BB solid roller lifter
#2511352
06/21/18 03:24 PM
06/21/18 03:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 7 Australia
Dartski68
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 7
Australia
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I have factory lifter bore has anyone used solid roller lifter by crower 66233? This lifter is available on shelf in Australia so it's my first choice.
I'm also considering comp lifter 96829 or comp amc 861
Solid roller cam duration 263 on intake @ 0.50 with 650 lift, street use with lighter street spring pressure
Last edited by Dartski68; 06/21/18 04:12 PM.
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: Dartski68]
#2511391
06/21/18 04:41 PM
06/21/18 04:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169 Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
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I would not use a needle bearing roller lifter for the street. it would be just a matter of time before it fails and sends tool steel shavings throughout your motor. I only use bushed lifters....
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME) 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: Dartski68]
#2511583
06/22/18 01:16 AM
06/22/18 01:16 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,352 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,352
Bend,OR USA
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How man miles, not KM , are you wanting to operate this motor between changing or rebuilding these lifters? I put around 3000 street miles on a older set of Crower Ultra solid body needle bearing roller lifters with no issues shifting it at or above 7000 RPM at the track, lots of 1/8 and some 1/4 mile passes each year
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: Dartski68]
#2511675
06/22/18 11:38 AM
06/22/18 11:38 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,926 Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,926
Ontario, Canada
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I would not use a needle bearing roller lifter for the street. it would be just a matter of time before it fails and sends tool steel shavings throughout your motor. I only use bushed lifters.... Hmmm ... at the Indy Mopar show I asked the Crane rep about using the bushed versus needle bearing lifters on the street. I always figured it would be a better alternative too. He TOTALLY disagreed saying the bushed lifters would not hold up under low rpm use. Part of the reason being that the bushing is solid bronze, not sintered - which couldn't take the beating of a lifter. Therefore it doesn't retain lube and would just burn up. The needle bearing on the other hand would retain some lube in the space between the rollers. As to the OP's question, with a stock, unbushed lifter bore you need a lifter that has the roller wheel shrouded, otherwise it will expose the oil galley at high lift. I don't know about the lifters you're looking at but the Crane 66550 lifter meets the criteria.
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: Stanton]
#2511682
06/22/18 11:44 AM
06/22/18 11:44 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169 Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
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I would not use a needle bearing roller lifter for the street. it would be just a matter of time before it fails and sends tool steel shavings throughout your motor. I only use bushed lifters.... Hmmm ... at the Indy Mopar show I asked the Crane rep about using the bushed versus needle bearing lifters on the street. I always figured it would be a better alternative too. He TOTALLY disagreed saying the bushed lifters would not hold up under low rpm use. Part of the reason being that the bushing is solid bronze, not sintered - which couldn't take the beating of a lifter. Therefore it doesn't retain lube and would just burn up. The needle bearing on the other hand would retain some lube in the space between the rollers. As to the OP's question, with a stock, unbushed lifter bore you need a lifter that has the roller wheel shrouded, otherwise it will expose the oil galley at high lift. I don't know about the lifters you're looking at but the Crane 66550 lifter meets the criteria. I use the isky Red Zone EZ Max bushed lifters. They don't use a bronze bushing. I have ruined three of my Street Motors using needle bearing roller lifters. It's never a matter of oiling. The problem is spring pressure. With needle bearings, only two or three of the bearings carry the full load, all the other ones are just along for the ride. It's just a matter of not enough surface area to carry the load......
Last edited by Old School; 06/22/18 11:46 AM.
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME) 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: Dartski68]
#2511683
06/22/18 11:47 AM
06/22/18 11:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515
So. Burlington, Vt.
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It would be interesting to know what the ratio is between needle bearing vs bushing, of the roller lifters that have failed on Drag Week.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: Dartski68]
#2511829
06/22/18 05:28 PM
06/22/18 05:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,926 Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,926
Ontario, Canada
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EZ Max bushed lifters. They don't use a bronze bushing. Well do they or don't they ??
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: Stanton]
#2511842
06/22/18 05:55 PM
06/22/18 05:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169 Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
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[quote]EZ Max bushed lifters. They don't use a bronze bushing. Well do they or don't they ?? [/quote They don't call it Bronze. It might have some in it you could call isky to find out......
Last edited by Old School; 06/22/18 05:59 PM.
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME) 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: Dartski68]
#2511908
06/22/18 09:25 PM
06/22/18 09:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213
New York
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Just that tiny error in "applications": here is the corrected list High spring pressure High spring pressure High spring pressure High spring pressure High spring pressure High spring pressure High spring pressure High spring pressure High spring pressure High spring pressure High spring pressure High spring pressure High spring pressure
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: Old School]
#2511983
06/22/18 11:54 PM
06/22/18 11:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610 long time lurker, short time p...
PorkyPig
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610
long time lurker, short time p...
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I use the isky Red Zone EZ Max bushed lifters. They don't use a bronze bushing. I have ruined three of my Street Motors using needle bearing roller lifters.
How much spring pressure do you run on the street? How much driving do you do on the street?
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: PorkyPig]
#2512096
06/23/18 11:28 AM
06/23/18 11:28 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169 Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
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I use the isky Red Zone EZ Max bushed lifters. They don't use a bronze bushing. I have ruined three of my Street Motors using needle bearing roller lifters.
How much spring pressure do you run on the street? How much driving do you do on the street? On mine I am about 260 seat 785 open. I drive only a couple thousand miles a year.....
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME) 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: Old School]
#2512690
06/24/18 06:44 PM
06/24/18 06:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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I use the isky Red Zone EZ Max bushed lifters. They don't use a bronze bushing. I have ruined three of my Street Motors using needle bearing roller lifters.
How much spring pressure do you run on the street? How much driving do you do on the street? On mine I am about 260 seat 785 open. I drive only a couple thousand miles a year..... If you need almost 800#s open pressure, you're probably not running a cam that I would consider for a "street motor". No wonder your lifters didn't hold up. Yeah, you drive it on the street, but you're not really building it with any realistic expectations of longer-term durability.
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: BradH]
#2512697
06/24/18 07:05 PM
06/24/18 07:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169 Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
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I use the isky Red Zone EZ Max bushed lifters. They don't use a bronze bushing. I have ruined three of my Street Motors using needle bearing roller lifters.
How much spring pressure do you run on the street? How much driving do you do on the street? On mine I am about 260 seat 785 open. I drive only a couple thousand miles a year..... If you need almost 800#s open pressure, you're probably not running a cam that I would consider for a "street motor". No wonder your lifters didn't hold up. Yeah, you drive it on the street, but you're not really building it with any realistic expectations of longer-term durability. All of that above, is correct....
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME) 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: Dartski68]
#2512943
06/25/18 11:32 AM
06/25/18 11:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,416 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,416
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I have Isky Red Zone solid roller lifters 3472-RH in my hemi. They have needle bearings and were bought in 2006. They didn't offer the bushed lifters back then or that's what I would have gotten. I've sent them back for a check-up twice since then, once in '08, last time in '12. Didn't need anything so back in they went. My cam has mild lobes and doesn't need a lot of spring pressure...220# closed, 600# open. I'll be stepping up to a much stronger spring soon, possibly a new cam, and will be sending these lifters back to Isky for yet another check up. I'll evaluate what is needed then.
My KB block has no pressurized lifter oiling. They just get splash and drainback oil. Like said earlier, oiling is rarely the issue w/ lifter failure...it's spring pressure.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: Dartski68]
#2512994
06/25/18 01:09 PM
06/25/18 01:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,416 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,416
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Just FYI...Just got an email back from Isky saying my old style needle bearing Red Zone lifters can be converted to solid bushings for less than half the price of a set of new ones.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: Dartski68]
#2513002
06/25/18 01:18 PM
06/25/18 01:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Chip, if you go that route...... get the upgraded “speedway” bushings.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2513048
06/25/18 02:47 PM
06/25/18 02:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,416 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,416
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Chip, if you go that route...... get the upgraded “speedway” bushings. OK, I was quoted $650 for the EZX upgrade up to 900 psi spring pressure and $720 for the EZMAX upgrade for over 900 psi and/or supercharged/turbo applications.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: Dartski68]
#2513052
06/25/18 02:55 PM
06/25/18 02:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515
So. Burlington, Vt.
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I think the speedway bushings hold up better when you only have splash oiling.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: BB solid roller lifter
[Re: Dartski68]
#2514406
06/28/18 01:08 PM
06/28/18 01:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,592 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
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I Live Here
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Posts: 12,592
Great Neck,LI,new york
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Last season I rebuilt a set of Comp 869s for the 3rd time.1 lifter had to be replaced with the superceded lifter.Even though the the link bar is at a different height it was not an issue.I have gone upwards of 8k miles on a rebuild which was close to 10k miles.640ish lift with 560 over the nose. 545 inch blown hemi that makes the track 4 or 5 times a year if I'm lucky.
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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