Peak tq rpm on a 11:1 511 with max wedge port

Anyone here with a pump gas 511? I need an idea where max tq might be with this combo. Victor mw cnc to 330cc port and 270/276*@50. Just sent my vert to lenny for tightening. Thanks

Dave
Not sure where my 505 tq peak is . It is high . I do run a 5/5200 stall vert . 272@050 flat tappet . I talked to Lenny re a tbrake verter and he agreed 5000 or just over. But not only do i daily drive it i bracket race monthly .

Tex

Sounds like A nice combo. Im planning alot of street driving as well. So, how does it run? How did lenny do hitting your stall target?

Gonna depend a lot on your induction

Cam and port (from plenum to valve) cross section for a given compression can determine the OPTIMAL torque peak, Use the calculator on the Wallace racing site but you should be in the 4200-4600-ish range. When I build one I shoot for the torque not varying more than 10% from the peak from the mid 3000s to the low 6000's so IMO your converter can (within reason) pretty much be as tight or as loose as you want it to be for how you drive it. My Chapamn Stage 6's are "only" 280CC but that would compare to about 310 on an INDY or a Victor since the raised port (B to RB) Stage VI 'spacer' is cast in...all else being equal.

To me when you try to turn a 511 wedge 'torque motor' into too much of a HP motor it just hurts parts and side steps a lot of otherwise useful mid range, even on a drag car tuning the chassis for the torque and loading the motor earlier and even shifting earlier/lower (to go easier on parts and springs) won't hurt the ET very much at all compared to a MAX RPM effort motor. So if I can get easily 95% of Balls out and make everything last 2X to 3X longer, that's how I do it. Opinions vary though.

Sounds reasonable to me. 1100 dominator on an indy 400-3. I think the intake port measured 1.250"x2.750". Ill have to check that again. Compression 11.3

What is the LSA,ISL of the cam?just asking

Formula says 5200 rpm so that is where I'd start. It could be lower if something is choking it down, could be higher if everything is really working together.

110*.

5200, ok thats what the graph in Andys book shows. So what do you guys think i should ask lenny to set the target stall at to take full advantage of the mid tq curve as wise mensioned? I used to always target stall speed at max tq rpm on my small blocks. This 511 is an all new animal to me.

Why don't you give everything you know or have a good guess about to Lenny and ask him what he suggests? If this is supposed to be a street driven car and not a track only deal, he may want to compromise the ET in order to make it more drivable on the street.

I put a note in the box with the vert of this complete combo. He will be calling me once it arrives there to verify the purpose/use of combo. Just figured I would get some opinions from some here, i'm sure some of you have been thru this before with a similar combo and would like to know your results good or bad. Me, I just set it on kill and drive it on the street anyway.

My "formula" for wedges I suppose is a bit more conservative, what you see typically in Wedges (compared to Canted valves BBC/Cleveland Ford Derivatives and Hemis) is that the peak HP above the Torque peak tends to be a lower trajectory, which generally means the HP gains per each 100RPM above the torque peak climb at a lower rate....so to me Broad near-peak torque (as close to peak torque both above and below the peak) keeps the HP curve (if you think about it mathematically) stays more or less straight and linear until you use up the port flow. Even if your torque actual peak is 4900-5000 I'll bet it'll be very close to peak 500 rpm lower than that...is all I'm really saying. So again converter choice is in a way, a bit easier because you'll have a big/fat "sweet spot". Lenny did the converter for my buddy Nat's low-low 12 second 3800 pound 442" 401 AMC and was pretty dead-on. But again the torque is so flat, it's not hard to be happy unless you miss it WAY High or WAY low.

Wedges feel best and ET more consistently this way, and very nearly as quick...again my opinion only.

Peak or near peak torque also means near peak Volumetric efficiency....another way to say it is that high peak RPM horsepower has never been the strongest suit for Wedge Head/in-line valve motors...I think that's kinda why they make Hemis and Canted valve heads for the Higher RPM race motors. The best bolt on (non B1) BB wedge heads are still not as efficient HP makers as say a small block W5 style in terms of HP per port cc/cfm, but it's not because of the port or runner volume.... but rather its the limits of the BB Architecture,....the valve to deck angles (and related port turn radius) as well as the In-line valve placement not being on the centerline of the bores.

Cam looks to be in sweet spot where I would like it for your A body Fish. Lighter cars can get away with a bit more stall/flash all else being equal since they will act tighter at part throttle

Dave ,
I have not ordered an Ultimate yet - moving business costs are killing me . Same goes for the tbrake . They will have to wait .
I will say this . My old 440ci had peak tq right at 4000rpm . I went from a 4200 stall to a 5000 stall and the car picked up over a 1/10th .
I am still running that same converter it has only gained 1-200 rpm stall
I do run a 4.1 gear with 29"street tyre , 28"pro bracket radial when racing .
The car is a dream to drive on the street , idles around @950 . Only know its a big stall if you nail it at low speed in top gear even then not too bad

Tex

Dave , when Lenny called me after receiving the spec sheet that I E-mailed him we talked in depth for about 1/2 hour and I let him decide what was best thru his experience and he told me he was going to set mine at 5200, I didn't take the time to verify it last weekend with so many other things to pay attention to so maybe I can get that done at the Chrysler Power Classic @ National Trails this next weekend and see how close he got it, I know it pulls like a freight train tho.

Ok, I will get Lennys opinion on it as well. thanks guys. some real food.

so, your saying every gear should pull it thru the tq band and not stay at or above it down the track? i can see that working well with a long stroke motor(511).

I think you may find that by shifting the motor 300 to 500 RPM above peak HP RPM in every gear that the car will go faster than shifting at or below peak HP RPM
Do you have the ability to record and playback the EPM from each run? If so try different RPM shift points and look at the time slip and the playback and go from there

No, i dont have the equipment to record that. I just need to know what to tell Lenny for vert set up to get me down the track the quickest. May just leave it up to him.

Lenny will get it right, probably a fairly tight 8" would work the best, maybe 5000-5200 and flash to 5600, if you put that same vert behind your old small block it would probably FB to well over 6K...the thing to remember with converters is it's all relative to the motor/torque they are behind.

Again my only point is with a big block 4.25" stroke the torque is so broad and flat to me it becomes a question of how you want it to feel when you drive on the street. I would personally give up a tenth for a more tractable cruise experience, especially in a nose heavy BB A where TRACTION is going to be the biggest issue. sometimes more grunt (not necessarily Peak torque grunt) is more fun and controllable, and I know even high stall converters can feel "kinda good" but not "great" like truly feeling the motor use all the torque to pull the car from out of the basement. Roll on torque from all over the power curve to me is the most fun part of a big block street car, but I'm spoiled driving a 2400 pound 427 Cobra replica with a manual trans...I like all my street cars to feel as close to that as possible.

When I'm at the Strip I like to drag race but when I'm on the road I like my cars to feel more like a Road Race car, does that make any sense? Probably not.

Lenny built me a 9.5" Converter for a similar motor a few years ago.

Peak TQ was ~5000RPM. The converter stalled at ~4800 behind this motor.

When I hit it with a 250HP shot of nitrous it would flash to 6000RPM.

Yes it does. Makes perfect sense. Cobras are bad ass. Thanks wise.

Ok, thats what i would expect from lenny. May hear from him today.thanks

Try what you have first. You may find it likes it. My 15-1 572 ran very well at 6300 flash that I tried by accident.
Doug

On a street car 511 let's say you have 660 lb/ft of torque peak at 5000, but you also have over 600 lb/ft (90%) of peak at 6200 (equates to 708 hp) but you also have 600 lb/ft....at only 3800 rpm. My whole thing is why waste enough torque (more than a 455 Buick stage 1 makes at peak) just slipping a converter? Why did you build a big WEDGE?

To me it's no fun driving on the highway at say 2900-3000 and you come to a big incline in the road, and instead of the converter (being somewhat closer to peak torque transfer) just grabbing the load like a freight train, it will instead require a lot more throttle (and gas) just to maintain highway speed....because the incline is the temporary equivalent of adding hundreds of pounds to the car. (which is also the easiest way I know to get someone's head around how vehicle weight effects stall speed) .I like broad torque in a light car, it's a lot of FUN. if it costs me a tenth at the track, it was a lot more fun driving to the track and back. if you liken it to a manual the stall slip wasting useable torque is a lot like having to downshift to get up a hill only, not because you don't have plenty of power, but rather more like because your clutch was slipping.

Thanks

Received a call from Lenny yesterday. He didnt sound too impressed with my old dynamic as he put it. Said he will tighten it as much as he can ,but it will still flash to 5400-5600. Best he can do by the sound of it.

I've yet to talk to anyone in the race trans business that ever said anything nice about one of their competitors products. Earlier this week I met the owner and son of a transmission shop that I won't bother to name. In a relatively short conversation before I had to be elsewhere, they managed to bash TCI, ATI, and another company that I can't remember right now. The only other company they mentioned that they didn't talk down about was Dynamic, only because the owner said he thought Sean Wiley was a good guy.

Oh, now I remember. The other shop they bad-mouthed was Lenny at Ultimate. Said something like he's better at marketing converters than building them. I don't get these people.

Interesting statement about bad mouthing other manufactures. My experience with Lenny only was by phone. We talked about whether he could adjust my Turbo Action converter. He was very knowledgeable and mentioned during the course of the conversation what high guality pieces TA converters are.

Lenny has worked om this vert once before for my small block app. He was very pleasant. Maybe he was just busy as the time, don't know. No big deal thou, i'm sure he will do a very nice job.

Actually the ones who bad mouth other companies in the same business as them are the ones who I usually stay away from. It dont impress me when someone has to to badmouth another trying to make themselfs look good. Unless of course if its something that really deserves to be talked down. Ron

Lenny took care of me. Added a billet aluminum stator, rebuilt and balanced $225. I'm happy.

Lenny is who I had build my converter for my new build, 6 passed footbraking and appears to work good, now that I think I found my transbrake issue we are going to give it a try next outing and will know more after that.