Front suspension! School me...
#2666858
06/17/19 11:59 AM
06/17/19 11:59 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 89 sweden
carter
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 89
sweden
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I was on a NoPrep event and now I need more traction..... Now I have CE 90/10 shocks and remove the "stop" to upper control Arm so I have 5" front travel. I have stock rubber bushing in upper and lower control arms now. How do you gays set upp your stock front susp and what do you have for bushings? Reading much about "loose" front susp, what is that exactly? Is there any gain to put in torsions bar from SB car? Rest of the car is: E-body 3860 lbs 512cu 4400 flash stall rear is 3.91 with QTP 11,5x28 Caltracs with mono leafs and their 9-way chock Best 60ft was 1.71 ........... 7.23 and 97,4 I need all help I can get here Thanks
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Re: Front suspension! School me...
[Re: carter]
#2666882
06/17/19 12:57 PM
06/17/19 12:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,129 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,129
Bend,OR USA
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Tell us what it is doing off the line, spinning, biting and then spinning or what?
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Front suspension! School me...
[Re: carter]
#2666887
06/17/19 01:03 PM
06/17/19 01:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I can tell you what I've done to get my E body to hook. I have never tried a no prep event and do not plan to...ever. Keep in mind that I run a radial tire. For no prep, you're gonna want a bias ply tire.
Out back is nothing special...just the Calvert mono springs and their bars. No preload, just touching on both sides w/ driver sitting in the car. I ran the Rancho/Calvert 9 way shocks (set stiff on 9) for a long time on the rear and they worked great running mid 9s at 140 mph naturally aspirated (6.0s at 113 mph 1/8 mile). Regular 1.32-1.34 sixty foots. My car is over 3800 lbs. also.
Up front is still all the factory suspension with factory original 340 sb torsion bars. All bushings are polyurethane. Removed UCA bump stops for max travel and removed the sway bar. The UCA bushings I modified to "free" them up. By reaming the bushing slightly so the steel sleeve in them isn't too tight and using a little moly grease. A test to see if they're loose enough is remove the tire, the shock, and back the torsion bar all the way off. Lift up on the spindle and then let go...the spindle should drop freely until it hits bottom. If it doesn't, it's binding. The UCA bushings were too tight and causing mine to be real stiff. You could just use some aftermarket UCAs w/ hemi joints. If you have big block torsion bars, I think they'll be too stiff for you. At your weight, I'd go w/ sb bars.
Front shocks made the most difference on my car...no matter how fast it's been. Comp Engineering 3 way adjustable fronts always seemed too stiff...even set on 90/10. Lakewood 90/10s worked great and that's what I used for many years running anywhere from the high 11s down to mid 9s naturally aspirated. I tried the Calvert 90/10 front shocks, but the car would NOT hook w/ them. They were too loose and caused the car to unload when they bottomed out. On a slower car they may work fine, but they were junk on mine (when running mid 9s).
When I started w/ the nitrous, the car was hit or miss. If it hooked, it went straight up, but it usually just blew the tires off. A set of Viking DA shocks at all 4 corners helped a lot, but ultimately I had to take gear out of it. Went from 4.10s to 3.54. Still too much SLR, but it's working good so far.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Front suspension! School me...
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2666898
06/17/19 01:31 PM
06/17/19 01:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021
Tulsa OK
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My recipe for smooth and free front suspension is this. I have RMS upper control arms with heim joints, and RMS strut rods with heim joints. So the only bushing in the front suspension is the lower control arm and that one is poly on my car. With the shock, and torsion bar removed the suspension is easy cycled by hand through the full range.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Front suspension! School me...
[Re: Bad340fish]
#2666907
06/17/19 01:47 PM
06/17/19 01:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,540 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,540
Fulton County, PA
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My recipe for smooth and free front suspension is this. I have RMS upper control arms with heim joints, and RMS strut rods with heim joints. So the only bushing in the front suspension is the lower control arm and that one is poly on my car. With the shock, and torsion bar removed the suspension is easy cycled by hand through the full range. This. I've never done it either (although some of the places I've been would have qualified). In general, no resistance in the suspension. That and skinny torsion bars and loose shocks will provide max pitch rotation. That and getting weight on the rear of the car. Keep in mind, when you go to a prepped track, this may not be the best options. Controlling the power and managing the tire may be a better way to go.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Front suspension! School me...
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2666912
06/17/19 01:56 PM
06/17/19 01:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021
Tulsa OK
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My recipe for smooth and free front suspension is this. I have RMS upper control arms with heim joints, and RMS strut rods with heim joints. So the only bushing in the front suspension is the lower control arm and that one is poly on my car. With the shock, and torsion bar removed the suspension is easy cycled by hand through the full range. This. I've never done it either (although some of the places I've been would have qualified). In general, no resistance in the suspension. That and skinny torsion bars and loose shocks will provide max pitch rotation. That and getting weight on the rear of the car. Keep in mind, when you go to a prepped track, this may not be the best options. Controlling the power and managing the tire may be a better way to go. I am at the point of needing adjustable shocks now. On occasion it will spin a little bit right when the front end tops out, when it does that it slows the 60 down a few hundreths. I think slowing the front end down a little will help prevent that. This is a 3550lb A body Barracuda that has been a best 60ft of 1.41.
Last edited by Bad340fish; 06/17/19 01:56 PM.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Front suspension! School me...
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2667356
06/18/19 08:23 PM
06/18/19 08:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 76 MASSACHUSETTS
Chip
member
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member
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 76
MASSACHUSETTS
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I can tell you what I've done to get my E body to hook. I have never tried a no prep event and do not plan to...ever. Keep in mind that I run a radial tire. For no prep, you're gonna want a bias ply tire.
Out back is nothing special...just the Calvert mono springs and their bars. No preload, just touching on both sides w/ driver sitting in the car. I ran the Rancho/Calvert 9 way shocks (set stiff on 9) for a long time on the rear and they worked great running mid 9s at 140 mph naturally aspirated (6.0s at 113 mph 1/8 mile). Regular 1.32-1.34 sixty foots. My car is over 3800 lbs. also.
Up front is still all the factory suspension with factory original 340 sb torsion bars. All bushings are polyurethane. Removed UCA bump stops for max travel and removed the sway bar. The UCA bushings I modified to "free" them up. By reaming the bushing slightly so the steel sleeve in them isn't too tight and using a little moly grease. A test to see if they're loose enough is remove the tire, the shock, and back the torsion bar all the way off. Lift up on the spindle and then let go...the spindle should drop freely until it hits bottom. If it doesn't, it's binding. The UCA bushings were too tight and causing mine to be real stiff. You could just use some aftermarket UCAs w/ hemi joints. If you have big block torsion bars, I think they'll be too stiff for you. At your weight, I'd go w/ sb bars.
Front shocks made the most difference on my car...no matter how fast it's been. Comp Engineering 3 way adjustable fronts always seemed too stiff...even set on 90/10. Lakewood 90/10s worked great and that's what I used for many years running anywhere from the high 11s down to mid 9s naturally aspirated. I tried the Calvert 90/10 front shocks, but the car would NOT hook w/ them. They were too loose and caused the car to unload when they bottomed out. On a slower car they may work fine, but they were junk on mine (when running mid 9s).
When I started w/ the nitrous, the car was hit or miss. If it hooked, it went straight up, but it usually just blew the tires off. A set of Viking DA shocks at all 4 corners helped a lot, but ultimately I had to take gear out of it. Went from 4.10s to 3.54. Still too much SLR, but it's working good so far. Great information...as I am trying to set my Barracuda up too
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Re: Front suspension! School me...
[Re: dvw]
#2671403
06/29/19 06:18 AM
06/29/19 06:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915 A shed in England
Tig
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
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Pretty much done what everybody else has done, the exception may be .890" torsion bars here. After 2 big wheelstands did some damage we've just replaced the front Menscer Afco's with Santhuffs. Man what a difference, a lot more controllable now, the Menscers were good but get it into a wheelstand and it came down hard despite the stiff compression setting. We just ran a 9.59 with a 1.35 60ft last time out which is good for our 572 E body (3950lb w/d) with just the recommended starting settings for the shocks. We know we can go quicker as the crank trigger has gone away not letting the car rev past 6500. Data was showing us shifting at 6200 and just holding / breaking up at around 6500 for the last 300ft or so, it was audible also inside and outside the car. Looking forward to getting back out in a couple of weeks to see what it can do
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials. 9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge. RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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