worth his newest cam has a significant increase in lobe intensity.

Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: HardcoreB] #2723186
12/11/19 08:36 AM
12/11/19 08:36 AM
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fbs63 Offline
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Usually the copper color cores are billet and the black cam cores are cast.

Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: fbs63] #2723207
12/11/19 10:05 AM
12/11/19 10:05 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Online content
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There are no cast roller cores for BB Mopars.

Copper color between the lobes is 8620 material.
Black between the lobes is usually 5150 material.

The heat treat goes deeper on the 5150, which allows for more manipulation for putting a wider variety of lifts and LSA’s on the core.

Both are steel billet.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Why did my Cam Fail???? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2723211
12/11/19 10:44 AM
12/11/19 10:44 AM
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NW Indiana
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fbs63 Offline
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I've had some hydraulic rollers I would swear were cast.

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