Re: BB head flow?
[Re: mopower440]
#2668235
06/21/19 07:30 AM
06/21/19 07:30 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,333 Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,333
Prospect, PA
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Hands down, the “best” of the std port/std port height ootb heads are the Trick Flows.
Everything else is a pretty big step behind that.
Between the Ede, Sidewinder, ProMaxx, Speedmaster, Stealth heads...... ootb..... the Stealths flow the least. Sure, they can easily be tweaked for improvements....... but so can the others.
The Ede heads come with better hardware than the copycats.
My preference for all of those heads is the Ede head. I have more faith in the integrity of the USA made casting vs the import casting, and I trust the hardware.
If you can swing the $$$$...... get the TF’s. Dont know if i could swing the TF's..I was reading some old thread where you posted flow numbers and the E-street was dead last, so that kind of bums be out on the edelbrocks..What needs to be done to the stealths to make them trustable and reliable? I'm a little confused. What exactly is your goal? Sounds like the criteria is the highest flowing head. Consider starting with a goal for the car. What does it run now? What do you want it to run, and what is your budget? You cannot pick the appropriate head flow/$ in a vacuum of everything else. Here is the way it generally works: the more you spend on the heads, the more they will flow. Depending on your current performance/power, any more flow above what the Eddys have might simply be diminishing returns.
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: BSB67]
#2668242
06/21/19 08:01 AM
06/21/19 08:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863 middle Tennessee
mopower440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
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Hands down, the “best” of the std port/std port height ootb heads are the Trick Flows.
Everything else is a pretty big step behind that.
Between the Ede, Sidewinder, ProMaxx, Speedmaster, Stealth heads...... ootb..... the Stealths flow the least. Sure, they can easily be tweaked for improvements....... but so can the others.
The Ede heads come with better hardware than the copycats.
My preference for all of those heads is the Ede head. I have more faith in the integrity of the USA made casting vs the import casting, and I trust the hardware.
If you can swing the $$$$...... get the TF’s. Dont know if i could swing the TF's..I was reading some old thread where you posted flow numbers and the E-street was dead last, so that kind of bums be out on the edelbrocks..What needs to be done to the stealths to make them trustable and reliable? I'm a little confused. What exactly is your goal? Sounds like the criteria is the highest flowing head. Consider starting with a goal for the car. What does it run now? What do you want it to run, and what is your budget? You cannot pick the appropriate head flow/$ in a vacuum of everything else. Here is the way it generally works: the more you spend on the heads, the more they will flow. Depending on your current performance/power, any more flow above what the Eddys have might simply be diminishing returns. I didn't realize how much more the TF's were than the eddies and stealths until I got to looking last night. The e-streets and stealths aren't too far apart in price and THATS the price range I will be looking at, unless I were to stumble upon some used TF's at a deal. I just cant swing the money for the TF's due to having family to care for and all. So I guess I should say, with an eddie/stealth budget, what would be the best flowing..but after reading Dwaynes chart on another post, it looks like the stealths, but im not the expert so I will keep listening here.and I know there are other heads in that price range too. Also, what are the 'super stealths'? I did not see these on the 440 source website...remember also, I am willing to change the cam for a better one too.
Last edited by mopower440; 06/21/19 08:11 AM.
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: dynamite]
#2668247
06/21/19 08:33 AM
06/21/19 08:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863 middle Tennessee
mopower440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
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Best deal I got was with Marsh sidewinder's..I had my RB 906 heads with mild pocket porting ,swapped them for otb sidewinders ....The motor was tuned as best it would run..11.8... I bolted on the Sidwinders with no change in tuning and picked up 2 tenths.. after dialing in got 11.3.. What kind of HP and Torque increase would that be? That sounds like quite a bit!
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2668270
06/21/19 09:53 AM
06/21/19 09:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,531 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,531
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Between the Ede, Sidewinder, ProMaxx, Speedmaster, Stealth heads...... ootb..... the Stealths flow the least. If you’re leaning towards the Stealths because of the cost that’s fine....... but you’re kidding yourself if you think they’re the best flowing of that variety of head. They’ll still be a nice step up from untouched 452’s. If those are what your budget allows....... just get ‘em. Lots of people have...... and are happy with them. On my bench an ootb Stealth is usually in the mid-250’s intake/mid-170’s exhaust @.500 lift. Ootb(zero porting) Sidewinders/Speedmasters are basically the same. 346/902/452 heads with 2.14/1.81 valves, with a good valve job and the bowls & pinch done by someone who knows what they’re doing..... also basically the same.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: mopower440]
#2668307
06/21/19 11:09 AM
06/21/19 11:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904
Pattison Texas
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Hands down, the “best” of the std port/std port height ootb heads are the Trick Flows.
Everything else is a pretty big step behind that.
Between the Ede, Sidewinder, ProMaxx, Speedmaster, Stealth heads...... ootb..... the Stealths flow the least. Sure, they can easily be tweaked for improvements....... but so can the others.
The Ede heads come with better hardware than the copycats.
My preference for all of those heads is the Ede head. I have more faith in the integrity of the USA made casting vs the import casting, and I trust the hardware.
If you can swing the $$$$...... get the TF’s. Dont know if i could swing the TF's..I was reading some old thread where you posted flow numbers and the E-street was dead last, so that kind of bums be out on the edelbrocks..What needs to be done to the stealths to make them trustable and reliable? I'm a little confused. What exactly is your goal? Sounds like the criteria is the highest flowing head. Consider starting with a goal for the car. What does it run now? What do you want it to run, and what is your budget? You cannot pick the appropriate head flow/$ in a vacuum of everything else. Here is the way it generally works: the more you spend on the heads, the more they will flow. Depending on your current performance/power, any more flow above what the Eddys have might simply be diminishing returns. I didn't realize how much more the TF's were than the eddies and stealths until I got to looking last night. The e-streets and stealths aren't too far apart in price and THATS the price range I will be looking at, unless I were to stumble upon some used TF's at a deal. I just cant swing the money for the TF's due to having family to care for and all. So I guess I should say, with an eddie/stealth budget, what would be the best flowing..but after reading Dwaynes chart on another post, it looks like the stealths, but im not the expert so I will keep listening here.and I know there are other heads in that price range too. Also, what are the 'super stealths'? I did not see these on the 440 source website...remember also, I am willing to change the cam for a better one too. The Stupid Stealths are no long made, they use a special offset intake rocker arm, they were supposed to be a stock appearing race type head & they missed the mark.I have them on my 512 low deck 68 Charger, after a lot of work they flow about the same as the Trick Flow 240.
Last edited by csk; 06/21/19 11:15 AM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2668308
06/21/19 11:15 AM
06/21/19 11:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863 middle Tennessee
mopower440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
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Between the Ede, Sidewinder, ProMaxx, Speedmaster, Stealth heads...... ootb..... the Stealths flow the least. If you’re leaning towards the Stealths because of the cost that’s fine....... but you’re kidding yourself if you think they’re the best flowing of that variety of head. They’ll still be a nice step up from untouched 452’s. If those are what your budget allows....... just get ‘em. Lots of people have...... and are happy with them. On my bench an ootb Stealth is usually in the mid-250’s intake/mid-170’s exhaust @.500 lift. Ootb(zero porting) Sidewinders/Speedmasters are basically the same. 346/902/452 heads with 2.14/1.81 valves, with a good valve job and the bowls & pinch done by someone who knows what they’re doing..... also basically the same. Not the money, its the chart you posted in an old thread I found, it showed the stealths were second best flowing after the trick flows and the e-street dead last in flow..I will look for that thread again and post it back here.
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: BradH]
#2668315
06/21/19 11:33 AM
06/21/19 11:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Has anybody asked the OP what sort of $ he's willing to put out for a cylinder head upgrade? I've always found the money factor to be a good reality check against expectations... even if I've chosen to ignore it. Still seems to be a mi$$ing piece of this puzzle... The reason I bring this up is because the cost of changing may be more than just the heads themselves. Sometimes other things are required, such as: - new head bolts - different length pushrods - different hold-down hardware for rocker arm shafts It all adds up quickly, and what you thought you could do the switch for ends up being short by hundreds of dollars. Just a friendly Public Service Announcement from the "Been There, Done That, Still Paying Down The Visa Card Bill" Club
Last edited by BradH; 06/21/19 12:00 PM.
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: mopower440]
#2668384
06/21/19 02:17 PM
06/21/19 02:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904
Pattison Texas
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Sorry fast, you didnt post it, i got screwed up with my names with all the reading im doing, but here is the post and its close to the bottom https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2057285/Searchpage/4/Main/175727/Words/%2BE-STREET/Search/true/re-trick-flow-vs-stealth-vs-super-stealth-for-505-build.html#Post2057285
Correction to link CLICK HERE
Last edited by csk; 06/21/19 02:18 PM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: CSK]
#2668421
06/21/19 04:07 PM
06/21/19 04:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,531 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,531
So. Burlington, Vt.
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From that thread: Here are some numbers that fast68plymouth has posted. I've restricted the numbers to intake flows up to .500". All tests were done on the same bench, bore and pressure drop. ------ TF240-- Stealth-- MCH Stealth-- BOX RPM-- BOX E-street .100"- 71.6- - - 65-------- 70----- ------- 67--- -- ----62 .200"- 156-- - 144------- 161------ ---- 141--- -- - -122 .300"- 229-- - 207------- 222---- ------ 209 - - ---- 183 .400"- 274.8 - 238------- 263---- ------ 245- ------ 230 .500"- 302.9 - 247------- 289---- ------ 267 - - -- - 262
It’s important to note the E street numbers listed there are for the 75cc version, not the 84cc version(which flow the same as the 84cc RPM). The 84cc version has straight plugs. The 75cc E street has some additional valve shrouding because of how the chamber is pulled in closer to the valves. With some blending, the flow deficit can be mostly eliminated........ for those combinations where the 75cc chamber is a better fit for the application(but don’t want to give up that mid-lift flow).
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2668439
06/21/19 05:09 PM
06/21/19 05:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863 middle Tennessee
mopower440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
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From that thread: Here are some numbers that fast68plymouth has posted. I've restricted the numbers to intake flows up to .500". All tests were done on the same bench, bore and pressure drop. ------ TF240-- Stealth-- MCH Stealth-- BOX RPM-- BOX E-street .100"- 71.6- - - 65-------- 70----- ------- 67--- -- ----62 .200"- 156-- - 144------- 161------ ---- 141--- -- - -122 .300"- 229-- - 207------- 222---- ------ 209 - - ---- 183 .400"- 274.8 - 238------- 263---- ------ 245- ------ 230 .500"- 302.9 - 247------- 289---- ------ 267 - - -- - 262
It’s important to note the E street numbers listed there are for the 75cc version, not the 84cc version(which flow the same as the 84cc RPM). The 84cc version has straight plugs. The 75cc E street has some additional valve shrouding because of how the chamber is pulled in closer to the valves. With some blending, the flow deficit can be mostly eliminated........ for those combinations where the 75cc chamber is a better fit for the application(but don’t want to give up that mid-lift flow). Ok, so I take it that for my application, you are recommending the 84cc E-street head and they will flow better than any of the other in the same price range im looking at? ( I was thinking the 84cc heads were open chambered which I know was recommended against before when I asked about the RPM heads) SO I figured the 75 cc would be better for getting the compression up even higher and getting the quench better.. Sorry for all the questions, I am learning while trying to make this thing fast.
Last edited by mopower440; 06/21/19 05:15 PM.
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2668444
06/21/19 05:17 PM
06/21/19 05:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904
Pattison Texas
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Correction my Stupid Stealths [Super Stealths] flow real bad .200 to .500 compared to the TF240's
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: CSK]
#2668448
06/21/19 05:27 PM
06/21/19 05:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,531 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,531
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Just re-read my original recommendation.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: CSK]
#2668450
06/21/19 05:31 PM
06/21/19 05:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,531 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,531
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Correction my Stupid Stealths [Super Stealths] flow real bad .200 to .500 compared to the TF240's Hard to say for sure without numbers for both from the same bench.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2668453
06/21/19 05:34 PM
06/21/19 05:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904
Pattison Texas
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Correction my Stupid Stealths [Super Stealths] flow real bad .200 to .500 compared to the TF240's Hard to say for sure without numbers for both from the same bench. Thats true!! also my Flow bench is just a toy bench, just like Bradh says, Super Flow 110
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: CSK]
#2668459
06/21/19 05:46 PM
06/21/19 05:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,531 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,531
So. Burlington, Vt.
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I had a SF-110 for 14 years.......I did countless flow tests with it.
Hard to believe...... I’ve had the “new” bench almost 12 years now.
Just happen to have a pic of a Stealth head ready to be tested:
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2668465
06/21/19 05:56 PM
06/21/19 05:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904
Pattison Texas
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I see you use the Repeatable air entry plate , my old stuff
Last edited by csk; 06/21/19 05:58 PM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: BB head flow?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2668471
06/21/19 06:11 PM
06/21/19 06:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,272 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,272
PA.
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Are you still using nanometers or did you convert it over to electronics. I sold my manometer bench because I didn’t want to do the weather conversion every time I did a flow test. They are to easily affected by the weather.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.38@138.67
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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