Re: Wire/Groove Around Combustions Chamber on Heads - Why?
[Re: Jeremiah]
#2396596
11/01/17 12:19 PM
11/01/17 12:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,492 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,492
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Before the MLS gaskets came about, everyone used copper head gaskets and O-rings in either the block or head deck surface. That was the only way to seal them up when the composite type gaskets would blow out from too much cylinder pressure...whether it be from boost, nitrous, or just high compression. If at all possible, I'd run an MLS gasket. Remove the wire from the grooves and either mill the heads flat again, fill the grooves w/ some epoxy, or possibly just leave the grooves in place if they don't interfere w/ anything. Copper gaskets are a PITA.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Wire/Groove Around Combustions Chamber on Heads - Why?
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2396622
11/01/17 01:11 PM
11/01/17 01:11 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,492 northern,Ohio,USA
Clanton
master
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master
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,492
northern,Ohio,USA
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Before the MLS gaskets came about, everyone used copper head gaskets and O-rings in either the block or head deck surface. That was the only way to seal them up when the composite type gaskets would blow out from too much cylinder pressure...whether it be from boost, nitrous, or just high compression. If at all possible, I'd run an MLS gasket. Remove the wire from the grooves and either mill the heads flat again, fill the grooves w/ some epoxy, or possibly just leave the grooves in place if they don't interfere w/ anything. Copper gaskets are a PITA. I built my engine just as the MLS was coming out and wish I could use them some times.
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Re: Wire/Groove Around Combustions Chamber on Heads - Why?
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2396686
11/01/17 02:44 PM
11/01/17 02:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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Before the MLS gaskets came about, everyone used copper head gaskets and O-rings in either the block or head deck surface. Copper gaskets are a PITA. I have a set of solid copper gaskets ($$$) potentially going on a 9-1 race engine. Do I need to O ring the deck? the SCE rep said to use indian head brown sealer cement & that would suffice & you'd think he would know but I'm concerned, what do YOU think? Thank you.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Wire/Groove Around Combustions Chamber on Heads - Why?
[Re: Jeremiah]
#2396692
11/01/17 03:00 PM
11/01/17 03:00 PM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 170 Wisconsin
Medlock51
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 170
Wisconsin
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My 383 SBM has o-ringed heads and block. It's a 13 1/2 to 1 alky dirt track engine.
I don't know what kind of gaskets it had when it was fresh in '93 but it has Fel-Pro's installed during the last time it was opened up in 2007... still used the o-rings and the original builder did the refresh.
Now it's getting redone again and I would imagine I'll use the newer MLS gaskets... Fel-Pro or maybe a Cometic brand. Hell I might go back to a steel shim gasket... who knows. I'll be talking to the engine shop this week.
RR... with a 9-1 I would thing the coppers would do just fine.
Last edited by Medlock51; 11/01/17 03:01 PM.
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Re: Wire/Groove Around Combustions Chamber on Heads - Why?
[Re: Medlock51]
#2396698
11/01/17 03:06 PM
11/01/17 03:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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^^^ thank you (& I feel lucky!).
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Wire/Groove Around Combustions Chamber on Heads - Why?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2396945
11/01/17 09:00 PM
11/01/17 09:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,804 Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,804
Wichita
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Depending on the diameter of the wire used you may need a receiver groove in the block to make the O rings work correctly Most of the new Fel Pro race head gaskets come with a built in stainless steel fire ring enclosed in the gaskets, your suppose to use a receiver groove on them also, most racers don't The new Fel-Pro gaskets that are absolute garbage? Those Fel-Pro gaskets?
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
9.92 @ 135mph with a 350 shot of nitrous and 93 octane pump. 1.43 60 ft. 3,750 lbs.
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Re: Wire/Groove Around Combustions Chamber on Heads - Why?
[Re: GY3]
#2397006
11/01/17 10:24 PM
11/01/17 10:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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What part # (of the felpros')?
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Wire/Groove Around Combustions Chamber on Heads - Why?
[Re: Jeremiah]
#2397042
11/01/17 11:01 PM
11/01/17 11:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593
Great Neck,LI,new york
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I recently put a set of aluminum heads on that had the groove installed.Removed the rings,tigged the grooves and milled the head back to it was and a tad to clean it up.
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Wire/Groove Around Combustions Chamber on Heads - Why?
[Re: Jeremiah]
#2397070
11/01/17 11:23 PM
11/01/17 11:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
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I have the exact same setup. ported 345cc -1's with O-rings. I'm using Flatout Gasket rubberized copper gaskets. The object of the rubberized coating was for coolant leaks, but it still trickled a little. I pulled the heads off, added a smear of silicone RTV around the water ports and slapped them back together. Used the same head gaskets. Works fine. No receiver groove in the block deck. Just bolt them on and go. I believe the SCE Titan series gaskets have silicone O-rings around the ports already, but also have an extra wire in the gasket for the combustion seal. I don't know how that will work out with the head O-rings. I would use plain copper or rubberizes and be done with it.
[image][/image]
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Re: Wire/Groove Around Combustions Chamber on Heads - Why?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2397334
11/02/17 02:55 PM
11/02/17 02:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,492 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,492
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Before the MLS gaskets came about, everyone used copper head gaskets and O-rings in either the block or head deck surface. Copper gaskets are a PITA. I have a set of solid copper gaskets ($$$) potentially going on a 9-1 race engine. Do I need to O ring the deck? the SCE rep said to use indian head brown sealer cement & that would suffice & you'd think he would know but I'm concerned, what do YOU think? Thank you. I don't know...never seen a motor run copper gaskets without O-rings. I sure wouldn't run copper gaskets if I didn't absolutely have to. They can be a PITA to seal up (water and oil). I'm not a fan of having to slather silicone all over a head gasket to make it seal up. The newer style copper gaskets w/ the embedded silicone rings around the holes may be better. The last copper gaskets I used were just pure copper.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Wire/Groove Around Combustions Chamber on Heads - Why?
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2397339
11/02/17 03:06 PM
11/02/17 03:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719
Bend,OR USA
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I've had success running the SCE brand plain original copper head gaskets on several street motors back when that was all they offered and I have used successfully the new Titan ICS copper head gaskets also without O rings or receiver grooves
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/02/17 03:07 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Wire/Groove Around Combustions Chamber on Heads - Why?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2398349
11/04/17 11:58 AM
11/04/17 11:58 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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I've had success running the SCE brand plain original copper head gaskets on several street motors back when that was all they offered and I have used successfully the new Titan ICS copper head gaskets also without O rings or receiver grooves Cab did you run em plain or with sealer?
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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