Re: Peak tq rpm on a 11:1 511 with max wedge port
[Re: mopar dave]
#2305905
05/17/17 08:12 AM
05/17/17 08:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,463 Sydney,Australia
tex013
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Dave Not sure where my 505 tq peak is . It is high . I do run a 5/5200 stall vert . 272@050 flat tappet . I talked to Lenny re a tbrake verter and he agreed 5000 or just over. But not only do i daily drive it i bracket race monthly .
Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: Peak tq rpm on a 11:1 511 with max wedge port
[Re: mopar dave]
#2305951
05/17/17 10:50 AM
05/17/17 10:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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Gonna depend a lot on your induction Cam and port (from plenum to valve) cross section for a given compression can determine the OPTIMAL torque peak, Use the calculator on the Wallace racing site but you should be in the 4200-4600-ish range. When I build one I shoot for the torque not varying more than 10% from the peak from the mid 3000s to the low 6000's so IMO your converter can (within reason) pretty much be as tight or as loose as you want it to be for how you drive it. My Chapamn Stage 6's are "only" 280CC but that would compare to about 310 on an INDY or a Victor since the raised port (B to RB) Stage VI 'spacer' is cast in...all else being equal. To me when you try to turn a 511 wedge 'torque motor' into too much of a HP motor it just hurts parts and side steps a lot of otherwise useful mid range, even on a drag car tuning the chassis for the torque and loading the motor earlier and even shifting earlier/lower (to go easier on parts and springs) won't hurt the ET very much at all compared to a MAX RPM effort motor. So if I can get easily 95% of Balls out and make everything last 2X to 3X longer, that's how I do it. Opinions vary though.
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Re: Peak tq rpm on a 11:1 511 with max wedge port
[Re: Streetwize]
#2305958
05/17/17 11:06 AM
05/17/17 11:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,039 Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave
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Sounds reasonable to me. 1100 dominator on an indy 400-3. I think the intake port measured 1.250"x2.750". Ill have to check that again. Compression 11.3
Last edited by mopar dave; 05/17/17 11:11 AM.
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Re: Peak tq rpm on a 11:1 511 with max wedge port
[Re: mopar dave]
#2305989
05/17/17 11:50 AM
05/17/17 11:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,033 Oregon
AndyF
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Anyone here with a pump gas 511? I need an idea where max tq might be with this combo. Victor mw cnc to 330cc port and 270/276*@50. Just sent my vert to lenny for tightening. Thanks Formula says 5200 rpm so that is where I'd start. It could be lower if something is choking it down, could be higher if everything is really working together.
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Re: Peak tq rpm on a 11:1 511 with max wedge port
[Re: mopar dave]
#2306145
05/17/17 03:58 PM
05/17/17 03:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Streetwize
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My "formula" for wedges I suppose is a bit more conservative, what you see typically in Wedges (compared to Canted valves BBC/Cleveland Ford Derivatives and Hemis) is that the peak HP above the Torque peak tends to be a lower trajectory, which generally means the HP gains per each 100RPM above the torque peak climb at a lower rate....so to me Broad near-peak torque (as close to peak torque both above and below the peak) keeps the HP curve (if you think about it mathematically) stays more or less straight and linear until you use up the port flow. Even if your torque actual peak is 4900-5000 I'll bet it'll be very close to peak 500 rpm lower than that...is all I'm really saying. So again converter choice is in a way, a bit easier because you'll have a big/fat "sweet spot". Lenny did the converter for my buddy Nat's low-low 12 second 3800 pound 442" 401 AMC and was pretty dead-on. But again the torque is so flat, it's not hard to be happy unless you miss it WAY High or WAY low.
Wedges feel best and ET more consistently this way, and very nearly as quick...again my opinion only.
Peak or near peak torque also means near peak Volumetric efficiency....another way to say it is that high peak RPM horsepower has never been the strongest suit for Wedge Head/in-line valve motors...I think that's kinda why they make Hemis and Canted valve heads for the Higher RPM race motors. The best bolt on (non B1) BB wedge heads are still not as efficient HP makers as say a small block W5 style in terms of HP per port cc/cfm, but it's not because of the port or runner volume.... but rather its the limits of the BB Architecture,....the valve to deck angles (and related port turn radius) as well as the In-line valve placement not being on the centerline of the bores.
Cam looks to be in sweet spot where I would like it for your A body Fish. Lighter cars can get away with a bit more stall/flash all else being equal since they will act tighter at part throttle
Last edited by Streetwize; 05/17/17 05:11 PM.
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Re: Peak tq rpm on a 11:1 511 with max wedge port
[Re: mopar dave]
#2306276
05/17/17 07:50 PM
05/17/17 07:50 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,463 Sydney,Australia
tex013
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Dave , I have not ordered an Ultimate yet - moving business costs are killing me . Same goes for the tbrake . They will have to wait . I will say this . My old 440ci had peak tq right at 4000rpm . I went from a 4200 stall to a 5000 stall and the car picked up over a 1/10th . I am still running that same converter it has only gained 1-200 rpm stall I do run a 4.1 gear with 29"street tyre , 28"pro bracket radial when racing . The car is a dream to drive on the street , idles around @950 . Only know its a big stall if you nail it at low speed in top gear even then not too bad
Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: Peak tq rpm on a 11:1 511 with max wedge port
[Re: tex013]
#2306360
05/17/17 10:42 PM
05/17/17 10:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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Dave , when Lenny called me after receiving the spec sheet that I E-mailed him we talked in depth for about 1/2 hour and I let him decide what was best thru his experience and he told me he was going to set mine at 5200, I didn't take the time to verify it last weekend with so many other things to pay attention to so maybe I can get that done at the Chrysler Power Classic @ National Trails this next weekend and see how close he got it, I know it pulls like a freight train tho.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Peak tq rpm on a 11:1 511 with max wedge port
[Re: mopar dave]
#2306498
05/18/17 02:54 AM
05/18/17 02:54 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,174 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 05/18/17 02:56 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Peak tq rpm on a 11:1 511 with max wedge port
[Re: mopar dave]
#2306576
05/18/17 10:33 AM
05/18/17 10:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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Lenny will get it right, probably a fairly tight 8" would work the best, maybe 5000-5200 and flash to 5600, if you put that same vert behind your old small block it would probably FB to well over 6K...the thing to remember with converters is it's all relative to the motor/torque they are behind. Again my only point is with a big block 4.25" stroke the torque is so broad and flat to me it becomes a question of how you want it to feel when you drive on the street. I would personally give up a tenth for a more tractable cruise experience, especially in a nose heavy BB A where TRACTION is going to be the biggest issue. sometimes more grunt (not necessarily Peak torque grunt) is more fun and controllable, and I know even high stall converters can feel "kinda good" but not "great" like truly feeling the motor use all the torque to pull the car from out of the basement. Roll on torque from all over the power curve to me is the most fun part of a big block street car, but I'm spoiled driving a 2400 pound 427 Cobra replica with a manual trans...I like all my street cars to feel as close to that as possible. When I'm at the Strip I like to drag race but when I'm on the road I like my cars to feel more like a Road Race car, does that make any sense? Probably not.
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