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Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: Dart451] #2327778
06/27/17 11:15 PM
06/27/17 11:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 506
Utah, USA
1
1964superstock Offline
mopar
1964superstock  Offline
mopar
1

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 506
Utah, USA
Plus and minus to the 440 or 400 block combo.

My preferred engine: The 383/400 block engine is overall less wide and less tall. This means actual room for your hands and socket/ratchet to change spark plugs on the passenger side. Also gives you more hood clearance, which is great. 383/400 block also weighs less, and the 400 block has stronger main webbing as mentioned. More room for header clearance. I personally think they look better also, more compact. Downside, intake selection has less choices, but enough to get the job done. No max wedge crossram, unless you run stage 6 mopar heads.

The 440 block engine has the most selection for intake manifolds, and is probably a little easier to build. However the 440 has downsides: block main webbing is not as strong, heavier, wider, taller, less clearance to work on the passenger side spark plugs (really non existent for #2, 4 cylinders). The crappy clearance issues for the spark plugs/headers, and less hood clearance using a 440 block is enough to really consider building a 383/400 based engine in my book. Note: Small block mopars have awesome spark plug access, way smaller overall size, weight...worth considering a 408 stroker type build.

I personally have based 440 based engine 505 stroker, flywheel dyno'd 620 HP @ 5900 / 620 torque @ 4800, 4.25 stroke/7.1 Rod, Keith Black forged flat top pistons, A&A max wedge cross ram with two 600 cfm Edelbrock carbs, Edelbrock RPM heads, CNC ported by Modern Cylinder Head, Bullet solid flat tappet cam 259/263 @ 0.050, nearly .600 lift, 108 centerline, BHJ balancer, TTI 2 inch headers, 10.5 compression. Never run down the quarter but its super fun and fast enough. Will run on pump gas but likes 100 or 110 leaded octane better with more advance like 35 degrees. 4:10 Dana, with A-1 4800 stall 8 inch converter, and Pro-Trans full manual 727. Installed in my 1964 Plymouth Savoy, street legal and driven often. Yes...I hate changing the spark plugs on the passenger side.


Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: Dart451] #2327856
06/28/17 01:16 AM
06/28/17 01:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 667
IL
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Dart451 Offline OP
mopar
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IL
Eagle offers a 498 kit should be more then enough for my combination. Plan on running what was on the 440. 590 cam, some ported 452 heads, crane roller rockers. Would love to get some trick flow 240.

What would be a good low deck intake for this combo?


Just tore down the 400 everything looked good. Anyone need any stock 400 parts lol

Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: Dart451] #2327870
06/28/17 01:58 AM
06/28/17 01:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,005
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
I Win
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Posts: 31,005
Oregon
Trick Flow makes the best low deck standard port intake so if you're going with the 400 block that is what I'd run. It is fairly tall so you might need a hood scoop of some sort.

If you build the short block for the 240 heads then it will be easier to switch down the road. The compression will be a little low with the 452 heads but you can drive it like that for a year or so and then when you have the money you can bolt on the 240 heads and be ready to go.

Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: Dart451] #2327872
06/28/17 02:02 AM
06/28/17 02:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 234
Brisvegas, Australia
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Alchemi Offline
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Alchemi  Offline
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Posts: 234
Brisvegas, Australia
Please check the weights of the kits you are looking at - as alluded in other posts - the lighter the internals, the better it will survive. Eagle parts are not lightweight unless marketed that way

6.535 sized molinar rods vs eagle 736g vs 805g
Icon/source/diamond have the lightest "cheap" forged pistons
source have a "lightweight" (4lbs less off 69-70lbs)4.25 crank for 900 vs 750 for a std one

Intake - your going to hear Edelbrock performer RPM allot

Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: Dart451] #2327925
06/28/17 09:37 AM
06/28/17 09:37 AM
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Posts: 667
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Dart451 Offline OP
mopar
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Trying to keep everything on time and in budget is the biggest goal.
Plan on shifting at 6000 rpm will talk to machine shop this morning and see if they have other options besides eagle.

Car already has a good size scoop.

26may17.jpg
Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: Dart451] #2328012
06/28/17 12:06 PM
06/28/17 12:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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State of confusion
Originally Posted By Dart451
Trying to keep everything on time and in budget is the biggest goal.
Plan on shifting at 6000 rpm will talk to machine shop this morning and see if they have other options besides eagle.

Car already has a good size scoop.


Don't fall into the dual-plane craziness............. tsk


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: Dart451] #2328051
06/28/17 01:26 PM
06/28/17 01:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 667
IL
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Dart451 Offline OP
mopar
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IL
The trans stall is to high and eliminates any theoretical advantage of a dual plane.

Summit single plane intake pricing

Weiand team G $270
Victor 300.60
Torker 303.52
Trick Flow 349.97

Not sure how they really stack up. Will have to research more.

Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: Dart451] #2328053
06/28/17 01:30 PM
06/28/17 01:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357
Marion, South Carolina [><]
Originally Posted By Dart451
The trans stall is to high and eliminates any theoretical advantage of a dual plane.

Summit single plane intake pricing

Weiand team G $270
Victor 300.60
Torker 303.52
Trick Flow 349.97

Not sure how they really stack up. Will have to research more.

Anything but the Team G.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2328062
06/28/17 01:54 PM
06/28/17 01:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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Joined: Jul 2004
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State of confusion
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Originally Posted By Dart451
The trans stall is to high and eliminates any theoretical advantage of a dual plane.

Summit single plane intake pricing

Weiand team G $270
Victor 300.60
Torker 303.52
Trick Flow 349.97

Not sure how they really stack up. Will have to research more.

Anything but the Team G.


iagree Especially on low decks.............


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: Dart451] #2328065
06/28/17 02:04 PM
06/28/17 02:04 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
Iowan Offline
super stock
Iowan  Offline
super stock

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
Team G is garbage on a RB also!!!!!
The only thing there good for is the scrap pile.


Have a great day
Iowan

"obsolete is neat"

Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: Dart451] #2328069
06/28/17 02:12 PM
06/28/17 02:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,493
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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So. Burlington, Vt.
I'm with Andy on this one.

Get the TF.

IMO, the only TG that was worth anything was the RB 4500 version.

The low deck 4500 version wasn't too bad if you welded up the bolt reliefs in the 4 inner runners and ported that area to get rid if the choke point.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2328111
06/28/17 03:56 PM
06/28/17 03:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
I'm with Andy on this one.

Get the TF.

IMO, the only TG that was worth anything was the RB 4500 version.

The low deck 4500 version wasn't too bad if you welded up the bolt reliefs in the 4 inner runners and ported that area to get rid if the choke point.


Those were crazy restricting for sure but after that extra work how'd to get the bolts in............They were stupid tight as cast......... down


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: Thumperdart] #2328116
06/28/17 04:03 PM
06/28/17 04:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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an8sec70cuda  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357
Marion, South Carolina [><]
Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
I'm with Andy on this one.

Get the TF.

IMO, the only TG that was worth anything was the RB 4500 version.

The low deck 4500 version wasn't too bad if you welded up the bolt reliefs in the 4 inner runners and ported that area to get rid if the choke point.


Those were crazy restricting for sure but after that extra work how'd to get the bolts in............They were stupid tight as cast......... down

Probably had to use a small allen head bolt, or something similar.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: Dart451] #2328210
06/28/17 07:48 PM
06/28/17 07:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,460
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline
top fuel
tex013  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,460
Sydney,Australia
I run a 440 source 505 , 4.25 stroke 7.1 rod .
11.0:1 . 272@050 solid flat tappet , .600 lift .
In my Satellite has gone 10.53s and over 126mph best so far . So around 615 flywheel hp .But this does run a 5000 stall and 4.1 gear . This is my daily that I also bracket race .
I went Dougs 2"headers - way better plug access over the 1 7/8 hookers .
I have Source CNC heads by Modern .
Has only been running since January but no issues other than getting the 4150 carb right .
I shift at 6000 trap 66/6700 , 28"radial slick
There would be more hp in a roller cam , better heads and a 4500 carb but I am happy

Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2328258
06/28/17 08:55 PM
06/28/17 08:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
I'm with Andy on this one.

Get the TF.

IMO, the only TG that was worth anything was the RB 4500 version.

The low deck 4500 version wasn't too bad if you welded up the bolt reliefs in the 4 inner runners and ported that area to get rid if the choke point.


Those were crazy restricting for sure but after that extra work how'd to get the bolts in............They were stupid tight as cast......... down

Probably had to use a small allen head bolt, or something similar.


I think it's a "secret"............ biggrin


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: Dart451] #2328312
06/28/17 10:38 PM
06/28/17 10:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,493
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,493
So. Burlington, Vt.
I guess I didn't realize it needed an answer.

In my case, I didn't have the recesses in the outside of the runners filled in completely in the area directly adjacent to the bolts.

I did a little clearancing around the bolt area and test fit the intake and made sure I could get all the bolts in prior to doing any porting in the runners, and just didn't open them up fully at the bottom where it started to feel thin.
I still ended up barely dimpling one of them...... And I smeared a little JB weld on the outside to seal any possible leak.

I used header bolts with the heads ground a little shorter in those 4 holes.

This all happened quite a long while ago, but as I recall the intake mod was worth over a tenth on a friends S/G car.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: tex013] #2328345
06/28/17 11:38 PM
06/28/17 11:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,669
Wichita
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GY3 Offline
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GY3  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,669
Wichita
Originally Posted By tex013
I run a 440 source 505 , 4.25 stroke 7.1 rod .
11.0:1 . 272@050 solid flat tappet , .600 lift .
In my Satellite has gone 10.53s and over 126mph best so far . So around 615 flywheel hp .But this does run a 5000 stall and 4.1 gear . This is my daily that I also bracket race .
I went Dougs 2"headers - way better plug access over the 1 7/8 hookers .
I have Source CNC heads by Modern .
Has only been running since January but no issues other than getting the 4150 carb right .
I shift at 6000 trap 66/6700 , 28"radial slick
There would be more hp in a roller cam , better heads and a 4500 carb but I am happy

Tex


Very impressive!


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: tex013] #2328349
06/28/17 11:47 PM
06/28/17 11:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 142
Chattanooga, TN
KDY Offline
member
KDY  Offline
member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 142
Chattanooga, TN
Originally Posted By tex013
I run a 440 source 505 , 4.25 stroke 7.1 rod .
11.0:1 . 272@050 solid flat tappet , .600 lift .
In my Satellite has gone 10.53s and over 126mph best so far . So around 615 flywheel hp .But this does run a 5000 stall and 4.1 gear . This is my daily that I also bracket race .
I went Dougs 2"headers - way better plug access over the 1 7/8 hookers .
I have Source CNC heads by Modern .
Has only been running since January but no issues other than getting the 4150 carb right .
I shift at 6000 trap 66/6700 , 28"radial slick
There would be more hp in a roller cam , better heads and a 4500 carb but I am happy

Tex


I obviously have the wrong daily driver!

Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2328355
06/28/17 11:56 PM
06/28/17 11:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
I guess I didn't realize it needed an answer.

In my case, I didn't have the recesses in the outside of the runners filled in completely in the area directly adjacent to the bolts.

I did a little clearancing around the bolt area and test fit the intake and made sure I could get all the bolts in prior to doing any porting in the runners, and just didn't open them up fully at the bottom where it started to feel thin.
I still ended up barely dimpling one of them...... And I smeared a little JB weld on the outside to seal any possible leak.

I used header bolts with the heads ground a little shorter in those 4 holes.

This all happened quite a long while ago, but as I recall the intake mod was worth over a tenth on a friends S/G car.


Good info and we are lucky to have manifolds w/a hp design in mind more than a fitment thing............ thumbs


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Best combo for 600 HP Street Strip Car? [Re: Dart451] #2328539
06/29/17 12:37 PM
06/29/17 12:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
L
LaRoy Engines Offline
mopar
LaRoy Engines  Offline
mopar
L

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
You sure don't need a big stroker. With a good set of cylinder heads on a 440 or a 400/451 you can make 600 HP before 6,000 rpm on pump 91 octane.

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