Cam recommenations updated 4/18

So my son has a 2011 charger 5.7 ex police car. I want to replace the lifters as I know they are most likely getting ready to fail I figure at that point may as well slide a cam in it. This car was well taken care of I know the cop that drove it from a small beach town near me it was well maintained has 90K miles on it. What is a decent cam that is still somewhat manageable to tune? I plan to delete the MDS and I know I will have to limit the VVT. The car has the 308 gear option as well. I would like to get this thing in the 12s it has run low 13s already.

The stock 6.4 cam is great, I have swapped them into eagle 5.7s and they work great with no need to limit the VVT or even delete the MDS, you get the best of all worlds. They recently increased the price by double butt it is still a steal compared to aftermarket stuff. They work with stock springs and will still give a good increase in performance even before you tune it. With a tune they turn a 5.7 into an animal. Also don't listen to the MDS naysayers, I see lifters go bad frequently in 3/4 and 1 ton trucks that have no MDS system and I see bad ones in the non MDS lobes in the MDS engines, actually seems the MDS lifter lasts longer. I have torn apart far more of these engines than most of the youtubers and internet forum chatters who heard of a guy who knew a guy who had a bad MDS lifter.

I have read mixed results with the 6.4 cam but it does seem like the easiest route to take. You have done it with the stock springs with no issues? I was planning to put a set of springs on it anyway and get it tuned. I am not concerned about the MDS lifters going bad so much as making more tuned power without the MDS. The people I have talked to all said they make more power without the MDS. This thing is not a driver where I am concerned about fuel mileage so ditching the MDS really doesn't hurt my feelings.

I don't know what "mixed results" one could get from a 6.4 cam, they work great, better in fact then a lot of the similar sized aftermarket cams.

MDS will not affect power, it is not functioning when your engine is making more than about 30 HP. The MDS cam makes a tiny bit more peak HP and the NON MDS makes a tiny bit more elsewhere but that is the only difference.

The stock 5.7 springs work fine, nearly identical spring pressure to a 6.4 spring, if you are concern about it buy the 6.4 springs, they drop right onto the head with no changes. 6.4 springs do cost about $200 where the 5.7 springs are $50.

Thanks for the info I have been considering the 6.4 cam.

I did the cam swap in my wife's durango r/t per Dave's recommendation. I had the heads off and for 270 bucks for cam and springs I figured why not. It is a pretty good boost. In my opinion it needs a tune to take full advantage of it. Have about 6k miles on the swap. No issues so far!

Are you guys degreeing these new cams or just aligning the dots?
HRD, how much lift and duration are they different?

So the Eagle and apache have the same installed height? I am thinking of just buying the 6.4 cam and springs and doing it. Appreciate all the info I have just done 6.1 and apache stuff never dug into an eagle head. Also I was going to put a new chain on it is it recommended to replace the sprockets and tensioners or is just a chain a acceptable. I really didn't want to get into a million dollar upgrade if I could help it I have 2 other gen 3 hemis in the mix right now.

Cab, I just lined up the dots per what a friend of mine told me to do. It runs really good. I have heard some have degreed them in and they did not run as good? If its good from the factory I figured it was good enough for me

That's assuming replacement parts are the same as the parts they build them out of and in my experience, that's not always a safe assumption.

Kevin

The computer degrees it in real time. I am curious how people are "degreeing" these cams unless they lock down the phaser (dumb idea).

I didn't realize it was a VVT engine. So how do you verify that the camshaft and the ECM agree where the ICL etc is?

Kevin

I suppose you could lock a phaser down in the full advance position (it's static position butt it is spring loaded so it may change with real valve springs on it) and degree it that way, I have done it that way when I lock the cam permanently butt they seem to always be dead on unlike old school cams, it is a little more critical to have it exactly where it needs to be to prevent check engine lights from misfires and incorrect AF ratios from bad MAP readings or pre-ignition from too much cylinder pressure. Modern computers are much more sensitive to things being slightly out of wack. I sacrificed a spare cam phaser for such activities.

HotRodDave, that spring info you gave is wrong. The 6.4 installed height is taller than the 5.7. A 6.4 spring CB is around 1.4. When installed at a 1.98 in an Eagle head you would be right on CB with a 6.4 cam.

Another thing, the 5.7s springs CB measurements are all over the place. From 1.30 to 1.37. However, the stock mopar springs have really stout pressures.

Stock as deviled OEM heads , installed heights ....... Apache Intake 2.055 Exhaust 2.020
Eagle Intake 1.990 Exhaust 2.000..................When we did my 09 ram we removed the factory 0.081 spacer on a Eagle 5.7 and used a .030 shim to make give me some breathing room



Part # P5160074 is the Mopar performance spring for the Eagle heads that has a max lift of .625 designed to work with stock 5.7 keepers and locks, they are $280ish from Summit and 240ish from https://www.moparpartsgiant.com/parts/mopar-accessories_spring_valve-p5160074.html

I just went out to measure an eagle head. No shim I got 2.015. It came with .040 shim. I have a few .080 shims on the peg board so they must have made a change somewhere. Anyway
2.015-.570=1.445. So I really don't see how you can run a 6.4 spring safely at all

Also CB on the one spring out of this eagle head i just checked was 1.39

I have 6.4 springs on my eagle heads with an SRT8 cam and it runs great, no coil bind and this is not the first one by any means. I could see daylight between every coil with the lifter bled down then shimmed solid with feeler gauges. Theoretical and actual are frequently different. I have 2 .040 shims in there, 3 and I could barely see light through a couple of the coils.

Your saying you have .080 shim with springs that came out of 6.4 heads? And cam lift is .571 correct?

The springs are what the local dodge dealer gave me when I asked for dodge challenger 6.4 valve springs and a stock 6.4 VVT MDS cam. I should see if I can find the part number.

Apache valve spring at coil bind

All I know is what I did and have done in the past and it works great, perhaps the actual valve lift don't match theoretical, wouldn't be the first time, my good dial indicator sprouted legs and runnoft and now the engine is all together and running. The first one I did is in a 3/4 ton work truck that now has 30,000 hard miles on it and still running great. I know my methods might not always be the most scientific butt the results are that it works. Do you have an assembled engine with that cam you can see how much lift is lost in real world?

I have a 6.4 truck motor. Im not sure what size cam is in it. It would be very hard to check. I would need to take it apart and put checker pushrods in it and my shimmed lifters and Im not sure what the cam lift even is on the truck motors.

Honesty, Im at a complete loss. I wouldn't think you would have got 3 miles out of it.
2.015-.080-1.40=.535

the 6.4 truck motor has a smaller cam, in between the 6.4 car and 5.7 eagle cam, that is not what I am running. I did have a valve job done on these heads (didn't really need it so just a light touch up) butt most of the other ones I have done did not get a VJ, just cam and spring swap. I pretty much set em all up the same way, shim it to basically coil bind and remove .040 or .050.

Unless Im doing the math wrong somehow, there is no way it can work. 40 thousands of problems before full lift is even reached

I'm terrible at math so don't ask me that part, that is part of the reason I do it the way I do.

I got to fart with the VVT hopefully tommorow, maybe if I got enough time I'll pull the valve cover and try to get a measurement of the actual (not theoretical) lift.

I just got a used 392 cam for cheap so now I'm really interested in what y'all converge on. Sounds like Ray #1 says no way, Ray #2 used the stock eagle springs but 1/2 the OEM shim height, (or did you used the springs you linked?) and HRD went with 6.4 springs and shims and also made it work?

check check and double check. I am no good at math so I use the method I described, seems pretty fool proof in my little brain. I have also used them in 5.7s with out pulling the springs and just leaving the stockers in there.

After some research I ordered this spring 68277306AA they were $4,69 per spring. I am told these are the mopar performance spring they sell in the kit for the 5.7 and 6.4. I have not received them yet but when I do I will report on them. I plan to check the pressures etc. I am going to use this spring with the 6.4 MDS cam in the 5.7.

Where did you order from because summit and jegs the price is double and triple what you paid. And please report back with coil bind numbers.

For my customers running stock cams such as a 6.1 or 6.4 cam, i have been using stock ls7 springs. Problem with the ls7 springs is they are down on pressure compared to stock mopar springs. But I think even the PAC springs are down on pressure compared to stock springs.

For balls out, I only use the PSI springs. I have used the Comp conical springs in some LS applications. The Comp conical springs have incredible pressures for a single spring

On my 5.7 in my 09 we used the stock Eagle springs, when I had the heads redone , we went with the Mopar springs., I'm home today so I'll get a measurement on the spare MDS SRT cam I have .

https://www.factorychryslerparts.com/products/SPRING-VALVE/13216977/68277306AA.html

$4 there but 150% of that in shipping for some reason.

shipping is a little better with these guys $17

https://parts.moparonlineparts.com/index.php?p=cart

Eastcoast Moparts $69.92 including shipping they delivered today

is their a PN for these shims y'all have been talking about?

Coil bind on these is 1.295 no pressure numbers yet

1.98-.04 shim -1.30 coil bind is .640 -.050, good for .590

I like it. I'll start using them

Could you check coilbind on a bunch of them? For consistency

I came up with .574 (Average) on all the intake lobes,

Ray did you check actual valve lift with real springs, check springs or just theoretical at the lobe?

Just the lobe..... and base circle , with rocker shaft flex and pre-load in the lifter I would think actual lift is some where in the .560 range, I think pre-load is .060-080 I can't imagine that it would lose more than .01-02 of actual lift in a running engine. I could be wrong I'm a parts assembler when it comes to engines , not builder like some of the guys ...... I know the stock shaft can flex up .0.010

I checked 12 springs they were all really close .005 -.010 at the most

pressures were really consistent @ 1.95 they are 115 and at 1.40 they are 365 I think for a daily driver street car with .580ish lift these things are perfect and at 4.69 each I don't think you can beat it.

I appreciate the feedback

They sound very similar to the LS7 springs I've neen using

Ok so finished up the swap today a couple things I noted on the higher mileage engine. This car is an ex police package 2011 charger. I have all the maint records it was well maintained. 1st the small hole in the intake rockers on 6 of the 8 were worn shut. the valve tip was not getting oil on those and it beat the valve tip up pretty bad. I replaced the all the valves and rocker arms. The new rockers have the oil holes chamfered vs the old ones, MOPAR figured out I guess that with miles it started having oiling issues. I used the SRT MDS cam. I had pushrods out of the BGE 6.4 that I put in my 66 only had 10 miles on them so I used them. Note the BGE and Eagle head hemis have the same length pushrods I measured them. I used the springs above with new lifters. I replaced the timing chain and tensioner/guides. Man this thing sounds good !!! It feels the same until about 4K then it pulls much harder. No tune yet but there is a noticeable difference.

anyone know when the revision to the rockers happened?

Finally got the car on the dyno with just the cam and springs and a cat back exhaust no tuning at all it made 373HP to the rear wheels @ 5500. Tuned on it and the peak didn't change but we picked up average 25-30HP in the 2500-4500 range. I don't think you can beat this swap for the money.