Is there any way to get a new vin tag made if a car you want to buy does not have a title nor the dash (someone took the dash) but if the original vin is on the door (71 Road Runner) can you legally put the car back on the road? I looked around in the interior of the hodge podge of parts and rust stacked inside the interior or whats left of it but did not see the dash nor vin plate. Whole dash boar (metal is gone) Worth buying something like this to piece it back together. Most of other parts are there but very rough. Galen doesn't do any of this resto or reproduction of the vin on dash pad I take it as a car could be stolen or rebodied?

Wizard

You need to call the DMV for your state to see what they say is legal.

Appreciate it. State would be PA if anyone has been there done this already. We have one of the toughest DOT programs here.

PA does have a system in place for state issued VINs, but with no title it may be a waste of time.

What's the chance dash and vin are in another body ? Just thinking.... I'd run #'s first thing to make sure there's not a car already licensed using that vin.

I'd buy another dash with VIN and ownership.

Sounds like a parts car

About the best advice to avoid hassles with the DMV/RMV, better off they don't know

Fraud twice.

DMV & insurance fraud if insured under the cars new 'ASSumed' name.

I still wish that Moparts members that encourage fraud could be voted out, permanently.

Let's face the facts that most States make it very difficult to obtain titles, VINs in any shape or form, registrations, etc when dealing with an old long forgotten vehicle(s) missing paperwork or tags, compounded by the morons working at these RMV/DMV's that change the rules and or requirements based on who's tending the service desk/counter that day, and that's if they even have a clue to start with, IMHO if you can circumvent the DMV/RMV that's generally the best plan...so if the OP attaches a long discarded CLEAN/TITLED VIN to an old discarded project car, who really cares, the State makes their money on a new title and registration, a State assigned VIN, or re-VINing along with DMV/RMV/LEO just brings in a bunch of dumbasses who usually have no clue how to proceed DAMHIK

Run from a car that has no title. This one is in bad shape to boot. Finding another dash to swap is even worse. Plenty of cars out there to buy besides this problem.

Yeah, whatever. Let me guess, you were the kid in school that was always squealing on everyone else, right !!!

then, the question comes up what to do with states that are non-title states with vehicles that are of xxx years or older ? when you buy one of these, all you get is a bill of sale, notarized or not, depending on the year and state. what do you do then ? what about states that "lose" all information on vehicles previous to xxx year due to things such as a fire or flood at said state's central storage location ? and lastly, just for fun, a straight across swap of vehicles between legitimate owners with no money changing hands. this scenario can become sticky as well, because the state is money hungry, never mind getting the required fees for transfer of ownership or tags. i have been involved in all three situations, and as dayclona stated, it all depends on the "moron of the day" at the desk or the other end of the phone how these situations get, or can be resolved. in all three situations above, it took lies told by all the owners on both sides to resolve the issues, because the dmv does not know their own rules of the game, or the desk jockey's don't have a clue as to what is legally required despite "extensive training" in their jobs to prevent frauds being perpetrated. it all boils down to people being forced to be criminals despite the fact both parties and vehicles involved are on the up and up, with no intention of fraud or criminality intended. these rules are put into place to prevent phoniness, but in reality for some circumstances, it makes it almost impossible to play by the rules because you are forced to deal with the people involved that are responsible to insure above board ownership is maintained, but in fact, are clueless as to how to do this legitimately.

Does the vin on the door match the stampings on the body? If so, then at least you know that that number is legit, except for engine size and body line. Then go from there. Is there a fender tag? Does the door sticker look original, or new? If everything seem like it is really a RR and the state says it's not stolen, then go from there. Down here I can get a title for an old car without any kind of paper work.

Unless this is a V or R code , I would not even think about buying this car , and even then, you would have to proceed with extreme caution.
The rule of thumb is to never buy a car without a dash VIN . Rule # 2 Is if the car is coming from a state that had titles in that year, and their is no title , you don't buy the car . So right out of the gate we have two huge strikes against this car . Then , if it has a lot of rust or lots of missing parts , assuming this is an N or H code , this is a lose , lose, lose situation , with no chance of a good outcome.
Now if this were something good like an N code curious yellow sunroof 4-speed car with fender tag and buildsheet you "might" go for it , but if we are talking a run of the mill , mundane color , auto, 383 Road Runner with no fendertag , and typical or above typical rust , it just doesn't make sense to drag yourself through the mud and bend over backwards like a
Chinese contortionist to make this happen .

Greg

Another thing to consider , someone may have that dash frame , Vin and all ,
and stuck it in a Satellite Sebring and went down and got a fresh new title . You might find out after spending a couple grand on buying this car, once you start the process of getting a title etc, that the car is already on file , and so now you just have a parts car , which is exactly what it is now .

Greg

Exactly what are you wanting to do with the car?

Here she is fellows. What do I want to do with the car? I want to save her. Its a 4 speed car. Butterscotch looks like. Why not save it. Looks are deceiving. Not in bad shape to the untrained eye, plus I looked it very well and I already restored my 71 automatic 383 Road runner. Yeah, you can get a title for $1100.00 or more thru those 2 companies out there. That's if everything is in order with car and just missing title. Been there done that 1 time 15 yrs ago when you could get them for $350.00 or so. Here of another company here that will do it for $250.00 if everything is in order. Don't know haven't talked to em yet. Just heard this from guy who did it with them. That's all I know for now.

I like everyone's reply's to this thread. Hopefully I can get one by using some of your reply's here of how to do it. Why not try to do the impossible if it can be done and save her to put out to fly again on the road..

Wizard

Here are two scenarios:

a) You have a rotten car but a good dash with VIN and all appropriate paperwork. Restoration requires swapping virtually every piece of metal costing a small fortune in time and material.

b) You have a good car but no dash, VIN, etc. You find a rotten car with dash, VIN, etc and you slap that dash into your car.

What's the difference ?!?!? End result is exactly the same but scenario b) costs less and doesn't take as long. AND ... this happens all the time. Anyone who doesn't think so is just kidding themselves.

I say go ahead and save it. The question now is, what is the cheapest/ easiest way to get a title. Come down here, and get a post office box and apply for a title here if it is not stolen. Is the door tag original?

Kind of funny all this back and forth about this car. Have you (OP) even checked to see if the VIN on the door frame is currently registered to someone............if it is then it's a moot point and it's just a parts car that you or anyone else can find another VIN and re-body this one too like wherever this car's VIN has gone

No, I haven't looked to see if the vin on door is currently registered to someone. How do you do this? Does my state DOT have a way to run the vin for all 50 states or is there some other way to find out?

Are you saying if the vin is registered there is no way to rebody this car with another vin and nothing can be done?

Wizard

I was working off of your first question and how some were going off on how or why you should or shouldn't do this. What would have happened if you could have gotten the door VIN decal made into a VIN tag and went to register it and by some chance you did and then the OTHER original VIN just happens to appear. That is not likely (or is it???)) to happen because I would hope two VIN's couldn't be register.....a little help here AK in PA

Right now it's a parts car in a salvage yard with probably the best bet is a salvage title or a State issued VIN and drive the crap out of it..............kind of like you stole it.

If the VIN tag is in use on another car & you apply for a state issued VIN, then they go after the loser that used another car's VIN on their car.

If that is the case, then 'his' car will be confiscated until it is all sorted out.

If you re-VIN the car, then the same thing could happen to you.

A good read on what can (and did) happen when a loser bought a VIN & title from Ebay & used them on his car at https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post1244228

Something to think about when the usual resident fakers & frauds here encourage others to join them on the dark side.

Come to your senses man! That shell is a mess!....Core support is bent up. Looks like it's sitting on top of a heap. Probably fork lifted up there and the unibody is twisted. Even with a vin tag and clear title that car is questionable. Trust me I've let my Mopar emotions get ahold of me many times but all I can say is STOP and let this pass. 71 RR's are far from rare, keep looking.

let's see. my house burned down, and there is one wall standing and the basement, plus part of the deck became detached and fell away from the structure. do i rebuild "restoring" what's left, or do i just start over with something else, like a new house ? just because that car is a four speed and possibly butterscotch, how could it possibly make any economic sense to restore that thing, never mind the paperwork fiasco ? there are other butterscotch four speed cars out there done you can buy for pennies on the dollar. let's face a couple of facts. #1 : it doesn't appear to be anything especially super rare or a one of one car. and most importantly, #2 : you can't save everything. that is just a fact of life. if this was somehow in your family since new, then sentimental reasons may be worth it restoration wise, but until you get it home and really get a thorough picture of what parts it lacks, plus how bad the shell really is, i can only see a situation where a guys mind is bigger than his stomach. [or however that saying goes] you may have a noble intention, but maybe it's time to just let this one go. or, buy it for parts, sell off what is good and make a few bucks.

Okay, so we don't know what it is if its a 340 or 383 car but no one asked me if I have parts for these cars?? I did not look at the fender tag or find one laying around but going to look some more for it. No one asked me if I know how to do 90% of the work or how to restore a car. The more cars that are saved in our hobby, the better I see it. Once they are gone. They are gone. I never researched how many butterscotch 4 speeds were produced and I will try. Pennies on the dollar I will have to try to find one of those and investigate where these things are also.. It's a matter of opinion of how much you love the hobby and cars. I have been in it for over 30 years. Where people see a major problem and walk away or say its a parts car, I see another opportunity to bring back life to a car that is not in that bad shape and can be saved. How many 4 speed Road Runners were produced? How many Butterscotch? Not looking for super rare car, nor do I care if it is not. Would be nice though.. who knows.. maybe it is?? Problems with a shell don't bother me nor finding the parts for it that I don't have.

Wizard

man,i got crucified,lynched,pitchforked and torched on here for parting a much worse 70 runner and a gtx in the past
the 70 runner was missing the vin and was cut into 2 pieces
when i got it just for some parts.
but that didn't stop the
they just happened to help out 3 of my other cars come back
that were toast and many others that have bought parts off me.
but people just like to complain about
what you want to do with your own property.
i probably have most of the missing dash parts frame and all in my stash
the moral in all of this is
you can't win no matter what you do so,
just do what makes YOU happy and
ignore the background noise..

Don't get bummed out, some of us were just say forget about trying to do anything with this '71 with the original VIN. Buy it, get a salvage title for it and then get a PA State issued VIN plate for it. I still have an old motorcycle with a PA State issued VIN plate and no one ever looks at it as anything less than it is, (one of the best bikes I've ever owned and ridden BTW). And BTW the bike was (salvage titled) purchased and the VIN retag was done in Hersey, PA by a friend's father's m/c dealership, that's right near you right? No brainer if you can get the shell and salvage title GO FOR IT!

Here's what I would do with it but for street (legal use) and cruise nights and then over to Chrysler's at Carlisle in the summers.

MikeR

There is no way to combine paint color & transmission type to come up with a 'how many made' number. Color percentages were tracked for 1971, but it includes all Charger & Coronet based models. Percentages at;

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/imag...ni_Book0003.jpg

Here's one all ready to go.....

https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars/1971/plymouth/roadrunner/100787274

Yes, $28,000. Not pennies on the dollar. But looks worth it must say.

The question was never "should I or shouldn't I ... ?", it was always "how would I ... ?" - all about the VIN !! It sounds to me like the OP is up to the task both mentally and probably physically so opinions on that point should be kept to yourselves. Address the issue at hand - how to legally get that car back on the road. And while there are some who think re-tagging it is a crime, keep in mind that it wasn't anything in particular until the dash was installed at the plant. It still isn't anything in particular until a dash is installed !

Personally I can't imagine why anyone would care how this thing gets re-tagged as long as nothing used in the process is stolen. If the original VIN is available on the door, check that it was legally scrapped. And when another dash and VIN is obtained, check that it can legally be put back on the road. Done deal !! A body is just a body - until the hemi is dropped in and the dash is installed. Then and only then is it a "hemi car".

10-4 on that.

How about the next owner, would he care? Until you buy a [censored] car and it gets exposed while you own it with no prior knowledge. Then what, does your insurance cover the loss on a rebody? Oh yeah, they will put a state issued VIN on it for you, that will help the resale value.

"Legally scrapped". What the heck does that mean? Is there some agency gonna associate that term to a VIN?

Are we citizens to go tell Motor vehicle dept when a car gets parted out?

Do you want to buy an unknown to you rebody next week?

Go look at the roadrunner nest form, it's all about 71 -71 Plymouth B bodies. As I said before, if it's not stolen and can be made legal, go for it.

To track it down and do it legally without "obtaining another dash and VIN" is an admirable goal. I am all for it, and I wish you luck.

What Stanton is spelling out is not legal or admirable, it is fraud.

Well yes, as a matter of fact there is. They're called insurance companies and they report to the DMV. Case in point ... any vehicle that was claimed as lost in any of the recent hurricane floods cannot be legally put back on the road. The cars are sold as "salvage", noted as flood damage, and the VINs are flagged.

Likewise, many salvage yards also submit the VINs of vehicles they're dismantling.

But you seem to be missing the whole point. The point is it can be done. Whether its illegal or not is questionable ... SHOW ME where it says you can't put a dash and VIN from one body into another and then I'll be convinced.

In the mean time, there's absolutely no way you'll convince me that changing 90% of the metal on a rotten car is any different that putting a dash in a decent shell. Take the rad support, trunk gutter section, torque boxes and dash out of a rotten Hemi Road Runner and swap them into a good '68 Belvedere shell and you have a '68 Hemi Road Runner PERIOD.

It is called VIN tampering. Moving a VIN from one car to another is VIN tampering.

Did you read the thread at the link I posted above?

if i wanted one of these, i would go this route instead of the shell first posted without a vin tag. only MY opinion, and as i have zero knowledge on what one of these are worth, this may be a real bargain, or not. and as one who has to pinch pennies, i realize the importance of doing most, if not all the work yourself. also, i have got over 50 years of playing with these four tire creatures, and in that time, i have seen and observed many things. if you have all the parts, have the time necessary, and the shell isn't twisted up more than what is visible, go for it. it's your parts, time and money. but ultimately, it comes back to the vin tag. from 1968-1972 i worked for a body shop [in pa.] that specialized in rebuilding totals. there was a constant presence of DMV cops to oversee the halves of different vehicles joined together to make one, and also to insure this was done legally. at that time, these were just "cars", but above all, EVERY ONE of those vehicles had titles and matching vin tags. [this was before it was mandatory to start with a salvage title] we didn't have to resort to trying to source probably the most important piece of the car. whatever you decide to do, enjoy your endeavor.

I don't know what the big issue is going the DMV route. If your only concern is to take a non legal parts car and turn it into a legal restored car, then just go to the DMV and follow the proper process of getting a legal state issued VIN. For some reason we in the Mopar community look down on that and we shouldn't. I would rather know up front it has a state issued vin then buy a car and later find out it was vin swapped ect and a host of other legal questions could follow the car. There is a fine line when bringing a car back. However this one already looks like it has been salvaged. So the actual vin to that car could have already been noted as Salvaged in the system, vin and dash sold off to someone else who could have incorrectly used and titled it on their fake ect ect. So even if you had the correct dash and vin you still might have problems following you. Just buy the junk yard car and get a proper stated issued vin and no worries. As a community we need to stop looking down on people doing it the right way until it becomes commonly accepted practice.

Surprising that the door is even still with the car, having been removed for whatever reason. I see seats that appear that they could be original. I would look for remnants of a build sheet. I notice that the frame is cut away where the torque tube frame bracket was. It doesn't appear evident of what caused this car's demise. It's not wadded up anywhere. It looks to have been just slowly picked apart of its valuable pieces. Was the dash removed for it's rallye cluster…… it's reverse light and proper hole…… or it's VIN? It would be interesting to know! I'm guessing if someone had parted the car for it's VIN. It would have had the radiator support and the cowl top piece removed as well as the door taken or it's VIN sticker destroyed.
Just my

As many folks know, lots of cars got parted in the 80's for not to drastic problems.

Yes! They were green or the had AC. Either of those were the kiss of death

I agree, But If that were true why are there so many green A/C cars still around? LOL

The door has the correct VIN for a roadrunner as I have confirmed it is legit road runner 383 4bbl built in Windsor Canada plant. Its a medium build also. I looked around again for the build sheet and vin but did not find dash nor vin. Looked under bottom seat for build sheet but not back seat. will have to do that.

Wizard

Chances are the dash was removed for it's pad, or instrument cluster, or both, or someone needed a VIN for their "project", personally I wouldn't even pursue the "missing" VIN, as it may open up a can of worms for you, or someone else, as mentioned previously, just locate a "clean" VIN/title attach and be done with it, it's just a machine that needs a new identity...

I had a 71 Windsor RR a while back that I parted out. As crazy as it may sound, I found a pristine BS in an unusual location by accident. It was a front bench seat car and I was removing the headrests as they were mint. The bench was beyond rotted. Anyway, I had to dismantle the rear flip down part of the bench seat to remove the headrests. Well, sandwiched in between the foam in the inner guts of the seat back, there lay the BS like the day it was left there.

The bigger can of worms is if / when he gets busted for VIN swapping.

Thousands spent on getting it back on the road & then it could be confiscated at any moment?

That would be idiotic.

Stay legal by applying for a state assigned VIN.

If the dash VIN was used on then I hope that guy loses HIS car instead. If the tag was stolen, it could possibly be returned to this car if found on another car.

That would come out as part of the state issued VIN process.

[/quote]Chances are the dash was removed for it's pad, or instrument cluster, or both, or someone needed a VIN for their "project", personally I wouldn't even pursue the "missing" VIN, as it may open up a can of worms for you, or someone else, as mentioned previously, just locate a "clean" VIN/title attach and be done with it, it's just a machine that needs a new identity... [/quote]

Only one problem: LEGAL

When this car is sold and the prospective buyer looks at the body stampings and they do not match it the new vin you installed.

Then what?

I don't know how some of you guys sleep at night worrying about this stuff. I suppose if you guys had your way we'd never be allowed to change the color of a car because it wouldn't match the fender tag !!

Like Dayclona says ... "it's just a machine that needs a new identity".

My friend has an original '68 hemi RR that sat outdoors since it was 2 years old. The thing is ROTTEN and needs virtually every piece of metal changed. The body stampings are going to vanish. So tell me, then what?

This is the way this type of threads usually go.

The 'do it legal types' offer advice that will keep the person out of legal trouble.

vs.

The 'just commit a felony or two types' who feel it is OK because they do it, & the more people that follow their lead then the more 'acceptable' it will become.

I still wish there was a clause in the Moparts Rule Book saying that those encouraging breaking the law could be expelled for once & for all.

your friend does NOT have a '68 HEMI Road Runner - the car he claims to own is DEAD & GONE - simple, end of story

if all is A-OK, care to share the VIN?

Stanton, I thought about what you type on moparts and where you live, and it's all coming clear.

The opportunity to paint the dash frames out of the car is always there when the dash swap happens during the re-numbering process on the rust buckets up In the great white rust belt.

Chances are the dash was removed for it's pad, or instrument cluster, or both, or someone needed a VIN for their "project", personally I wouldn't even pursue the "missing" VIN, as it may open up a can of worms for you, or someone else, as mentioned previously, just locate a "clean" VIN/title attach and be done with it, it's just a machine that needs a new identity... [/quote]

Only one problem: LEGAL

When this car is sold and the prospective buyer looks at the body stampings and they do not match it the new vin you installed.

Then what? [/quote]



Be the same case if you used "donor" parts from several parts cars like the cowl, radiator support, trunk rails/gutters that might have partial VIN numbers on them from other vehicles, or what if repro, or NOS components were used that had no numbers? either case most would either remove or add the "appropriate" numbers needed to match the VIN used, whether the VIN was original or added to the chassis

Only one problem: LEGAL

When this car is sold and the prospective buyer looks at the body stampings and they do not match it the new vin you installed.

Then what? [/quote]



Be the same case if you used "donor" parts from several parts cars like the cowl, radiator support, trunk rails/gutters that might have partial VIN numbers on them from other vehicles, or what if repro, or NOS components were used that had no numbers? either case most would either remove or add the "appropriate" numbers needed to match the VIN used, whether the VIN was original or added to the chassis [/quote]


Do not use 'If you' for people who choose to not follow the illegal path that you constantly try to lead others down.

They know better that to get trapped on that path.

The law does not deal with 'ifs', only facts. The fact is that VIN swaps & VIN tampering is a felony.

Choose that path for yourself as you have evidently chosen to, but do not encourage others to do so.

Yes agreed the Road Runner is DEAD. When the stampings disappear the car is GONE. They weren't all meant to survive. You said the magic word "original". After you commit a felony and re body it its not the "original Hemi car anymore.

Yes What Is the VIN?? Post It.

"Rolling back" an Odometer is a felony also, how many restorers, or instrument re-builders do this?...plenty, accepted practice, just like reboding, reVINing, restamping, etc, etc

When I tell the judge "Well everyone else was speeding" it never works

Barry,
I would be curious to know actual numbers of those that were busted,supposedly busted or someone you actually know for vin swap on a vehicle such as this,not those that make a living vin tampering on late model cars, I would guess the numbers aren't very high.

I think he's only been able to muster perhaps 3 cases over the decades, no one went to jail, no cars completely confiscated, etc, etc, etc, ...LEO's are only interested in "real" cases of mass fraud, large chop shops turning out high end cars for profit, not some enthusiast in his garage rebuilding/reboding some rusty old relic

The questions above are baloney. If it happens one time it is too many.
It all comes down to this 2 part question.

1) Would you like to unknowingly buy a car that was rebodied?
2) When you found out about it what would you do?


How about all you folks who believe in this, why don't you rebody using numbers from avacado green or brown 318 cars?

Hey cretin, who yo all callin a liberal, my vote went in the win column, and I am extatic about the winner!!!! think of this on your next sleepless night, I eat and sleep so darn good you wouldn't believe it. Your ways do not make me feel bad about who I am.

I find humor in how your side turns to insulting others when your illegal actions cannot be justified any other way.

PS, look up cretin on urban dictionary.com, I saw your photo there.

1: I'd have ZERO issues with buying a "clean/rust free" rebodied vehicle, much better than buying a vehicle that was cobbled together with an assortment of donor vehicles, "Frankenstiened" welds/patches/repairs, etc, etc trying to maintain it's "originality" or "numbers" worthiness...
2: After finding said vehicle was "rebodied", I'd still sleep the same at night without any worries, as long as the vehicled looked and performed as I desired, a "rebodied" vehicle goes down the road like another vehicle...
3: Any VIN that is "clean" and title-able is fair game for use, 318, /6, etc, etc

Presentation, Presentation,Presentation, I once used that line in court where I freely admitted to "speeding", only I cited the State's Driving Handbook where "One must maintain vehicle speed in traffic, matching that of other vehicles, regardless of the posted speed limit, so as not to impede traffic flow" followed with the Officer singled me out because I was driving a "high profile" vintage musclecar...charges and case were dismissed, with only a $20 "court fee" charged

Well done! I've had more than my fair share of court victories, but I have never tried that approach. Maybe next time.

Hey Wizard doesn't look like anyone answered your question. There is someone who remakes VIN tags but they require body numbers & title as well as owner verification. The number was posted here in a thread a good while back. I have not been able to find it yet, but I'll keep looking. GTS

If you are talking about the faker I think you are, he is the same guy that made the counterfeit Hemi VIN tag for a 383 car according to the court case record & he admitted to it.

Great guy to avoid!

Until he verifies that the original missing VIN tag is not on another car currently what the heck is the difference if he can get one made or not? He still hasn't done the research. So forget the ORIGINAL VIN and or documentation, man up and go get a State issued salvage VIN, repair or restore it and drive it. Seems to me if the OP doesn't want to do the research on the possible current registration of the original VIN then maybe he doesn't want the car for what it is; a salvage vehicle without an original VIN, title or documentation?

If you want a missing VIN tag made, you'll need a title/registration, fender tag, buildsheet, and any other paperwork that www.datatags.com may require to "consider" the feasibility of making a VIN tag

let's face it the car's a plain jane RR, either affix a "clean" RR/SAT/GTX VIN tag to a dash and be done with it, remove/restamp the cowl/rad support #'s and get on with the rebuild, no trauma, no drama dealing with RMV/DMV/LEO, all the DMV/RMV/ sees is the paperwork, as long as all your t's are crossed and your i's dotted, and they can rubber stamp you out the door after deleting some coin from your wallet, everyone's happy

I saw something like this who makes them.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone in this thread, just trying to answer the original question.

You probably won't get the answer you are looking for here !!

I answered that 2 posts up from yours, the original question was where to have a VIN tag made?... here at www.datatags.com

Although it's not "advertised", repro VIN tags are made there, you just need to have the required documentation to possibly acquire one thru this channel, it's much easier to just find a "clean" titled VIN from a Sat/RR/GTX and attach it to a dash, and give this project a new identity rather than hunt down the "missing" VIN thru the RMV/DMV/LEO, or applying for a State VIN and the hassles that will surely ensue


The remainder of the question involved no title, the OP could register the car in Vermont, you can do it on line, residency is not required, you need proof of Insurance, Grundy is good for this, buy a cheap policy, pay the registration on line, you'll be sent a registration, and a set of plates,....a short grace period of several months, then apply for a title in your State using the Vermont Registration...again it's much easier to just procure a "clean" VIN from a "donor" and title/reg that instead, unless one enjoys the DMV/RMV "Shell game"?

I know. Thanks!

Having just registration will not help you in CA

There's still a handful of States that are not title States, plus some States started applying title requirements just a few years ago, I know that if I bring in a non titled State vehicle into Massachusetts, I just need the last registration and a bill of sale to title/reg. it in Mass

I know California is a "Nation" all it's own in regards to red tape bureaucracy, what's the current stats for registering vintage iron from in State, and out of State, along with the emission BS?

Mike

Maybe this car was a Satellite with a Road Runner driver side door replaced...

Odds are, the dash is on a liscenced car. And they used the title, driveline, and hood from it.

I bought some parts off a guy about five years ago, and noticed a 71 Runner under a cover. Nice car, a plum crazy car that had nice options that matched fender tag, along with color and interior, and a RM23 VIN on the tag, but didn't match the RM23 VIN on the dash. He bought the car at Carlisle ten years prior.

The Ford guys have been getting legit 1965/66 titles for new kit Cobras for years... they thought it adds value to have an early title. Well, cheaper to insure and/or get an antique or classic tag for it to avoid annual inspections and emission tests. Here in PA at least. I know a guy who did, using the VIN on his ERA chassis, and ended with a legit titled1965 car!

Generally when you build a "kit car" or "replica", a donor vehicle is used and rebodied, so you use the donor's "identity" to title, register, insure the vehicle...

However in cases where the vehicle is a custom built tubular chassis/uni-body, or no donor vehicle is used, most States allow the vehicle to be titled as the year of production it represents, a State issued VIN is often applied, unless the vehicle is supplied with an MSO#/mfg.VIN which is usually the case with "turnkey" replicas

Mike,

I know this all too well. As I have a car from one of these States. I've tried my DMV three times and every time it's a new excuse. The car is from a State that does not Title cars older than 1975. I have an email from their DMV stating this and the CA DMV should know this ..... yet I now need produce a letter from them on State Letterhead that says this!

The sad thing is that I could cheat. I could go into DMV and say "I lost the title to my car and I never non-op'd it and I'm a car collector so I don't owe back fees and here is my CHP VIN verification, so can I have a title please. " ... and they will issue me a title for $10. That's not the right thing to do, but it will worked. I'd rather do the right thing. I've tried to point out the hypocrisy to DMV but it falls on deaf ears.

Chris

No, the car is definitely a road runner as confirmed by the matching paint on both doors are same as on the body of the car laying near it and confirmed the VIN on the door is a road runner.

Wizard

Thanks for the input Chris, agreed often times the DMV/RMV is fraught with so much confusion on THEIR END, that circumventing their policies/paperwork in any way shape or form is often the only choice left for an individual that has little to no paperwork/documentation/tags/etc for a vehicle

Mike

It's the remains of a Road Runner, but I believe the Title and VIN are being used on another body already. Probably along with the drivetrain... unfortunately, we can't have two of the same VIN out there running around. Need to find out if that VIN is registered and out there somewhere.

I wouldn't even consider registering with the original VIN. What if the guy who has it has both the VIN and the paperwork but hasn't registered it yet, then some time down the road he does. Now you're in deep do-do. Just find another dash/VIN/paperwork. As for the door #s, doors got damaged, rotted, etc and swapped all the time !!

Agreed, I stated this earlier, it's just a "plain jane" RR, stick a "clean" titled VIN on her and start the resto, just be sure to remove/restamp the previous numbers


now all that's needed...

That horse is not drinking the water supplied here.

Evidently it is the other end of the horse giving very bad legal advice.

Here is one that belonged to a friend of mine 25+ yrs ago, BS27R0B.He sold it to another of my friends who also sold it about 5 yrs later,it started as BH27G0B,all three owners knew the history,paid decent money when bought and all made money when sold,nothing hidden from any one and current owner is quite happy with the car. ( and nobody went to court !! )

If I was to post a picture of a car could you tell me the history on it ?

You mean that door that is LAYING IN THAT PILE of parts ?

Does the number on that STICKER that can be reproduced match the partial numbers on the body ??

also how do you know it was a 4 speed car without the original fender tag or broadcast sheet ? the same hole in the floor was used with a 3 speed ???

Oh so you know this because it has matching paint ??? You said paint right ???

Maybe he has a crystal ball ?

My thought John.

You thinking what I'm thinking?, the entire car, the surroundings, the door with a "possible" repro sticker, matching faux paint, carefully and strategically laid to rest as it someone carelessly had parted it out? is it just a ruse? staged? to fool/convince others into thinking he has whole heartily located the long lost mythical holy grail of medium build 383 4 bbl/4spd Road Runners long lost to car enthusiast and the collector car market for decades has finally been found? and in Ebay saleable condition? just say it isn't so, surely you jest?...Some of you guys just crack me up...lol!

Nice ride!, a better more desirable vehicle was saved with this rebody, chances/hopefully it was a "clean-rust free" donor? which actually makes for the ultimate restoration, you get "factory original sheetmetal", "factory welds", "assembly line correctness", "assembly line nuisances unique to the actual production year", all those things restorers strive to reproduce when cobbling a busted/rust bucket back together with used/NOS/repro sheetmetal/parts and improper assembly/welds trying to "restore" a vehicle back to "original", not to mention the labor savings usually associated with using a donor vehicle and the fact the vehicle hasn't been splayed open down to the bare bones to "reconstruct" it,...the "Mopar collective" has been, and always will be, the last to accept the changes in the hobby regarding re-bodies/VIN swaps, etc

Does this the one have the original body numbers & counterfeit VIN tag?

Well I just took about an hour to read all these post, thanks for killing time on a cold dreary day. I guess I'll go back to work now. Worse then women at the bingo hall.

People win at Bingo fairly often.

With VIN & insurance frauds & fakers in the hobby, we all lose.

The one bright side is that the Moparts resident fakers & frauds identify themselves over & over for all the public to see.

I was wondering when John was going to chime in to stir the pot!

LOL !!!



How do you make a little old lady say "f**k" ?
Have another one yell "Bingo" !

Both vin and fender tag are original RO.

The ones that partake/endorse in VIN swaps/reboding openly have nothing to hide, and have acknowledged that this segment of the hobby exists, and always will...

What I have found surprising(not really) over the decades are the quiet ones that build, possess, buy and sell VIN swapped/rebodied vehicles over the years and do it knowingly, these are often individuals who will publicly denounce this practice (I see/know many of them here on Moparts and other forums waving the phony righteous banner), yet in a two face fashion, partake in it, I've met many renowned individuals in the hobby often endeared to the masses for saving/restoring a vehicle back to it's "originality", even one "registry" owner who proudly boast(behind closed doors) of their rebodied/VIN swapped vehicle(s) in their collection, or individuals who have shown me "enveloped" collections of VIN tags/fender tags/buildsheets of long lost vehicles, or actual vehicles too far gone, that they hope to shortly resurrect via a rebody/VIN swap and add to their collection, or resale at auction, National event, or Ebay, etc, etc...

IMHO the only things that are lost in this aspect of the hobby, are the vehicles, esp of prominence that are not resurrected via VIN swapping/reboding to see the light of day once again because of some gray misinterpretations of already vague laws, or perhaps crusades by self-anointed registry watchdogs to black list such vehicles, which in the end game have no real effect or impact, just another hurdle to overcome

Well said !!

Reading this thread is like watching "Groundhog Day". Basically the same thing over and over again. In I guess the close to the 20 years I have been on Moparts I've never read where a guy has changed his mind and took the other side of this arguement.

As for this RR in this question, I don't even see why you'd consider doing a resto on a car like that, not a cheap car to restore and there are much better examples available that really aren't a lot of money. Why you'd want to buy a car needing that much work and having hair on it is beyond me. Not smart.

For the record I run a "Registry" and have no rebodied car(s) in my collection.

Dave

So, Dave, you're well aware of the rotten 68 hemi RR that sat for years in Paris. What do you honestly think the best route for that POS is ?!?!

My comment above wasn't about the Paris Hemi Road Runner.

But since you asked its not really my call. I am sure there are talented sheetmetal guys out there who could bring that car back but I what does the best 1968 Hemi RR GG1 with a bench seat and a column shifter go for? Is that the car you always wanted? I like it but it wouldn't be my first choice.

If I got it for what the new owner paid, I think I would get leave it as it is. I would think about selling the Hemi and putting one of those mock up blocks in it and dress the top end up like it was a complete engine. Then just display the car like a piece of art. That would cool to me. And yes I am serious.

If I didn't do that I would sell it like it was and get something else I liked with the money.

As one of my friends is always reminding me of goes something like this...."Dave there are always going to be more cool cars out there to buy....why worry about that one".

He is right, on any given day I can find a car that I would like to buy.

Anyway that is my opinion, your opinion may vary.

Dave

All Mopars should be saved no matter the condition nor options car was born with unless its completely unrepairable/twisted in half by a wreck or some other circumstance. Once their gone their gone.

Wizard

Oh now that's why we see so many 4-door, triple green Mopars being saved?

If to you it is only about the saving of the car why are you making such a big deal about the original VIN? Go get the salvage title and State issued VIN tag and be done with it and save that Mopar? Or do as some have suggested go get an original VIN plate and re-tag it, but get one from a triple GREEN, 4-door, /6 just to make your point that you're doing it only to save a Mopar and not for any other reason.

BTW: Does anyone know the real reason for the door frame label with the VIN on it?

Wonder if someone pulled the VIN tag off of this one and re-bodied it?

I think it would buff out nicely with a little work and the next owner would never know.

I respectively disagree. Some special Mopars maybe save but not all and this particular car has too many strikes against it. There are plenty of realistically restorable and finished cars to go around. Collectively Mopars are not that rare and as we age, there may be more cars around than new owners who want the responsibility and expense of ownership. So it is of my opinion that we don't have to save them all and this is from me, a die hard Mopar guy that has more passion about them than most.