|
Re: high level restorations
[Re: Mastershake340]
#266518
03/26/09 02:07 AM
03/26/09 02:07 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
|
David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
|
Quote:
I would expect it to have been some sort of nylon.
I was told by the plant engineer at Rustique Enterprises that the GM washer bottle was a celluloid plastic material. If they are in fact a nylon based plastic; (Vydyne nylon 66 and 66/6 - PA66 and PA66/6 - engineering thermoplastic and extrusion-grade resin) they are translucent in color with 85-90% see thru clarity. Either way, they were not a yellowish color!
Google/copy the following information and click on the subject:
Polyamide, Nylon 6/ 66, Product Overview, Vydyne, polyamide product…
It shows a perfect picture of the "white" colored (not yellowed) pellets before they are molded. Plastics were not made to look old when they were newly formed. I imagine the next thing we will be debating is the degree of “brittleness” these should incorporate when they are reproduced. Isn't that the condition most of the original ones seem to be in....somewhat hard and brittle? Lets not just stop with one noticeable aged attribute. 
|
|
|
Re: high level restorations
[Re: ECS]
#266519
03/26/09 02:43 AM
03/26/09 02:43 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
|
Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
|
Most underhood plastic (base) resins are common low cost thermoplastics such as Nylon, HDPE, LDPE, and Styrene based materials such as ABS, all have different characteristics (or better stated, "blends" of characteristics) engineered into them for the applications they were chosen for. The problem is that none of todays modern plastics are exactly like plastics (even identified by the same names) used 30 years ago, there are many new additives in todays blends of even the most basic polymers to add various features such as UV inhibtors that did not exist back then. Due to these changes over the years and the better refinement of the resins used in modern times the base resin colors have changed as well.
Having worked in the plastics industry for the past 20 years I can assure you that not all Nylons,PP,PE,LDPE,HDPE,or other typically natural/white/clear materials are "pure", MOST of them have a shade of color ranging from bluish to yellowish, and it can vary from one lot to the next depending on many things in how the raw pallets were extruded.
Back to my original statement, many original plastics used on Mopars were "yellowish" when brand new. To what degree is the most "correct" well that's a bit too subjective to comment on much further.
|
|
|
Re: high level restorations
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#266520
03/26/09 11:33 AM
03/26/09 11:33 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
|
David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
|
Hi Scott, I don't know about you but I have had four calls TODAY related to this topic. I was asked to "knock off" with the chemistry jargon so I won't go into anymore scientific lingo pertaining to plastics. The plastics used by Chrysler were comprised of the cheapest materials they could purchase. They did not use a special "blend" to formulate a purposeful yellowing effect. Anyone familiar with neutral colored plastic knows that it turns yellow and brittle over time. Environmental conditions such as heat (engine compartment) will accelerate these changes. I have three NOS bottles that all exhibit varying degrees of yellowing. The photo below is an E Body example that displays various stages of discoloration throughout the SAME surface. I doubt those stages of "yellowing" were engineered into the color scheme of things. Get an NOS sample and notice the small air bubbles that are evident within the structure. Even the new "white" ones that are manufactured today have the same characteristics because they are basically the same plastic composite that was used 40 years ago. The "yellowish" aged version currently being reproduced has tan pigment added and the appearance is totally different than that of the captured air bubble look. The added color causes a denser looking type of plastic material. If you have both versions in your shop, check it out for yourself! I also posted a picture of the carb decal I am making for you Scott. Would you like it to look faded and old like the original, or new like the one shown above it? Just out of curiosity, do you restore/color your carburetors to look old and tarnished or new like they would have appeared 40 years ago?  
|
|
|
Re: high level restorations
[Re: ECS]
#266521
03/26/09 11:41 AM
03/26/09 11:41 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,143
New Mexico
UCUDANT
Troll Hunter
|
Troll Hunter
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,143
New Mexico
|
Quote:
Quote:
Do you guys REALLY want to start debating the various physical properties of plastics?
Ready when you are 
There is no debate when discussing the physical properties of celluloid plastics. It is what it is! Here is a brief synopsis on the subject. (Pay special attention to the first sentence in the last paragraph.)
CELLULOSE BASED PLASTICS:
…..Hyatt was something of an industrial genius who understood what could be done with such a shapeable, or "plastic," material, and proceeded to design much of the basic industrial machinery needed to produce good-quality plastic materials in quantity. Since cellulose was the main constituent used in the synthesis of his new material, Hyatt named it "celluloid." It was introduced in 1863.…
Celluloid's real breakthrough products were waterproof shirt collars, cuffs, and the false shirt fronts known as "dickies," whose unmanageable nature later became a stock joke in silent-movie comedies. They didn't wilt and didn't stain easily, and Hyatt sold them by trainloads. Corsets made with celluloid stays also proved popular, since perspiration didn't rust the stays, as it would if they had been made of metal.
Celluloid proved extremely versatile in its fields of application, providing a cheap and attractive replacement for ivory, tortoise-shell, and bone. Traditional products that had used these materials were much easier to fabricate with plastics. Some of the items made with cellulose in the 19th century were beautifully designed and implemented. For example, celluloid combs made to tie up the long tresses of hair fashionable at the time are now jewel-like museum pieces. Such pretty trinkets were no longer only for the rich.
Celluloid could also be used in entirely new applications. Hyatt figured out how to fabricate the material in a strip format for movie film. By the year 1900, movie film was a major market for celluloid.
However, celluloid still tended to yellow and crack over time, and it had another, more dangerous defect: it burned easily and spectacularly, unsurprising given that mixtures of nitric acid and cellulose are also used to synthesize smokeless powder….
When you take excerpts from somewhere include the link to your source http://www.packagingtoday.com/introcelluloid.htm
|
|
|
Re: high level restorations
[Re: bremotorsports]
#266524
03/26/09 12:22 PM
03/26/09 12:22 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
|
Management Trainee
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
|
Quote:
I would like to announce that tickets for the upcoming WPA (World Plastic Authority) World Championship Steel Cage Death Match Smackdown between Dave Walden and Scott Smith will go on sale Monday, March 30, 2009.
I will handle ticket sales, but anyone interested in being a ring girl, please contact me in advance!
Bill Rolik
LMAO 
|
|
|
Re: high level restorations
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#266525
03/26/09 12:43 PM
03/26/09 12:43 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,592
None
71rm23
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,592
None
|
Quote:
Quote:
I would like to announce that tickets for the upcoming WPA (World Plastic Authority) World Championship Steel Cage Death Match Smackdown between Dave Walden and Scott Smith will go on sale Monday, March 30, 2009.
I will handle ticket sales, but anyone interested in being a ring girl, please contact me in advance!
Bill Rolik
LMAO
X2
|
|
|
Re: high level restorations
[Re: 71rm23]
#266526
03/26/09 01:05 PM
03/26/09 01:05 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 453
SC
Cooda
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 453
SC
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I would like to announce that tickets for the upcoming WPA (World Plastic Authority) World Championship Steel Cage Death Match Smackdown between Dave Walden and Scott Smith will go on sale Monday, March 30, 2009.
I will handle ticket sales, but anyone interested in being a ring girl, please contact me in advance!
Bill Rolik
LMAO
X2
Dave "The Great White Hope" Walden
-VS-
Scott "Yellow Fever" Smith
|
|
|
Re: high level restorations
[Re: ECS]
#266530
03/26/09 03:04 PM
03/26/09 03:04 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
Brother Scott, I am calling you as I type this....
Not only is Dave talented, but he can multi-task too. Maybe we should start calling you Super Dave. Oh wait.... someone tried that already. 
|
|
|
Re: high level restorations
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#266532
03/26/09 03:30 PM
03/26/09 03:30 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
|
David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
|
Quote:
Oh crud, just got off the phone with Dave, big blow out yelling match ensued, guess we have to have the cage fight afterall
 
Scott you big instigator! We are STILL talking as I am typing this.
Yes Scott, you are right and I am wrong!! 
|
|
|
Re: high level restorations
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#266534
03/26/09 03:37 PM
03/26/09 03:37 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
|
David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
|
|
|
|
Re: high level restorations
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#266535
03/26/09 05:16 PM
03/26/09 05:16 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,101
Ont, Canada
moparo
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,101
Ont, Canada
|
do not use that language here kids are reading.lol this is how you should spell it. you are a 
performancecarrestorations.com
|
|
|
Re: high level restorations
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#266537
03/26/09 06:29 PM
03/26/09 06:29 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Dave, no more Pm's are you going to reproduce the 440-6 carb labels for A12 cars? since you make are of the underhood decals i think this should be your next venture the 2 outboard carb and center carb decals for 4 speeds and automatics.
|
|
|
|
|
