Re: Dart Small Block Mopar Blocks
[Re: ric3xrt]
#2495674
05/13/18 08:36 PM
05/13/18 08:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776 Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Real question - if Monday morning, Maskin said "Let's build R blocks." how long would it be before someone could make a phone call and have one within a reasonable amount of time? realistically about a year. I would bet 3 years unless they had old molds handed to them. 10-15 years ago yes , with todays rapid sand casting proto typing, Molds for cores could take as little as 2 weeks depending on how many core molds you need, most engine blocks are 14-18 core molds. With 3d mapping you could take a stock 340 or R3 Block map it out create the molds...max 2 weeks to make the molds....it just takes someone with money and the willingness to take the chance. Last year when my cousin and I shopped around our G3 block, with our molds we had quotes for delivery in as little as 9 months. at $950K-1m up front I could get 500-600 blocks over 1 year......what are the chances we could sell that many in a year? [/quote] The question is not "Can it be done" it is "can you sell them" R3 is out dated with the heads that are available. Now an R3 with P7 or P5 heads! Now you have something that most want and need. Matt
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Re: Dart Small Block Mopar Blocks
[Re: coletrickle]
#2495698
05/13/18 10:06 PM
05/13/18 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163
Melbourne , Australia
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Just out of intrest,if you google Up creek garage here in Australia and go to our work you can see how a 1909 Grand Prix engine block was created using 3d printing/pattern making etc.There is a video from the 730 report on how it was done.I can find out roughly how much is was to do one a mate has the same problem and knows the owner,it would have been expensive but they had patterns made,so i can be done but obviously it costs.The CSIRO also do printed titanium rapid prototyping,last time i spoke to them it was $750 aussie dollars per kilo for "stuff"u send the cad program. CSIRO has a Voxeljet printer that prints the sand cores. If you are doing one or two castings, it can be more economical than making patterns. Ex One make a machine that does the same thing. They also make a machine that prints metal parts using a similar process (Metal powder with a binder). The part has to be fired afterwards, and is very similar to a casting once done. https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/MF/Areas/Metals/Lab22/DelageCSIRO use an electron beam 3D printer, not sure how they arrive at the $750 a kilo price tag, their machine must be more expensive to run than the SLM printers we have at my work.
Alan Jones
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Re: Dart Small Block Mopar Blocks
[Re: LA360]
#2495710
05/13/18 10:44 PM
05/13/18 10:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,273 Here
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,273
Here
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Curious, is all this new tech also suitable for heads, meaning maybe, a small run of alum Slant 6 heads?
" All sorts of things can happen when you are open to new Ideas" Inventor of Kevlar
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Re: Dart Small Block Mopar Blocks
[Re: jcc]
#2495812
05/14/18 03:55 AM
05/14/18 03:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163
Melbourne , Australia
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The Voxeljet printer would be able to do the cores I'd imagine. Someone has to still do the CAD. Not sure at what point (I mean quantity) that making the patterns would be more economical. The cost per item doesn't change with 3D printing the sand cores, so you may find doing it 3 or 4 heads, you may be better off making patterns. I have been meaning to look in to it for myself for some transmission cases.
Alan Jones
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Re: Dart Small Block Mopar Blocks
[Re: 340Cuda]
#2496014
05/14/18 03:23 PM
05/14/18 03:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,478 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,478
Kalispell Mt.
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A short deck might be nice for huge budget builders but again they are a very small part of the potential market. The best volume seller is going to be hands down a std deck height, most bracket and street racers are going big cube strokers because it is so easy even in a stock block and the problem is a stock block can EASY swallow 4.25 inch strokes (440ish CID) then bolt on some 1/2 decent victor-W8-W9... and you will break the block, maybe the decks could be cast with enough extra meat to lop off 1/2 inch if you have unlimited budgets and want or need a short stroke high RPM deal. They would not have to actually machine and sell short deck blocks but the block could be turned into one if so desired by the guys who can afford to actually do those type engines. As for main bearing size do it in std 340 size, a 360 crank can be turned down but not the other way around and the rich guys can figure out a way to run smaller journals (bearing spacers, weld up re-machine) if the rest of the block fits their needs. The only two things I personally would want that a lot of guys may not apreciate is siamese bores and head bolts anchored way down low to spread the clamping load better across the deck but I could live without either, if I got both for $3000 in a "check and run" condition I would buy one in a heart beat.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Dart Small Block Mopar Blocks
[Re: LA360]
#2496141
05/14/18 08:18 PM
05/14/18 08:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,289 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,289
Fulton County, PA
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I have been meaning to look in to it for myself for some transmission cases. Another can of worms.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Dart Small Block Mopar Blocks
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2496199
05/14/18 10:43 PM
05/14/18 10:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163
Melbourne , Australia
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I have been meaning to look in to it for myself for some transmission cases. Another can of worms. There is certainly a hole in the market, but I've no intention of filling it. I want to do a handful of 904 cases for myself, that a Reid bell bolts too.
Alan Jones
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Re: Dart Small Block Mopar Blocks
[Re: Jason B]
#2496968
05/16/18 09:43 PM
05/16/18 09:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397 Carson City, Nevada
Biginchmopar
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
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Well we should be on the dyno very soon with our big port Brett Miller victors and Ritter block so stay tuned I’ll start a post when we’re up and running
Jason Go Jason Go! As soon as I get mine back I'll post what I can. Brett Miller W9/Ritter
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