B block 499 buid

So I have been saving my pennies to purchase the bottom end for the 400 based stroker and I have been looking real hard at the 440 Source 512 Kit. Just last night I was surfing the Summit Racing website and came across a 499 cu in package they put together that is supposed to produce 650-ish HP on pump gas and an ISKY .505 hydro cam. The kit seems pretty well complete and the article written on the build seems legit but I have a few questions that maybe someone can answer better than I...

First being, the 644HP seems generous given the cam used with untouched Eddy heads... Maybe I'm wrong but from other proven builds I have read about this seems to be more like a 575hp build... I have spoke with Hughes engines on cam choices in the past and the cam profiles we spoke about were a bit more aggressive than the Isky the kit comes with.

Second will be the debate over the rod length and compression height of the piston that requires a bridge for the oil rings. Is this areal concern for a street/strip car?

The parts chosen in the kit seem to be of good quality but I really dont know much about the SCAT crank and Rods vs the 440 Source thing. Are these the same parts sold by different vendors? Is the quality better from one vendor over the other?

Here are the links: https://www.onallcylinders.com/2015...ur-the-dyno-results-and-an-efi-surprise/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-csummst49901

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/street-hero-mopar-499-combos

Would be a decent kit if they sold it less dampner, and cam.

I've never seen a carb change drop torque and increase HP on a pump gas motor that had less than 10.5 to 1 compression
Much less going from a carb to a EFI throttle body, something doesn't make any since to me on that
I've built and dyno tested a bunch of BB Mopars with stock stroke all the way up to 4.5 stroke with less than 10.5 to1 compression, all of them always made more torque that HP on pump gas
My last pump gas 400 stroker motor with 10.29 to 1 compression, 4.375 X4.300 stroke made more torque (around 42 ft. Lbs) than HP until I switched heads and increase the comp.ratio to 10.78 to 1 which ended up making more HP than torque on a DTS engine dyno in Klamath falls OR at 4300 Ft actual altitude using 91 octane non ethanol Oregon pump swill. I switch carbs to run pump E75 and jetted that carb for max power and ended up dropping 11 HP and picked up 35 Ft. lbs. of torque
My message is you can make big power with the right heads and compression ratio on pump fuel

i ran a 400/499 race engine a few years back, the pistons were real short & the 7000 rpm made the short piston skirts wear real fast. About 3 freshen ups & those pistons were trash. I have a 400/512 motor in my street/strip car, Molnar rods & Crank, (not a fan of the junk Source or Scat brands), the pistons are lasting much longer, longer skirts seem to be the trick. With Stage 6 MW heads & a 272@0.050 roller cam & a 850 carb with 10.5 cr, this made 645 RWHP on a mobile chassis dyno. gets my full factory optioned 71 cuda running 10.5@125mph. Is this the kind of performance you were looking for?

I've never seen that kit before. I have no idea how they got more than 600 hp out of stock Edelbrock heads with that cam. I don't think that combo would be anywhere close to that power level.

That combo would make more like 544hp. For my 512 I bought my own parts and went with a
4.25 stroke, longer 6.7 rod, and a 1.12ch piston. Which is a shelf piston for the 4.15 kits. Longer rod and lighter piston. I think the kits should come this way. Rather than the 4.25, 6.535, 1.32ch.
650hp with a similar combo will take a fully ported head and likely more camshaft in the real world

Here’s how I would say it........ if you built that exact combo, and brought it here to dyno........ and you were expecting anything even close to 644hp......... you would be very very disappointed with the numbers on the dyno sheet.

Yeah I don't know what went on with that dyno test but I can guarantee that out of the box Edelbrock heads will not make 600 hp with a dinky 505 cam. I'd think something in low to mid 500 range might be more likely.

A 500 inch short block with TF 240 heads can easily make 600 hp. I've made more than 700 hp with box stock TF 240 heads but that was with a fairly aggressive solid roller cam and a ported intake. I don't think the Edelbrock heads out of the box can be pushed anywhere close to that, they just don't flow that well.

I don't have any problem with the kit that Summit is selling, I just think their power claims are way off and I don't know why. That number is so high for those parts I would've thought someone would've stepped back and double checked what was going on. Perhaps the correction factor got entered into the computer wrong.

I’ve built both conbo’s, 499 and 511. I will say the 499 combo is now getting a 511 kit for the already mentioned reasons.

My first pump gas 400 stroker motor(4.250 stroke with 4.375 bore) had a true 9.25 to 1 compression ratio on all 8 cylinders, a set of mildy ported and polished 906 heads with 11/32 stem 2.14 intake and 1.81 ex. valves, a low deck Eddy 6 pack intake with stock type 440 vacuum six pack carbs and a Comp Cams solid roller that had 260 degrees @.050 on the intake lobes with .420 lift and 266@ .050 on the exhaust lobes ground on a 108 LSA and installed 1 degree advanced on the intake lobes. I ended up using a set of haralnad sharp 1.86 ratio rockers on the motor also That motor made 612 HP at 5500 RPM and 644 Ft. Lbs. torque at 4500 RPM on the Carb shop dyno in Ontario, CA around 800 ft. altitude.
I put that motor in my old street Duster that weighed right at 3450 Lbs. wet with me in it and it ran 10.69 ET at 124.+ MPH corked up on Oregon 91 octane pump swill at Woodburn, OR in October of 2005
it had a set of CAT BB Chevy type 6.800 long H beam rods with a custom set of Ross Pistons that had a 22.0 CC dish in them, nothing trick
All BB Mopars need a lot of air and fuel to make good HP, concentrate on the heads camshaft, intake and carb size (850 CFM + )

Everything I've seen on Koffel's dyno makes outrageous numbers. Nothing against Koffel's, but their dyno needs some calibrating.
I laughed out loud when I first read the article on that build.

Lol. It doesn’t need calibrated. It’s reading EXACTLY where they want it to. Give me 3 minutes and my flowbench can make me look like the best head Porter in the world. Big numbers big sales.

OK, it needs to be CORRECTLY calibrated, lol.

I can testify about miscalibrated engine dyno giving bogus readings, Been there done that
I learned from that to look only at the differences between pulls for guidance, not use those numbers as the gospel
I now use the time slip and spark plug for at the track results

Those numbers seem about 100 HP too high?

In most cases, you would be better off using the 512 cid stroker kit. The smaller rod journal size and rod bearings make the kit fit better than the Mopar sized rods.

On the 4.15 stroke / 499" kit, I have been running one for awhile and haven't noticed any issues, but It is coming out of the car this winter to be freshened so I will check for piston wear.
Not sure if your building for street / pump gas, or race / race gas?

The ring support on the 499" kit is nothing to worry about, except to check there are no burrs around where the pin was machined. I had that issue, the ring support was not sitting down flat, and the oil rings were too tight.
Easy fix to de-burr around the pin holes. That was the source kit with ICON pistons.
When I built my 499 with 440 source kit, only the pickup tube boss needed to be clearanced. Not sure if the different year block has anything to do about that. I used a '71 230 block (wasn't looking for that specifically, just happened to be what the guy had when I bought it?)

I've had to deal with the oil pick up issues on several builds when using the stock rod journal size (2.375) and rods with the 4.150 stroke cranks, not so on using the 4.25 stroke cranks using the smaller 2.200 BB Chevy rod journal sizes (another gain is less reciprocating weight also) I do have to grind around .040 or so off the top of the oil pick up boss in the block but nothing on the pick up tubes

sorry, that is what I was trying to say, the boss of the block where the tube screws in,

In the other hand, the 440/505" stroker I just built, I did have to clearance the tube because it was one of those tubes with the adapter looking part on the end of the 1/2" tube