Re: New COMP CAMS Nitriding wearing off?
[Re: B5496RR]
#2218813
12/22/16 04:30 AM
12/22/16 04:30 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195
Bend,OR USA
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I would call them and ask for a will call tag on the cam to have them look at it now before using it I have one on its way(custom hydraulic flat lifter cam grind nitrided) now for a SB Mopar pump gas stroker motor, if it looks like yours I will have them pick it up and replace it
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: New COMP CAMS Nitriding wearing off?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2218823
12/22/16 05:53 AM
12/22/16 05:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,142 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,142
Melbourne , Australia
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Nitriding isn't a surface treatment as such, but a process that hardens the metals surface to a shallow depth. Not sure what's going on with the surface of your lobes though.
Alan Jones
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Re: New COMP CAMS Nitriding wearing off?
[Re: B5496RR]
#2218905
12/22/16 12:34 PM
12/22/16 12:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,113 Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,113
Byron, NY
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Just a question? Before you came on here and expressed your concerns did you contact Comp about this. If so what did they say? If not why???
'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 '01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list '60 Willys CJ5 '01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison '64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
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Re: New COMP CAMS Nitriding wearing off?
[Re: B5496RR]
#2218968
12/22/16 01:54 PM
12/22/16 01:54 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,990 Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,990
Apollo, PA.
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That looks typical to me. I had a crankshaft offset ground an then had it plasma ion nitride, came back all black, it was a strange type of finish like you said you could effect it by rubbing it but not completely remove it . I had the crankshaft polished on the journals after. If your worried about the stuff on the bearings journals and lobes, you could probably polish with scotchbrite. The stuff on the surface isn't the nitriding, it goes .010-.030 deep.
Last edited by B1MAXX; 12/22/16 01:58 PM.
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Re: New COMP CAMS Nitriding wearing off?
[Re: B1MAXX]
#2219014
12/22/16 02:51 PM
12/22/16 02:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195
Bend,OR USA
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. The stuff on the surface isn't the nitriding, it goes .010-.030 deep. I was told years ago that nitriding (a chemical hardening process)would penetrate down into the parent metal .030 Parkerizing is the process used to make the black coating on most flat tappet cams
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/22/16 02:52 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: New COMP CAMS Nitriding wearing off?
[Re: B5496RR]
#2219033
12/22/16 03:09 PM
12/22/16 03:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Nitriding process:
"The plasma nitriding process began in the 1920's as an alternative to conventional gas nitriding. After World War II the plasma nitriding process received widespread acceptance in Germany, Russia, China and Japan. The process was not introduced into the United States until after 1950 and has only been used as a production process for the past 20-25 years.
As technology progressed so did the plasma nitriding process. Improved controls and, in later years, the microprocessor have allowed engineers to consistently control the metallurgical properties of the nitride layer. This control, shorter cycle times, simplified masking techniques, less product distortion and a consistent reproducible process have lead to an increase in the popularity of the process in recent years.
The nitriding cycle begins by placing the product into the vacuum chamber and evacuating the chamber to a desired vacuum pressure. Upon reaching the desired vacuum, the unit is back-filled with a process gas to begin the preheating cycle. The standard preheating cycle ranges in temperature from 850 to 1050 Fahrenheit. When the preset heating time has elapsed, the product is subjected to an ion bombardment to clean impurities from the surface. The process gas is ionized by a voltage that is applied to the product.
This ionized gas collides with the product removing impurities from the surface and preparing the product for the nitriding process to begin. When the product surface has been cleaned sufficiently, the nitriding cycle begins. A controlled flow of nitrogen, hydrogen and methane are introduced into the chamber and ionized by the voltage applied to the product. The plasma generated by the ionization envelops the surface of the product with a blue-violet glow. The combination of the heat and energy of the plasma cause the gasses to react with nitride forming elements in the steel.
As the process gasses react with the elements in the steel, a wear resistant layer is formed. This layer can consist of a gamma prime Fe4N or an epsilon Fe2-3 N composition depending on the percentage of each gas in the chamber. The choice of the particular composition would depend on the application of the product in the field. In addition to increasing the steel's abrasion-resistance, the nitride layer also improves the fatigue strength and reduces the friction coefficient. The nitriding cycle is continued for 2 to 72 hours until the desired case depth of 0.002" to 0.024" is achieved. The processing time is dependent on the composition of the steel being nitrided and the required case depth. Low alloy steels are generally processed for longer cycle times."
I've been told it takes about 30hrs to do the cams.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: New COMP CAMS Nitriding wearing off?
[Re: GY3]
#2219062
12/22/16 03:50 PM
12/22/16 03:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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I used to use Comp Cams exclusively
Lately, experiences by myself and others have led me to never purchase their products again!
Everything from crappy hydraulic roller lifters to flat tappet lifters that eat themselves to their ridiculous tech advice points to a company going down the tubes rather quickly. I know MANY on the CC wagon but I call Isky direct and go that route w/springs and cams...........Had a CC failure years ago at Pettis on the dyno and freshened it up and went w/a solid Isky ft and all was good........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: New COMP CAMS Nitriding wearing off?
[Re: B5496RR]
#2219152
12/22/16 06:03 PM
12/22/16 06:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
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I don't recall having anything "rubbing off" on the nitrided cams, but because of what the process is I don't think I'd be too alarmed/concerned about it. I guess I don't feel like the nitriding can just "rub off", so I probably would just clean it and run it, but I'll be interested in hearing what they(Comp) say about it and whether or not my actions would have been the right call or not.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: New COMP CAMS Nitriding wearing off?
[Re: B5496RR]
#2219456
12/23/16 07:25 AM
12/23/16 07:25 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
Porter67
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
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Comp has several articles online of there process...
Depending on the speed and makeup of these nitrogen ions, some of them penetrate as far as .010-inches deep into the cam, while others bond themselves into the surface strata. The process creates three separate layers during the process. The deep layer, which provides strength against metal fatigue, is called the diffusion zone. A middle layer, called the compound zone, guards against abrasion and increases strength, while the surface layer affects the initial wear-in behavior of the cam, and gains lubricity from the nitriding process.
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Re: New COMP CAMS Nitriding wearing off?
[Re: B5496RR]
#2219541
12/23/16 12:53 PM
12/23/16 12:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,680 Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,680
Wichita
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I heard back from Comp cams. They couldn't make heads or tails of whether or not the camshaft is okay or not. They suggested that I send it back to them for inspection.
However, they are working a reduced schedule between Christmas and New year's which is understandable. But that means I wouldn't get the camshaft back for at least two weeks if this cam indeed checks out okay. If it's deemed faulty them I'm looking at three weeks for new cam to be ground and Nitrided.
There completely blows my plans for getting the engine back together and in the car during my vacation time over the break.
I would only assume that Comp would simply grind me a new cam simply to keep the customer happy and not have another bad product out in the field.
Comp did state " I'm not sure how it made it past quality control". I replied back with yeah, me either... Thanks Comp!
I gut feeling says the cam is okay, my eyes tell me otherwise... I'd like to say I'm surprised. I'm not.
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Re: New COMP CAMS Nitriding wearing off?
[Re: B5496RR]
#2219571
12/23/16 01:31 PM
12/23/16 01:31 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511 Temperance, MI
68 HEMI GTS
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511
Temperance, MI
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the black finish on my nitrided cam mostly wore off where the lifters ride. i had my valley cover off after a few hundred miles to just take a look at things. the lifters i pulled looked to be spinning ok. i also had a few small scrape marks on the cam where the black finish came off when i assembled the engine. i didn't handle it much so i didn't have any issues rubbing it off. seems to be ok though.
Last edited by 68 HEMI GTS; 12/23/16 01:33 PM.
68 Dart GTS "HEMI" 10.30 @ 131 pump gas street car 3780# 69 Roadrunner 511 six pack 10.92 drive to track street car
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