Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Front suspension! School me... #2666858
06/17/19 11:59 AM
06/17/19 11:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 89
sweden
C
carter Offline OP
member
carter  Offline OP
member
C

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 89
sweden
I was on a NoPrep event and now I need more traction..... grin

Now I have CE 90/10 shocks and remove the "stop" to upper control Arm so I have 5" front travel. I have stock rubber bushing in upper and lower control arms now.
How do you gays set upp your stock front susp and what do you have for bushings? Reading much about "loose" front susp, what is that exactly?
Is there any gain to put in torsions bar from SB car?

Rest of the car is: E-body 3860 lbs
512cu
4400 flash stall
rear is 3.91 with QTP 11,5x28
Caltracs with mono leafs and their 9-way chock
Best 60ft was 1.71 ........... 7.23 and 97,4

I need all help I can get here wrench
Thanks

Re: Front suspension! School me... [Re: carter] #2666882
06/17/19 12:57 PM
06/17/19 12:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
Tell us what it is doing off the line, spinning, biting and then spinning or what?


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Front suspension! School me... [Re: carter] #2666887
06/17/19 01:03 PM
06/17/19 01:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
I can tell you what I've done to get my E body to hook. I have never tried a no prep event and do not plan to...ever.
Keep in mind that I run a radial tire. For no prep, you're gonna want a bias ply tire.

Out back is nothing special...just the Calvert mono springs and their bars. No preload, just touching on both sides w/ driver sitting in the car.
I ran the Rancho/Calvert 9 way shocks (set stiff on 9) for a long time on the rear and they worked great running mid 9s at 140 mph naturally aspirated (6.0s at 113 mph 1/8 mile). Regular 1.32-1.34 sixty foots. My car is over 3800 lbs. also.

Up front is still all the factory suspension with factory original 340 sb torsion bars. All bushings are polyurethane. Removed UCA bump stops for max travel and removed the sway bar.
The UCA bushings I modified to "free" them up. By reaming the bushing slightly so the steel sleeve in them isn't too tight and using a little moly grease. A test to see if they're loose enough is remove the tire, the shock, and back the torsion bar all the way off. Lift up on the spindle and then let go...the spindle should drop freely until it hits bottom. If it doesn't, it's binding. The UCA bushings were too tight and causing mine to be real stiff.
You could just use some aftermarket UCAs w/ hemi joints.
If you have big block torsion bars, I think they'll be too stiff for you. At your weight, I'd go w/ sb bars.

Front shocks made the most difference on my car...no matter how fast it's been. Comp Engineering 3 way adjustable fronts always seemed too stiff...even set on 90/10. Lakewood 90/10s worked great and that's what I used for many years running anywhere from the high 11s down to mid 9s naturally aspirated. I tried the Calvert 90/10 front shocks, but the car would NOT hook w/ them. They were too loose and caused the car to unload when they bottomed out. On a slower car they may work fine, but they were junk on mine (when running mid 9s).

When I started w/ the nitrous, the car was hit or miss. If it hooked, it went straight up, but it usually just blew the tires off. A set of Viking DA shocks at all 4 corners helped a lot, but ultimately I had to take gear out of it. Went from 4.10s to 3.54. Still too much SLR, but it's working good so far.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Front suspension! School me... [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2666898
06/17/19 01:31 PM
06/17/19 01:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,005
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
master
Bad340fish  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,005
Tulsa OK
My recipe for smooth and free front suspension is this. I have RMS upper control arms with heim joints, and RMS strut rods with heim joints. So the only bushing in the front suspension is the lower control arm and that one is poly on my car. With the shock, and torsion bar removed the suspension is easy cycled by hand through the full range.


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
87 "Chrysler" Conquest
Re: Front suspension! School me... [Re: Bad340fish] #2666907
06/17/19 01:47 PM
06/17/19 01:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408
Fulton County, PA
C
CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
Mr. Helpful
C

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408
Fulton County, PA
Originally Posted by Bad340fish
My recipe for smooth and free front suspension is this. I have RMS upper control arms with heim joints, and RMS strut rods with heim joints. So the only bushing in the front suspension is the lower control arm and that one is poly on my car. With the shock, and torsion bar removed the suspension is easy cycled by hand through the full range.


This. I've never done it either (although some of the places I've been would have qualified). In general, no resistance in the suspension. That and skinny torsion bars and loose shocks will provide max pitch rotation. That and getting weight on the rear of the car. Keep in mind, when you go to a prepped track, this may not be the best options.

Controlling the power and managing the tire may be a better way to go.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Front suspension! School me... [Re: CMcAllister] #2666912
06/17/19 01:56 PM
06/17/19 01:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,005
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
master
Bad340fish  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,005
Tulsa OK
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Originally Posted by Bad340fish
My recipe for smooth and free front suspension is this. I have RMS upper control arms with heim joints, and RMS strut rods with heim joints. So the only bushing in the front suspension is the lower control arm and that one is poly on my car. With the shock, and torsion bar removed the suspension is easy cycled by hand through the full range.


This. I've never done it either (although some of the places I've been would have qualified). In general, no resistance in the suspension. That and skinny torsion bars and loose shocks will provide max pitch rotation. That and getting weight on the rear of the car. Keep in mind, when you go to a prepped track, this may not be the best options.

Controlling the power and managing the tire may be a better way to go.


I am at the point of needing adjustable shocks now. On occasion it will spin a little bit right when the front end tops out, when it does that it slows the 60 down a few hundreths. I think slowing the front end down a little will help prevent that. This is a 3550lb A body Barracuda that has been a best 60ft of 1.41.

Last edited by Bad340fish; 06/17/19 01:56 PM.

68 Barracuda Formula S 340
87 "Chrysler" Conquest
Re: Front suspension! School me... [Re: Bad340fish] #2666996
06/17/19 08:11 PM
06/17/19 08:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,892
Florida
Locomotion Offline
master
Locomotion  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,892
Florida
Easiest and fastest adjustibility will come from double-adjustable front shocks. Control the rate of separation as well as compression. Fastest rise isn't always the best. I've had good luck with Viking. I never actually checked it, but was told a long time ago that removing the suspension travel stops can put bind and unnecessary stress on the front suspension because the stops prevent it from moving past its design parameters. Metal-to-metal isn't good either way. Should be some benefit to rear suspension tuning. But I never tried Cal-Tracs. Sometimes adding weight will help overall ET's and can contribute to consistency. Finding and talking to some of the "Stock Appearing" racers who must run OEM style tires may provide some ideas.

Small block torsion bars would be better than big block. 6 cyl bars might be too soft. Just to make sure.....frames tied and caged & no sway bars up front?

Shedding some weight from up front will help too. Is it legal to put the battery in the trunk?

Re: Front suspension! School me... [Re: carter] #2667121
06/18/19 09:50 AM
06/18/19 09:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 89
sweden
C
carter Offline OP
member
carter  Offline OP
member
C

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 89
sweden
I have a set of upper & lower control arms on the self so I gone try Polyuretane bushings and reaming them so them is "loose" and not have any bindings and install a set of SB T-bars..... To start with....

Thanks up

Re: Front suspension! School me... [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2667356
06/18/19 08:23 PM
06/18/19 08:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 76
MASSACHUSETTS
Chip Offline
member
Chip  Offline
member

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 76
MASSACHUSETTS
Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
I can tell you what I've done to get my E body to hook. I have never tried a no prep event and do not plan to...ever.
Keep in mind that I run a radial tire. For no prep, you're gonna want a bias ply tire.

Out back is nothing special...just the Calvert mono springs and their bars. No preload, just touching on both sides w/ driver sitting in the car.
I ran the Rancho/Calvert 9 way shocks (set stiff on 9) for a long time on the rear and they worked great running mid 9s at 140 mph naturally aspirated (6.0s at 113 mph 1/8 mile). Regular 1.32-1.34 sixty foots. My car is over 3800 lbs. also.

Up front is still all the factory suspension with factory original 340 sb torsion bars. All bushings are polyurethane. Removed UCA bump stops for max travel and removed the sway bar.
The UCA bushings I modified to "free" them up. By reaming the bushing slightly so the steel sleeve in them isn't too tight and using a little moly grease. A test to see if they're loose enough is remove the tire, the shock, and back the torsion bar all the way off. Lift up on the spindle and then let go...the spindle should drop freely until it hits bottom. If it doesn't, it's binding. The UCA bushings were too tight and causing mine to be real stiff.
You could just use some aftermarket UCAs w/ hemi joints.
If you have big block torsion bars, I think they'll be too stiff for you. At your weight, I'd go w/ sb bars.

Front shocks made the most difference on my car...no matter how fast it's been. Comp Engineering 3 way adjustable fronts always seemed too stiff...even set on 90/10. Lakewood 90/10s worked great and that's what I used for many years running anywhere from the high 11s down to mid 9s naturally aspirated. I tried the Calvert 90/10 front shocks, but the car would NOT hook w/ them. They were too loose and caused the car to unload when they bottomed out. On a slower car they may work fine, but they were junk on mine (when running mid 9s).

When I started w/ the nitrous, the car was hit or miss. If it hooked, it went straight up, but it usually just blew the tires off. A set of Viking DA shocks at all 4 corners helped a lot, but ultimately I had to take gear out of it. Went from 4.10s to 3.54. Still too much SLR, but it's working good so far.


Great information...as I am trying to set my Barracuda up too

Re: Front suspension! School me... [Re: Chip] #2670952
06/27/19 11:48 PM
06/27/19 11:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,390
CA.
RAY1969CARS Offline
pro stock
RAY1969CARS  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,390
CA.
What about Ride hight what are you guy setting your rack at ???

Re: Front suspension! School me... [Re: RAY1969CARS] #2671011
06/28/19 09:01 AM
06/28/19 09:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
dvw Online content
master
dvw  Online Content
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
My opinion. Get the lightest torsion bar and all the travel you can get. 6 cylinder or the aftermarket thin drag race only bars. Light torsion bars (springs) store energy to help pitch rotation. You need pitch, and you need a good deal of it (travel). Removing the stops gains very little. Three ways to gain travel. One would be to run the front end as low as possible. However this requires you to take load off from the torsion bar. That's why you need a very thin bar. Ideally you would have the bolt adjusted full tight with the lower control arm sitting on the snubber. The second is to increase the spindle height (FMJ body spindle) . The third is to run an extened upper all joint . Once light spring rate and travel are set its it's time for shocks. Good double adjustable. Even no prep too loose on rebound is going to unoad the rear. With that being said all the free movement in the front suspension may not be worth much. Why? Because you are going to slow the travel with the shock rebound anyway.
My 2 cents.
Doug

Re: Front suspension! School me... [Re: dvw] #2671403
06/29/19 06:18 AM
06/29/19 06:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,902
A shed in England
Tig Offline
master
Tig  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,902
A shed in England
Pretty much done what everybody else has done, the exception may be .890" torsion bars here. After 2 big wheelstands did some damage we've just replaced the front Menscer Afco's with Santhuffs. Man what a difference, a lot more controllable now, the Menscers were good but get it into a wheelstand and it came down hard despite the stiff compression setting. We just ran a 9.59 with a 1.35 60ft last time out which is good for our 572 E body (3950lb w/d) with just the recommended starting settings for the shocks. We know we can go quicker as the crank trigger has gone away not letting the car rev past 6500. Data was showing us shifting at 6200 and just holding / breaking up at around 6500 for the last 300ft or so, it was audible also inside and outside the car. Looking forward to getting back out in a couple of weeks to see what it can do up


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Front suspension! School me... [Re: Tig] #2671700
06/29/19 08:33 PM
06/29/19 08:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 653
Fredericksburg Va
P
plycuda Offline
mopar
plycuda  Offline
mopar
P

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 653
Fredericksburg Va
Originally Posted by Tig
Pretty much done what everybody else has done, the exception may be .890" torsion bars here. After 2 big wheelstands did some damage we've just replaced the front Menscer Afco's with Santhuffs. Man what a difference, a lot more controllable now, the Menscers were good but get it into a wheelstand and it came down hard despite the stiff compression setting. We just ran a 9.59 with a 1.35 60ft last time out which is good for our 572 E body (3950lb w/d) with just the recommended starting settings for the shocks. We know we can go quicker as the crank trigger has gone away not letting the car rev past 6500. Data was showing us shifting at 6200 and just holding / breaking up at around 6500 for the last 300ft or so, it was audible also inside and outside the car. Looking forward to getting back out in a couple of weeks to see what it can do up


I'm with you I listened to all these people and the problem is they never really ran no prep. We have a place where we run on the straight away of a road race course. so there's no prep at all. I had regular springs that I clamped and went to caltracs and monos. It woulded hook at all setting it up like every one else, talked to a guy at caltrac and he runs a no prep race with a barracuda and he told me to keep putting in more preload on the caltracs. I have around a turn on both sides. made a big difference. The biggest problem is getting enough bite just to get it to pitch rotate. I have a satellite with caltracs shocks on the front and single adjustable qa1 in the back with small block torsion bars. I have qtp bias tires. I try coming out around 2500 part throttle and soon as I feel it starting to jump up I push it the down. Now I need to see how early I can hit it with the first kit. Good luck







Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1