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Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: Benson]
#2211064
12/10/16 03:06 AM
12/10/16 03:06 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,219
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,219
Someplace you aren't
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Best bang for the buck will be just cleaning it up and running it. Dont go changing rings and bearings. If it turns over freely now, we can postulate it will run ok. In other words, these rings and bearings are seated and should work fine now unless a bearing is spun and your screwed anyway. Sounds like you have a perfect candidate for just bolting on a few things. Compression ratio will suck, but changing pistons is money and you will end up figuring out it has some taper to it and want to bore eventually. Then standard hi comp pistons are garbage to you.
Another member recently tore down and engine and spent some money, on a budget, then had to spend more since you basically cannot just tear into one and piece meal the thing. You might find that thread, i think it was 71adam440 or something like that.
Pick your cam and a good timing set. Then look to the heads, maybe do a valve job or guides. You could find a set of 915 heads sure, spend money on them, then trash them later when you decide on a full rebuild and aluminum heads. That's just cash burned for a small improvement.
If you go the low buck route(many people have done these), plenty of budget becomes available for other parts of the truck. You'll soon find things to spend on. Or buy new rings and bearings now and buy them again for the full rebuild, which could be as soon as something goes awry doing a rering and bearing job.
I want my fair share
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Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: Benson]
#2211089
12/10/16 04:48 AM
12/10/16 04:48 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,228
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,228
Bend,OR USA
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For your deal and budget I would look at using a set of 440 6 pak forged pistons with new rings, bearings and a better camshaft and timing set. You should have the new parts balanced to that crankshaft and balancer so it doesn't shake with the new parts  Make sure and use that original torque converter also as those motors are externally balanced by using weights on the converter and balancer. Good luck, let us know what you decide to do
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/10/16 04:50 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#2211094
12/10/16 05:02 AM
12/10/16 05:02 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
Polarapete
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
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Best bang for the buck will be just cleaning it up and running it. Dont go changing rings and bearings. If it turns over freely now, we can postulate it will run ok. In other words, these rings and bearings are seated and should work fine now unless a bearing is spun and your screwed anyway. Sounds like you have a perfect candidate for just bolting on a few things. Compression ratio will suck, but changing pistons is money and you will end up figuring out it has some taper to it and want to bore eventually. Then standard hi comp pistons are garbage to you.
Another member recently tore down and engine and spent some money, on a budget, then had to spend more since you basically cannot just tear into one and piece meal the thing. You might find that thread, i think it was 71adam440 or something like that.
Pick your cam and a good timing set. Then look to the heads, maybe do a valve job or guides. You could find a set of 915 heads sure, spend money on them, then trash them later when you decide on a full rebuild and aluminum heads. That's just cash burned for a small improvement.
If you go the low buck route(many people have done these), plenty of budget becomes available for other parts of the truck. You'll soon find things to spend on. Or buy new rings and bearings now and buy them again for the full rebuild, which could be as soon as something goes awry doing a rering and bearing job. I found a 1973 440 MH engine and trans on the Tacoma, WA CL for $100.00 and beat 5 other guys to the seller to pick it up. It had been bought from a wrecked MH 20 years earlier and stored at a body shop, covered up and it looks it  . It is sitting in my shop now and when it warms up around here, I will pull the spark plugs, drain the oil and examine it, if it passes I will give it 4 qts of fresh Walmart 10w30 oil and spin over the oil pump with my 1/2" drill motor while I turn the motor over with a breaker bar at least 2 or 3 complete revolution and check a mechanical oil pressure gauge to see where it falls. If it looks good then I will do a compression test while it hangs on the cherry picker (it came assembled with starter, alternator, ThermoQuad, etc.) Parts alone are well worth the $100.00 and it is for a club project rat rod so expectations are not high and the chassis is a model A frame with a T-Bucket body, so it should be fun for all.
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction
1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver.
2008 Honda Element
2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: Benson]
#2211100
12/10/16 05:47 AM
12/10/16 05:47 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
Adam71Charger
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
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Hey somecarguy that was I. I ended up spending over budget because I found some bad bearings, and decided to re ring and re bearing. That was inexpensive, but when I got the bright idea to use an autozone tool to get rid of the ridge at the top of the cylinders, I messed them up good. So, i had to have the block bored, and since I was already shelling out for block work, I got the crank ground and then figured I may as well get new rods and pistons.
Basically I learned that with good used short block, with at the most new rings, bearings, and drill hone, all you need is a pair of sidewinder or 440 source heads, aluminum intake, good carb, cam, possibly new pushrods and lifters, and you can have a 400+ hp engine for about $2000
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Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: Benson]
#2211245
12/10/16 02:46 PM
12/10/16 02:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Don't worry about what it might make for hp.
Just use the appropriate parts for the application and it will make what it makes.
As mentioned, keep the cam duration pretty short.
The 250 heads are a one year only, sort of odd ball deal.
They are essentially open chamber 516 heads with 1.74 exhaust valves.
So, they have the underwhelming 516 intake port.
Not really an issue for this type of build.
A little bowl work and a decent valve job would be worth it IMO, along with machining for posi-seals and setting them up with an appropriate spring.
Look the exhaust seats over good, if they're pounded out pretty wide, for that application, I think hardened exhaust seats would be a wise move.
Probably outside of your budget, but IMO the best way to update that short block would be to change the pistons to some KB quench domes.
It's really the best way to gain the compression and not grossly adversely affect the octane requirement........ Other than flat tops and closed chamber heads.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: Benson]
#2211309
12/10/16 04:21 PM
12/10/16 04:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 4
MONTANA
Benson
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 4
MONTANA
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Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm looking to stay away from the machine shop in this one. The link that kowalski440 posted contains an interesting buildup, sort of what I'm going for. To summarize the article, they used an m1 single plane intake, headers, 850 cfm carbs, 516 heads. Made alot power surprisingly. I'm going to run a dual plane intake, a decent carb (850 seems a little much, not sure if my 440 will run that carb without being super rich), and either a .509 purple cam or the .484 lift can. A good port job on the heads as well to insure good flow (If a set of 915# casting come up, I will snag em, but otherwise it's the 452# or 250# heads I have.) And a set of headers as well.
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Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: Benson]
#2211320
12/10/16 04:35 PM
12/10/16 04:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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I'm looking to stay away from the machine shop in this one. I understand that we're all working w/in a budget, but keep in mind that not doing the proper machining where required isn't a good idea. There's "budget"... and there is "short sighted". Just my  , naturally.
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Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: DrCharles]
#2211334
12/10/16 04:55 PM
12/10/16 04:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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As said I would (highly) reconsider your cam choices. You have a 5000 LB vehicle and you need low RPM torque. Your actual SCR is in the 7's likely. You are already torn down to the bare block & I would rebore & get it in the 9's and you might be able to get some pistons close to what yours are now so no rebalancing needed & HF has a gram scale for that regularly on sale for $9.99 & it was just as accurate as my buddys' high dollar one. or even drop in some std ones if on a real tight budget. Some file fit plasma moly rings in an overhaul kit (bearings/gaskets etc). (you can file fit em with a point file).
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: DrCharles]
#2211336
12/10/16 04:57 PM
12/10/16 04:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,650
Harm City Md.
Dan Halen
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,650
Harm City Md.
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and either a .509 purple cam or the .484 lift can. Remember you have low compression, (I assume) a stock converter, 3.55's and a 5000 lb vehicle. I do not think you'd be happy with the .509. Even the .484 may be too much... I agree, either of these cams will make a pig out of your truck, way too much duration for the application.
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Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: Benson]
#2211343
12/10/16 05:17 PM
12/10/16 05:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506
So. Burlington, Vt.
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For that application, I think you should be looking at something like a Comp 268h or similar.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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They are a old design in the mid 1970s and now outdated 
