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Another “what cam” thread... #2650055 04/28/19 11:55 PM 04/28/19 11:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,745 Maryland 340_Dart OP top fuel
340_Dart OP top fuel Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,745 Maryland	Hello all, I’m in the process of rebuilding a 426 max wedge clone motor for my uncle. Looking for a cam recommendation. It is a ‘65 426 block, stock .010 crank and rods, TRW 11:1 pistons, 452 heads with a valve job and light port cleanup. Crane gold rockers. Obviously it has a A&A repo crossram and max wedge exhaust manifolds. Being a small block and aftermarket head guy, I’m used to larger lift cams... what would be a good cam for this 426? It’s a street cruiser, so he’s mainly after that ‘60s race sound and drivablity more than actual performance. It’s going in a ‘62 Dart with a 3000 converter and 3.55 or 3.91 gears. Thanks

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: 340_Dart] #2650079 04/29/19 03:10 AM 04/29/19 03:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,157 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,157 Bend,OR USA	Is this a pump gas street motor? If so you will probably have detonation problems on todays pump swill with that much compression As far as the cam I would look for a solid lifter flat tappet grind with as much lift you can get with between 245 to 260 degrees duration at .050 with the symmetrical lobes and maybe a little more duration(5 to 10 degrees) on the exhaust lobes and have it ground on 105 to 108 lobe separation angles and install it with between 3 to 6 degrees advance on the intake lobes As far as that clone M.W. intake for stock type 440 heads I don't know anyone who has used them and like them I'm a little bias on M.W. cars and motors due to owning and racing several of them, lucky me If I was advising your uncle I would tell him to run a six pack intake and carbs with 9.5 to 1 compression just to make some of the purist mad Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: Cab_Burge] #2650089 04/29/19 06:45 AM 04/29/19 06:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina sgcuda master
sgcuda master Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina	If you are looking for the sound and performance from a retro cam, the .590 purple shaft was always my favorite. Will work well with your combo.

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: Cab_Burge] #2650138 04/29/19 10:02 AM 04/29/19 10:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,745 Maryland 340_Dart OP top fuel
340_Dart OP top fuel Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,745 Maryland	Originally Posted by Cab_Burge Is this a pump gas street motor? If so you will probably have detonation problems on todays pump swill with that much compression : Yeah Cab, I'm thinking it may have problems on pump gas.... But that's the cards I've been dealt with this build. Backstory of this motor, the longblock was apparently built in the 80s (guessing from the bearing date codes) and never used, My uncle bought it 10-12 years ago and got it running in his Dart with a single 4bbl and it sat... Last year at Carlisle he bought the cross ram setup and manifolds. Went to put the cross ram on last fall and noticed a loose rocker, further investigation showed the cam had a flat lobe...So he asked me to go through it. I cleaned and checked it out, new cam bearings, crank polished, and new rod and mains are on order. I know the pistons are TRW replacement 11:1 pistons. I'm hoping once I get checking piston height and head CCs that i'll end up with less than 11:1 compression. It previously had a Crane ZIP 510 solid FT cam in it. .ZIP-510 for the B/RB .340" intake lobe lift, .3455" exhaust lobe lift, Valve lash is .028" intake, .032" exhaust at operating temperature. The duration at .050" tappet lift is 254 degrees intake, 264 degrees exhaust. Lobe separation is 112 degrees.

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: 340_Dart] #2650155 04/29/19 10:36 AM 04/29/19 10:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 145 NJ C cb1289 member
cb1289 member C Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 145 NJ	Crane Zip 510. There's your cam right there! A great cam for that combo. Sorry, I reread and saw the flat cam lobe after I replied. Last edited by cb1289; 04/29/19 10:40 AM. 62 Dodge Dart Wagon 65 Plymouth Satellite

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: 340_Dart] #2650177 04/29/19 11:37 AM 04/29/19 11:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington M madscientist master
madscientist master M Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington	Originally Posted by 340_Dart Originally Posted by Cab_Burge Is this a pump gas street motor? If so you will probably have detonation problems on todays pump swill with that much compression : Yeah Cab, I'm thinking it may have problems on pump gas.... But that's the cards I've been dealt with this build. Backstory of this motor, the longblock was apparently built in the 80s (guessing from the bearing date codes) and never used, My uncle bought it 10-12 years ago and got it running in his Dart with a single 4bbl and it sat... Last year at Carlisle he bought the cross ram setup and manifolds. Went to put the cross ram on last fall and noticed a loose rocker, further investigation showed the cam had a flat lobe...So he asked me to go through it. I cleaned and checked it out, new cam bearings, crank polished, and new rod and mains are on order. I know the pistons are TRW replacement 11:1 pistons. I'm hoping once I get checking piston height and head CCs that i'll end up with less than 11:1 compression. It previously had a Crane ZIP 510 solid FT cam in it. .ZIP-510 for the B/RB .340" intake lobe lift, .3455" exhaust lobe lift, Valve lash is .028" intake, .032" exhaust at operating temperature. The duration at .050" tappet lift is 254 degrees intake, 264 degrees exhaust. Lobe separation is 112 degrees. I'd call Jim at Racer Brown and spend some time on the phone with him. I run 11:1 on pump gas with iron heads and I'm not having issues. He has some lobes just for stuff like this. It's worth your time to spend some time on the phone with him so you aren't guessing and doing it twice. Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: 340_Dart] #2650183 04/29/19 12:08 PM 04/29/19 12:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH Taking time off to work on my car
BradH Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	MP .528, or something along those lines, based on the description above. I also agree that 11.0 CR with open chamber iron heads will be a problem on pump gas, if the CR is really that high.

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: Cab_Burge] #2650326 04/29/19 07:39 PM 04/29/19 07:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,996 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw... gregsdart master
gregsdart master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,996 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...	Andyf liked a certain flat tappet mopar cam, he should chime in and spill the beans. Seems any car with stock manifolds could only use so much duration and overlap. You could send him a pm for his input. 8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: gregsdart] #2650393 04/29/19 10:43 PM 04/29/19 10:43 PM
Joined: May 2017 Posts: 1,268 Denver, CO B BigBlockGTS pro stock
BigBlockGTS pro stock B Joined: May 2017 Posts: 1,268 Denver, CO	I am nearly certain AndyF tested the MP 528 suggested above and for whatever reason it made more power than anything with exhaust manifolds.

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: 340_Dart] #2650409 04/29/19 11:55 PM 04/29/19 11:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,261 Phoenix, AZ B Belvedere1 pro stock
Belvedere1 pro stock B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,261 Phoenix, AZ	What about a factory 64 Max Wedge stage III cam??

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: Belvedere1] #2650524 04/30/19 12:44 PM 04/30/19 12:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,157 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,157 Bend,OR USA	Which one, 415 or 425 HP? The 1963 cam is the same for both motors, not sure about the specs. on the 1962 413 M.W. All of them where drag race cams, not mild at all at that time There are a lot better choices on cams today for most any type build Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: Cab_Burge] #2650687 04/30/19 09:57 PM 04/30/19 09:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,261 Phoenix, AZ B Belvedere1 pro stock
Belvedere1 pro stock B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,261 Phoenix, AZ	I think the stage III was for 64 425 hp and was the hottest cam of the max wedge years. Not sure of the specs but around .520 and 250 something?

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: Belvedere1] #2650725 04/30/19 11:31 PM 04/30/19 11:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,157 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,157 Bend,OR USA	Originally Posted by Belvedere1 I think the stage III was for 64 425 HP and was the hottest cam of the max wedge years. Not sure of the specs but around .520 and 250 something? The 413 and most of the 1963 M.W. motors where stage 1 motors, mid year in 1963 Mopar came out with the Stage 2 425 HP motor that had the same carbs and camshaft as the 425 HP 1964 M.W. came with. All the 1964 M.W. motors where considered and called Stage 3 is what I remember from back then I think all the 1963 cams where considered 300 degree total duration with right at .509 lift, the 1964 415 HP motors had a little more duration, either 312 or 316 degrees advertised with around .510 lift at the valves and the 1964 425 HP motors had the biggest wedge made for production cars with 320 degrees advertised duration and right at .520 valve lift All the Mopar ductile iron rocker arms I've check where no where near perfect, most didn't meet the 1.5 ratio, always less Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: BradH] #2650737 05/01/19 12:18 AM 05/01/19 12:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,023 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,023 Oregon	Originally Posted by BradH MP .528, or something along those lines, based on the description above. I also agree that 11.0 CR with open chamber iron heads will be a problem on pump gas, if the CR is really that high. Yep, that is what I'd put in there. The MP .528 will pull hard and the car will seem really fast even if it isn't. It will be fun to drive on the street and sound good. If you put a real race cam in there then it might sound mean but it won't be any fun to drive.

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: AndyF] #2650796 05/01/19 10:00 AM 05/01/19 10:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,496 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,496 So. Burlington, Vt.	If I had a 528 cam sitting on the shelf, I’d probably use it in something like that. But at the nearly $400 they go for now........ there’s a lot of options. 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: fast68plymouth] #2651035 05/01/19 08:22 PM 05/01/19 08:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 889 Oh P parksr5 super stock
parksr5 super stock P Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 889 Oh	Originally Posted by fast68plymouth If I had a 528 cam sitting on the shelf, I’d probably use it in something like that. But at the nearly $400 they go for now........ there’s a lot of options. Dwayne, theoretically, couldn't you just essentially order a "custom" grind through your cam supplier with the 528 specs for cheaper than what the MP cam cost?

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: fast68plymouth] #2651046 05/01/19 08:56 PM 05/01/19 08:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,313 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,313 Prospect, PA	Originally Posted by fast68plymouth If I had a 528 cam sitting on the shelf, I’d probably use it in something like that. But at the nearly $400 they go for now........ there’s a lot of options that are better Fixed

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: BSB67] #2651066 05/01/19 09:56 PM 05/01/19 09:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,395 The Pale Blue Dot Skeptic master
Skeptic master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,395 The Pale Blue Dot	Originally Posted by BSB67 Originally Posted by fast68plymouth If I had a 528 cam sitting on the shelf, I’d probably use it in something like that. But at the nearly $400 they go for now........ there’s a lot of options that are better Fixed Not much, according to a lot of testing. http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/550hp.html http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/Lobe.html

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: Skeptic] #2651117 05/02/19 06:52 AM 05/02/19 06:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,313 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,313 Prospect, PA	Originally Posted by Skeptic Originally Posted by BSB67 Originally Posted by fast68plymouth If I had a 528 cam sitting on the shelf, I’d probably use it in something like that. But at the nearly $400 they go for now........ there’s a lot of options that are better Fixed Not much, according to a lot of testing. http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/550hp.html http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/Lobe.html Yes, I read those 15 year old articles 15 years ago. Nice articles, and a thanks to Andy F. for them as well as others.

Re: Another “what cam” thread... [Re: BSB67] #2651155 05/02/19 10:00 AM 05/02/19 10:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,395 The Pale Blue Dot Skeptic master
Skeptic master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,395 The Pale Blue Dot	The engines we are talking about were engineered 60 years ago, any improvements will be incremental, not revolutionary. In the context of the OP, i.e. street cruiser, exhaust manifolds, high street CR - not dedicated race engine. Throwing a lot of dyno time and more expensive components-i.e. roller cams, beehive springs, ect- there could be improvements here and there, but in the end it's a 1950s era engine. Last edited by Skeptic; 05/02/19 10:02 AM.

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