Cam recommenations updated 4/18
#2715686
11/14/19 12:43 PM
11/14/19 12:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 936 Deland, Florida
biff426
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 936
Deland, Florida
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So my son has a 2011 charger 5.7 ex police car. I want to replace the lifters as I know they are most likely getting ready to fail I figure at that point may as well slide a cam in it. This car was well taken care of I know the cop that drove it from a small beach town near me it was well maintained has 90K miles on it. What is a decent cam that is still somewhat manageable to tune? I plan to delete the MDS and I know I will have to limit the VVT. The car has the 308 gear option as well. I would like to get this thing in the 12s it has run low 13s already.
Last edited by biff426; 04/18/20 05:40 PM.
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: biff426]
#2715722
11/14/19 01:44 PM
11/14/19 01:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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The stock 6.4 cam is great, I have swapped them into eagle 5.7s and they work great with no need to limit the VVT or even delete the MDS, you get the best of all worlds. They recently increased the price by double butt it is still a steal compared to aftermarket stuff. They work with stock springs and will still give a good increase in performance even before you tune it. With a tune they turn a 5.7 into an animal. Also don't listen to the MDS naysayers, I see lifters go bad frequently in 3/4 and 1 ton trucks that have no MDS system and I see bad ones in the non MDS lobes in the MDS engines, actually seems the MDS lifter lasts longer. I have torn apart far more of these engines than most of the youtubers and internet forum chatters who heard of a guy who knew a guy who had a bad MDS lifter.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: biff426]
#2715823
11/14/19 06:15 PM
11/14/19 06:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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I don't know what "mixed results" one could get from a 6.4 cam, they work great, better in fact then a lot of the similar sized aftermarket cams.
MDS will not affect power, it is not functioning when your engine is making more than about 30 HP. The MDS cam makes a tiny bit more peak HP and the NON MDS makes a tiny bit more elsewhere but that is the only difference.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: biff426]
#2715824
11/14/19 06:17 PM
11/14/19 06:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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The stock 5.7 springs work fine, nearly identical spring pressure to a 6.4 spring, if you are concern about it buy the 6.4 springs, they drop right onto the head with no changes. 6.4 springs do cost about $200 where the 5.7 springs are $50.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: biff426]
#2716583
11/16/19 11:26 PM
11/16/19 11:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 554 Mesa , Az
Jambbii
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 554
Mesa , Az
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I did the cam swap in my wife's durango r/t per Dave's recommendation. I had the heads off and for 270 bucks for cam and springs I figured why not. It is a pretty good boost. In my opinion it needs a tune to take full advantage of it. Have about 6k miles on the swap. No issues so far!
70 Challenger 1960 Town Wagon P Pump 24v cummins project 06 Mega 3500 Drw 2wd 12 Durango R/T 18 Power Wagon 67 A100
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: Jambbii]
#2716998
11/18/19 01:38 AM
11/18/19 01:38 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,243 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,243
Bend,OR USA
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Are you guys degreeing these new cams or just aligning the dots? HRD, how much lift and duration are they different?
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2717218
11/18/19 03:32 PM
11/18/19 03:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,552 Michigan
Kiddart
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,552
Michigan
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Cab, I just lined up the dots per what a friend of mine told me to do. It runs really good. I have heard some have degreed them in and they did not run as good? If its good from the factory I figured it was good enough for me
Thank you Kiddart
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: Kiddart]
#2717378
11/19/19 01:31 AM
11/19/19 01:31 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,566 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,566
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Cab, I just lined up the dots per what a friend of mine told me to do. It runs really good. I have heard some have degreed them in and they did not run as good? If its good from the factory I figured it was good enough for me That's assuming replacement parts are the same as the parts they build them out of and in my experience, that's not always a safe assumption. Kevin
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: Twostick]
#2717541
11/19/19 02:16 PM
11/19/19 02:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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The computer degrees it in real time. I am curious how people are "degreeing" these cams unless they lock down the phaser (dumb idea).
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: HotRodDave]
#2717547
11/19/19 02:30 PM
11/19/19 02:30 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,566 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,566
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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The computer degrees it in real time. I am curious how people are "degreeing" these cams unless they lock down the phaser (dumb idea). I didn't realize it was a VVT engine. So how do you verify that the camshaft and the ECM agree where the ICL etc is? Kevin
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: Twostick]
#2717599
11/19/19 04:25 PM
11/19/19 04:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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I suppose you could lock a phaser down in the full advance position (it's static position butt it is spring loaded so it may change with real valve springs on it) and degree it that way, I have done it that way when I lock the cam permanently butt they seem to always be dead on unlike old school cams, it is a little more critical to have it exactly where it needs to be to prevent check engine lights from misfires and incorrect AF ratios from bad MAP readings or pre-ignition from too much cylinder pressure. Modern computers are much more sensitive to things being slightly out of wack. I sacrificed a spare cam phaser for such activities.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: HotRodDave]
#2726924
12/25/19 09:49 PM
12/25/19 09:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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HotRodDave, that spring info you gave is wrong. The 6.4 installed height is taller than the 5.7. A 6.4 spring CB is around 1.4. When installed at a 1.98 in an Eagle head you would be right on CB with a 6.4 cam.
Another thing, the 5.7s springs CB measurements are all over the place. From 1.30 to 1.37. However, the stock mopar springs have really stout pressures.
Last edited by sixpackgut; 12/25/19 09:51 PM.
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: sixpackgut]
#2728408
12/30/19 09:02 PM
12/30/19 09:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 194 Springtown Pa
Ray408G3Hemi
member
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member
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 194
Springtown Pa
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HotRodDave, that spring info you gave is wrong. The 6.4 installed height is taller than the 5.7. A 6.4 spring CB is around 1.4. When installed at a 1.98 in an Eagle head you would be right on CB with a 6.4 cam.
Another thing, the 5.7s springs CB measurements are all over the place. From 1.30 to 1.37. However, the stock mopar springs have really stout pressures. Stock as deviled OEM heads , installed heights ....... Apache Intake 2.055 Exhaust 2.020 Eagle Intake 1.990 Exhaust 2.000..................When we did my 09 ram we removed the factory 0.081 spacer on a Eagle 5.7 and used a .030 shim to make give me some breathing room Part # P5160074 is the Mopar performance spring for the Eagle heads that has a max lift of .625 designed to work with stock 5.7 keepers and locks, they are $280ish from Summit and 240ish from https://www.moparpartsgiant.com/parts/mopar-accessories_spring_valve-p5160074.html
1963 Thunderbolt 496FE 10.80 (still a work in progress) 1968 Mustang slow a$$ 428 FE 1971 Boss 351 Mustang 11.20@115mph 1993 Lightning 10.61 @ 129mph 408Ci A3 headed NA 1996 Viper GTS 2001 Lightning 8.99 @ 155MPH 5.4 Mod Motor 2009 Ram 9.65@144MPH 463CI G3 NA 2010 Challenger 9.91 @ 139MPH 408CI G3ci NA 2019 F150 (local dealer's Lightning package) ..11.90s
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: Ray408G3Hemi]
#2728631
12/31/19 06:15 PM
12/31/19 06:15 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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I just went out to measure an eagle head. No shim I got 2.015. It came with .040 shim. I have a few .080 shims on the peg board so they must have made a change somewhere. Anyway 2.015-.570=1.445. So I really don't see how you can run a 6.4 spring safely at all
Also CB on the one spring out of this eagle head i just checked was 1.39
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: sixpackgut]
#2728651
12/31/19 08:00 PM
12/31/19 08:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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I have 6.4 springs on my eagle heads with an SRT8 cam and it runs great, no coil bind and this is not the first one by any means. I could see daylight between every coil with the lifter bled down then shimmed solid with feeler gauges. Theoretical and actual are frequently different. I have 2 .040 shims in there, 3 and I could barely see light through a couple of the coils.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: HotRodDave]
#2728806
01/01/20 03:12 AM
01/01/20 03:12 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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I have 6.4 springs on my eagle heads with an SRT8 cam and it runs great, no coil bind and this is not the first one by any means. I could see daylight between every coil with the lifter bled down then shimmed solid with feeler gauges. Theoretical and actual are frequently different. I have 2 .040 shims in there, 3 and I could barely see light through a couple of the coils. Your saying you have .080 shim with springs that came out of 6.4 heads? And cam lift is .571 correct?
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: Cam recommenations
[Re: sixpackgut]
#2729091
01/01/20 06:03 PM
01/01/20 06:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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The springs are what the local dodge dealer gave me when I asked for dodge challenger 6.4 valve springs and a stock 6.4 VVT MDS cam. I should see if I can find the part number.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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