Cheap block hugger header fitment
#2265074
03/07/17 07:20 PM
03/07/17 07:20 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406
Michigan
MarkZ
OP
Worthy
|
OP
Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406
Michigan
|
Alright, I'm dropping a 512 low deck stroker into my Fifth Avenue soon here. Big block swaps into M body cars isn't exactly a popular thing, so nobody makes headers that will fit. eBay has lots of cheap Chinese headers for sale and one of them is this set here: Manzo shorty headers: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/11122582787...&rmvSB=true I would more than happily pay for brand-name set, but since I'm uncertain if anything would fit I figured cheapies would fit the bill to at least get the motor in the car. I got these cheaper than what I would be able to get cast manifolds for. The build quality isn't bad at all and it looks like they'll clear the power steering box. So I took them to engine builder's today to check fitment on the Edelbrock heads and the attached photos is what I found. The ports are huge and leave very little sealing surface on the bottoms. The gaskets actually cover the indentations in the heads for the bolts. I got to imagine these would burn through in short order. Ideas guys? I'm thinking I should just send these back.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
|
|
|
Re: Cheap block hugger header fitment
[Re: Dave Hall]
#2265087
03/07/17 07:43 PM
03/07/17 07:43 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,212
Minnesota
peabodyracing
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,212
Minnesota
|
Looking at your photos you already will have a fair amount of mismatch between exhaust port size and header port size. Since the head parts are smaller than the headers that won't hurt you as much as the other way around. I assume the gaskets you show are the ones that came with the headers. I've found the quality of the gaskets that come with no name headers can be iffy.
Might be worth looking at a local auto parts store to see what else is available in name brand gaskets. There are some pretty nice header gaskets out there that'll compensate for a lot of problems. The previous suggestion to use stock gaskets may be a workable solution too.
One final thought if you're so inclined: build up the surface of the header flange with weld and then level it out flat to provide more surface sealing area. I did this on a set of home made headers that wouldn't seal up till I created more 'meat' in that area. Toughest part was taking the time to get the mating surface flat again.
You did buy those right. I'd give them a try. If they don't work out they're good swap meet material.
Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way
|
|
|
Re: Cheap block hugger header fitment
[Re: peabodyracing]
#2266726
03/10/17 01:00 PM
03/10/17 01:00 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406
Michigan
MarkZ
OP
Worthy
|
OP
Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406
Michigan
|
Looking at your photos you already will have a fair amount of mismatch between exhaust port size and header port size. Since the head parts are smaller than the headers that won't hurt you as much as the other way around. I assume the gaskets you show are the ones that came with the headers. I've found the quality of the gaskets that come with no name headers can be iffy.
Might be worth looking at a local auto parts store to see what else is available in name brand gaskets. There are some pretty nice header gaskets out there that'll compensate for a lot of problems. The previous suggestion to use stock gaskets may be a workable solution too.
One final thought if you're so inclined: build up the surface of the header flange with weld and then level it out flat to provide more surface sealing area. I did this on a set of home made headers that wouldn't seal up till I created more 'meat' in that area. Toughest part was taking the time to get the mating surface flat again.
You did buy those right. I'd give them a try. If they don't work out they're good swap meet material. Yeah, the gaskets shown are what came with the headers. I didn't even plan on using them out of concerns about the quality, but it looks like factory style gaskets won't even fit because of the over-sized ports. Mancini's is right down the street from me, so I'll take one of these and check it against different brand header gaskets. As you recommended, I'm probably going to have to build up the sealing surface. My engine builder should be able to mill it flat. I just need to find someone with a tig welder.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
|
|
|
Re: Cheap block hugger header fitment
[Re: Twostick]
#2266728
03/10/17 01:01 PM
03/10/17 01:01 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406
Michigan
MarkZ
OP
Worthy
|
OP
Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406
Michigan
|
Have you tried B-body headers? Small block headers for that platform usually show they fit B-body also.
Kevin I eyeballed it and it didn't look like they would work, but there is a guy here with a 440 powered Diplomat that used them, but he has manual steering. I'm not sure if that would make a difference. I have a friend with a pair of 2" primary B body headers I might ask to try.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
|
|
|
Re: Cheap block hugger header fitment
[Re: Interceptor72]
#2266744
03/10/17 01:17 PM
03/10/17 01:17 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406
Michigan
MarkZ
OP
Worthy
|
OP
Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406
Michigan
|
I have these on my car (because like you, there is nothing out there that's made to fit), and I can confirm that they do NOT seal well at the bottom and between the center two primaries. What heads do you have them on? What gaskets have you been trying? You're the only person that I've been able to find that has tried these headers before. I'm hoping simply building up the sealing surface on the bottom will remedy this.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
|
|
|
Re: Cheap block hugger header fitment
[Re: MarkZ]
#2266760
03/10/17 01:46 PM
03/10/17 01:46 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
racealittle
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
|
I used the large tube A body TTI in an F body. Why would that not work with a M body?
I made my own mounts, rather than buying. The passenger side header can almost fall out if you remove the bolts. Driver side requires the usual tricks to install and remove.
Too many cars, too many parts, too little coin, too little space to work in, too little time left to make it all happen!
Update: down to one ride, still too many parts, a little more jingle in the pocket, gaining space, and it's going to happen this year!
|
|
|
Re: Cheap block hugger header fitment
[Re: racealittle]
#2266887
03/10/17 04:54 PM
03/10/17 04:54 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406
Michigan
MarkZ
OP
Worthy
|
OP
Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406
Michigan
|
I used the large tube A body TTI in an F body. Why would that not work with a M body?
I made my own mounts, rather than buying. The passenger side header can almost fall out if you remove the bolts. Driver side requires the usual tricks to install and remove. We're talking big block, right? Yeah, it would be exactly the same. Are these what you used? http://www.ttiexhaust.com/Category-ClassicHeaders/383440-134/TTi383440-134.htm I'm using the Shumacher conversion spool mounts.
Last edited by MarkM; 03/10/17 06:03 PM.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
|
|
|
Re: Cheap block hugger header fitment
[Re: MarkZ]
#2266993
03/10/17 08:06 PM
03/10/17 08:06 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
racealittle
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
|
I used the large tube A body TTI in an F body. Why would that not work with a M body?
I made my own mounts, rather than buying. The passenger side header can almost fall out if you remove the bolts. Driver side requires the usual tricks to install and remove. We're talking big block, right? Yeah, it would be exactly the same. Are these what you used? http://www.ttiexhaust.com/Category-ClassicHeaders/383440-134/TTi383440-134.htm I'm using the Shumacher conversion spool mounts. Yes those are the ones. For the mounts, I determined the passenger side, on the cross member needed to be deepened about an inch or so, and the driver side the same thing. I found a way to cut and relocate the driver side the mount portion on the K frame. I should have done the same to the passenger side; but wound up pushing out the bushing, reworking the mount to install the bushing backwards. It was trial and error work, welding, cutting, fitting I had the car with a big block for 32 years; the final 8 with the TTI headers. Aftermarket mounts should make the install easier. I had power steering, and lost the power brake booster with a 440 in there.
Last edited by racealittle; 03/10/17 08:08 PM.
Too many cars, too many parts, too little coin, too little space to work in, too little time left to make it all happen!
Update: down to one ride, still too many parts, a little more jingle in the pocket, gaining space, and it's going to happen this year!
|
|
|
|
|
