B block 499 buid
#2699214
09/20/19 12:25 PM
09/20/19 12:25 PM
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 114 Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
MrMayhem
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 114
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
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So I have been saving my pennies to purchase the bottom end for the 400 based stroker and I have been looking real hard at the 440 Source 512 Kit. Just last night I was surfing the Summit Racing website and came across a 499 cu in package they put together that is supposed to produce 650-ish HP on pump gas and an ISKY .505 hydro cam. The kit seems pretty well complete and the article written on the build seems legit but I have a few questions that maybe someone can answer better than I... First being, the 644HP seems generous given the cam used with untouched Eddy heads... Maybe I'm wrong but from other proven builds I have read about this seems to be more like a 575hp build... I have spoke with Hughes engines on cam choices in the past and the cam profiles we spoke about were a bit more aggressive than the Isky the kit comes with. Second will be the debate over the rod length and compression height of the piston that requires a bridge for the oil rings. Is this areal concern for a street/strip car? The parts chosen in the kit seem to be of good quality but I really dont know much about the SCAT crank and Rods vs the 440 Source thing. Are these the same parts sold by different vendors? Is the quality better from one vendor over the other? Here are the links: https://www.onallcylinders.com/2015...ur-the-dyno-results-and-an-efi-surprise/ https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-csummst49901 https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/street-hero-mopar-499-combos
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Re: B block 499 buid
[Re: MrMayhem]
#2699217
09/20/19 12:45 PM
09/20/19 12:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,027 MN
JERICOGTX
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,027
MN
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Would be a decent kit if they sold it less dampner, and cam.
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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Re: B block 499 buid
[Re: MrMayhem]
#2699228
09/20/19 01:16 PM
09/20/19 01:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195
Bend,OR USA
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I've never seen a carb change drop torque and increase HP on a pump gas motor that had less than 10.5 to 1 compression Much less going from a carb to a EFI throttle body, something doesn't make any since to me on that I've built and dyno tested a bunch of BB Mopars with stock stroke all the way up to 4.5 stroke with less than 10.5 to1 compression, all of them always made more torque that HP on pump gas My last pump gas 400 stroker motor with 10.29 to 1 compression, 4.375 X4.300 stroke made more torque (around 42 ft. Lbs) than HP until I switched heads and increase the comp.ratio to 10.78 to 1 which ended up making more HP than torque on a DTS engine dyno in Klamath falls OR at 4300 Ft actual altitude using 91 octane non ethanol Oregon pump swill. I switch carbs to run pump E75 and jetted that carb for max power and ended up dropping 11 HP and picked up 35 Ft. lbs. of torque My message is you can make big power with the right heads and compression ratio on pump fuel
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 09/20/19 01:18 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: B block 499 buid
[Re: AndyF]
#2699468
09/21/19 10:07 AM
09/21/19 10:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
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I've never seen that kit before. I have no idea how they got more than 600 hp out of stock Edelbrock heads with that cam. I don't think that combo would be anywhere close to that power level. Here’s how I would say it........ if you built that exact combo, and brought it here to dyno........ and you were expecting anything even close to 644hp......... you would be very very disappointed with the numbers on the dyno sheet.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: B block 499 buid
[Re: AndyF]
#2699528
09/21/19 01:53 PM
09/21/19 01:53 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511 Temperance, MI
68 HEMI GTS
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511
Temperance, MI
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I’ve built both conbo’s, 499 and 511. I will say the 499 combo is now getting a 511 kit for the already mentioned reasons.
68 Dart GTS "HEMI" 10.30 @ 131 pump gas street car 3780# 69 Roadrunner 511 six pack 10.92 drive to track street car
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Re: B block 499 buid
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2699679
09/21/19 11:04 PM
09/21/19 11:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195
Bend,OR USA
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My first pump gas 400 stroker motor(4.250 stroke with 4.375 bore) had a true 9.25 to 1 compression ratio on all 8 cylinders, a set of mildy ported and polished 906 heads with 11/32 stem 2.14 intake and 1.81 ex. valves, a low deck Eddy 6 pack intake with stock type 440 vacuum six pack carbs and a Comp Cams solid roller that had 260 degrees @.050 on the intake lobes with .420 lift and 266@ .050 on the exhaust lobes ground on a 108 LSA and installed 1 degree advanced on the intake lobes. I ended up using a set of haralnad sharp 1.86 ratio rockers on the motor also That motor made 612 HP at 5500 RPM and 644 Ft. Lbs. torque at 4500 RPM on the Carb shop dyno in Ontario, CA around 800 ft. altitude. I put that motor in my old street Duster that weighed right at 3450 Lbs. wet with me in it and it ran 10.69 ET at 124.+ MPH corked up on Oregon 91 octane pump swill at Woodburn, OR in October of 2005 it had a set of CAT BB Chevy type 6.800 long H beam rods with a custom set of Ross Pistons that had a 22.0 CC dish in them, nothing trick All BB Mopars need a lot of air and fuel to make good HP, concentrate on the heads camshaft, intake and carb size (850 CFM + )
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: B block 499 buid
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2700045
09/23/19 08:48 AM
09/23/19 08:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I've never seen that kit before. I have no idea how they got more than 600 hp out of stock Edelbrock heads with that cam. I don't think that combo would be anywhere close to that power level. Here’s how I would say it........ if you built that exact combo, and brought it here to dyno........ and you were expecting anything even close to 644hp......... you would be very very disappointed with the numbers on the dyno sheet. Everything I've seen on Koffel's dyno makes outrageous numbers. Nothing against Koffel's, but their dyno needs some calibrating. I laughed out loud when I first read the article on that build.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: B block 499 buid
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2700056
09/23/19 09:22 AM
09/23/19 09:22 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
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I've never seen that kit before. I have no idea how they got more than 600 hp out of stock Edelbrock heads with that cam. I don't think that combo would be anywhere close to that power level. Here’s how I would say it........ if you built that exact combo, and brought it here to dyno........ and you were expecting anything even close to 644hp......... you would be very very disappointed with the numbers on the dyno sheet. Everything I've seen on Koffel's dyno makes outrageous numbers. Nothing against Koffel's, but their dyno needs some calibrating. I laughed out loud when I first read the article on that build. Lol. It doesn’t need calibrated. It’s reading EXACTLY where they want it to. Give me 3 minutes and my flowbench can make me look like the best head Porter in the world. Big numbers big sales.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: B block 499 buid
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2700058
09/23/19 09:23 AM
09/23/19 09:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I've never seen that kit before. I have no idea how they got more than 600 hp out of stock Edelbrock heads with that cam. I don't think that combo would be anywhere close to that power level. Here’s how I would say it........ if you built that exact combo, and brought it here to dyno........ and you were expecting anything even close to 644hp......... you would be very very disappointed with the numbers on the dyno sheet. Everything I've seen on Koffel's dyno makes outrageous numbers. Nothing against Koffel's, but their dyno needs some calibrating. I laughed out loud when I first read the article on that build. Lol. It doesn’t need calibrated. It’s reading EXACTLY where they want it to. Give me 3 minutes and my flowbench can make me look like the best head Porter in the world. Big numbers big sales. OK, it needs to be CORRECTLY calibrated, lol.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: B block 499 buid
[Re: MrMayhem]
#2700983
09/25/19 11:54 PM
09/25/19 11:54 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Those numbers seem about 100 HP too high?
In most cases, you would be better off using the 512 cid stroker kit. The smaller rod journal size and rod bearings make the kit fit better than the Mopar sized rods.
On the 4.15 stroke / 499" kit, I have been running one for awhile and haven't noticed any issues, but It is coming out of the car this winter to be freshened so I will check for piston wear. Not sure if your building for street / pump gas, or race / race gas?
The ring support on the 499" kit is nothing to worry about, except to check there are no burrs around where the pin was machined. I had that issue, the ring support was not sitting down flat, and the oil rings were too tight. Easy fix to de-burr around the pin holes. That was the source kit with ICON pistons. When I built my 499 with 440 source kit, only the pickup tube boss needed to be clearanced. Not sure if the different year block has anything to do about that. I used a '71 230 block (wasn't looking for that specifically, just happened to be what the guy had when I bought it?)
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