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Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2353271
08/13/17 04:06 PM
08/13/17 04:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline OP
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Dave Hall  Offline OP
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You don't clean up everything with a scotch brite wheel? Of course I'm not aggressive with it, just enough to clean it up. Nothing a little air and a shop vac. won't handle.

Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2353297
08/13/17 05:46 PM
08/13/17 05:46 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Not the first time I've seen this. Usually iron heads at 40-42 degrees timing. It is detonation. I'll bet between cylinders 4/6 or 3/5? More heat there with the paired exhaust ports. No gasket will withstand detonation forever. 15.9-1 needs a decent gasket for sure. The real question is what caused the detonation? How much timing? How much cam timing? How is the oil control in the cylinder? How do the rod bearings look? For what its worth my 572, -1, runs 15-1 on Renegade 114 , Cometics, studs, 32 degrees, 285@.050, 112LCA in at 108. Never an issue. Reused the gaskets 3 times, 450 passes.
Doug

Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2353316
08/13/17 06:36 PM
08/13/17 06:36 PM
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Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
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Just FYI ... stochiometric for Q is in the mid 13s while gas is mid 14s so the carb will be lean by almost a full point if you don't rejet for Q.

Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2353369
08/13/17 10:20 PM
08/13/17 10:20 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
Originally Posted By Dave Hall
Thanks guys! Wow! That much? Time for Q16...I've been meaning to do it for awhile now, might as well bite the bullet...Piston to valve is better than .120, time for a .027 gasket and way more cam... drive


Do you need a Q16 carb? I have a 1250 Dominator that is set up for Q16 that I've been thinking about selling. Running Q16 requires a lot more than just bigger jets. BLP converted my carb for Q16 and they changed the metering blocks, bleeds, jets and upper jets.

Of course if you are running EFI then you just type in some new numbers and you're locked and loaded for Q!

Last edited by AndyF; 08/13/17 10:21 PM.
Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2353376
08/13/17 11:06 PM
08/13/17 11:06 PM
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Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline OP
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Yeah I need a new carb, can I afford it? No. Thanks for the offer! What's your opinion on cleaning up gasket surfaces with a red scotch brite wheel? Andy? Rich? It's always worked great for me. Note that this engine has been raced, pretty soft really, going 10.90 for about 5 years with the -1's and some wfo brackets now and then. The entire engine was freshened in 2012. -1's added at the beginning of 2014. It always ran on 114 or 116 until I got that dreaded barrel of 110. I think 15-1 is a little high of an estimate as ootb -1's are SAID to be 72cc and haven't actually been measured.

Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2353392
08/13/17 11:49 PM
08/13/17 11:49 PM
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Shelby Twp. Mi
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Originally Posted By Dave Hall
That's a good point! I don't know the exact compression as I went from an 88cc chamber to a 72 cc when I put the -1's on it. It was blue printed at 12.9 originally. I was running 116 Sunoco as it was the same price as 114 at the Sonoma pump. I scored a basically free barrell of VP 110. It sure seemed to like the VP fuel better.
I went over the block with a scotch brite wheel and it just has this little etch. I think I'll run it for the last couple races after getting the head fixed. With some better ⛽️!

Get the shortblock OUT and upside down or at least perpendicular (for cleaning debris) so you can LAP that void out. LAP the whole deck surface, not just locally. See what it takes LOCALLY to get a feel for how deep the void is and if it can be removed. I'd get a feel for WHERE the loading 'ring' of whatever gasket you using is in relation to the void. You can probably take about .003" out pretty easily...just takes patience and time.

Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2353407
08/14/17 12:19 AM
08/14/17 12:19 AM
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Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline OP
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I'm definitely not taking the engine from the car right now. It only has a couple of races to go to finish the season. I'll fix a bunch of stuff this winter. I will clean up the whole surface using a shop vac and my wheel, I have Cometic's on order and cross my fingers using some Sunoco 116 for now. Hopefully I can get the head fixed in time for Sunday. Taking them apart now.

Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2353520
08/14/17 10:53 AM
08/14/17 10:53 AM
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sometimes "good enough" will get you through.... hope you can fix her up!!

Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2353551
08/14/17 12:19 PM
08/14/17 12:19 PM
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Posts: 19,384
Las Vegas
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Las Vegas
Dave like we talked yesterday for what you have planned just proceed as necessary. Get the head fixed and throw a decent gasket on it and watch it. Is it optimal, no but will it get you buy the rest of the year, likely so. Obviously the 110 was the biggest issue and the piston tops show some detonation. Watch the oil pressure as well as detonation will KILL rod bearings.

As for the carb, I have one sitting at home ready for Q if you need it. Say the word and it will be on its way. Or send me yours, we can make it ready for Q. Just say the word.

Also the dragster is sitting at the house waiting for you if you need it too. Wish I was closer you could use it this weekend. If you need it to finish out the year or at the ET finals its all yours. Also if you need any bits and pieces I am sure we can help. I have a fresh set of heads as well as the carb..

Last edited by Al_Alguire; 08/14/17 01:57 PM.

"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2353574
08/14/17 12:48 PM
08/14/17 12:48 PM
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State of confusion
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Originally Posted By Dave Hall
I'm definitely not taking the engine from the car right now. It only has a couple of races to go to finish the season. I'll fix a bunch of stuff this winter. I will clean up the whole surface using a shop vac and my wheel, I have Cometic's on order and cross my fingers using some Sunoco 116 for now. Hopefully I can get the head fixed in time for Sunday. Taking them apart now.


I thought the Cometics needed a very fine finish to seal no scratches like above...............


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Thumperdart] #2353616
08/14/17 01:51 PM
08/14/17 01:51 PM
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Washington
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madscientist Offline
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Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Originally Posted By Dave Hall
I'm definitely not taking the engine from the car right now. It only has a couple of races to go to finish the season. I'll fix a bunch of stuff this winter. I will clean up the whole surface using a shop vac and my wheel, I have Cometic's on order and cross my fingers using some Sunoco 116 for now. Hopefully I can get the head fixed in time for Sunday. Taking them apart now.


I thought the Cometics needed a very fine finish to seal no scratches like above...............



They can be used with a bit rougher surface than they call for. Since he's trying to finish the year I agree with Al. He will be just fine to finish the year.

Pretty damn nice of Al to offer him a carb or to tune up his.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: madscientist] #2353677
08/14/17 03:52 PM
08/14/17 03:52 PM
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State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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That Al guy is pretty cool............. thumbs


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2353843
08/14/17 07:54 PM
08/14/17 07:54 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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If I need to use a steel gasket with a less than perfect surface I spray on a liberal coat of copper coat, seems to work ok around here even though that is not what the manufacturers call for.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2353891
08/14/17 09:32 PM
08/14/17 09:32 PM
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Milwaukee WI
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There's no water to worry about at that location. I wouldn't sweat it at all.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2354083
08/15/17 05:01 AM
08/15/17 05:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline OP
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Dave Hall  Offline OP
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Thanks for all the confidence guys! Al, you are the MAN!!! You know what's mine is also yours and when you or Steven want to race my car it's all yours. He's a fricken bada$$ by the way...
Dropped the heads off with Angie tonight and she will tune them up proper. Should have 'em back by Thursday, I gotta get busy. Shout out to Dave's Machine and Mopar Engines West for accommodating my last minute needs.
I was planning on tacking the gaskets up with copper seal keeping my fingers crossed. I will get the engine out this winter and give it a proper freshen up and then probably sell it or maybe the whole shebang. I am dropping in a fresh set of roller lifters and resealing the intake which needed to be done anyway. Should make a little more vacuum. It's amazing to me that this little 493 has been so great. It's a happy camper and I am pretty ashamed of not taking better care of it in the fuel department. I'm glad it wasn't a complete meltdown lesson.

Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2354891
08/16/17 03:18 PM
08/16/17 03:18 PM
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California, USA!!!
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Probably would'nt hurt ya if you pulled a couple degrees of timing out of her also. Thats a lot of compression.

Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2354993
08/16/17 06:17 PM
08/16/17 06:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline OP
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Dave Hall  Offline OP
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Head is fixed. Now if Summit would just show up...

IMG_0244.JPG
Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2354995
08/16/17 06:19 PM
08/16/17 06:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline OP
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The engine likes 34 degrees and really hates anything but. 116 from now on.

Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: Dave Hall] #2355016
08/16/17 06:52 PM
08/16/17 06:52 PM
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Washington
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madscientist Offline
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Originally Posted By Dave Hall
Head is fixed. Now if Summit would just show up...


That will seal fine with a cometic. You are close to pooping in the tall cotton.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Doesn't look like I'll be back soon... [Re: madscientist] #2355033
08/16/17 07:38 PM
08/16/17 07:38 PM
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PA.
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Dave I wish I still had pictures to show you what happened to me years ago. I had a .030 440 engine that ran 9.80's 30 plus years ago with a stock block and ported 906 heads. I was going rounds but the car kept slowing every round so I kept bumping my dial slower. I lost in the final on Sunday afternoon and loaded up and when I took a leakdown i could tell there was an issue between cylinder 3 and 5 so I pulled the head. Both my block and head were torched over .125 so after a day of making phone calls found a guy 25 miles away that said to bring it over. The head was no problem but with the engine still in the car I lowered the pistons as much as I could and wrapped the cylinders with keyowool and and fiberglass cloth. He checked it out and said he could do it in the car but asked me how I could machine it. As a Millwright we did stuff like this everyday so I told him I would get it close with a 3 inch grinder and then file it to within .002-.003 and it would seal. He said he would charge me 125.00 to weld both the head and block. I then gave him some nickel stick welding rod we used in the mill. He called the next day (Wednesday) and said it was done so I flew up to get my Duster. When I took a look the whole job was finished and filed flat. He told me he couldn't believe that it could be done so he had to try. He did a great job and when I asked how much I owed he said 100.00 (25.00 less than quoted) for more work. He said hey I learned something and by doing that he would be able to apply it in his trade. I put it back together Thursday after work and raced Friday night. That block is still in a street car today and the heads are in my downstairs garage.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




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