I dont race alot but my brother does and he footbrakes in NSS and of course I footbrake when I race. To me electronics definetly help you to win by helping the car be more consisdent and cut good lights. But I agree it still takes the driver to do his or her job. I know when I line up against the other car I really dont care if they have electronics or not as I feel even with me footbraking that if I cut a good light and my car runs the number I have a good chance of winning. Thats the main thing I worry about and not if the other car has electronics. I feel electronics do help but if I can do a good driving job I still have a good chance of winning in a bracket race. And of course I am talking using a full tree and not the pro tree as on a pro tree I feel electronics help alot. Ron

Index racing is not heads up. In a heads up race, according to NHRA, "both cars leave the starting line at the same time, and the first to cross the finish line wins. Top Fuel, Funny Car, Pro Stock, Pro Stock Motorcycle, Top Alcohol Dragster, and Top Alcohol Funny Car race heads-up."

Further, they say "In Handicap racing, the object of the game is to predict how many seconds it will take your car to get to the finish line, then try to run as close to that number as possible without going quicker, or "breaking out." The driver who comes closest is the winner. Handicap racing allows cars of different speeds to race one other because the slower car gets a head start. In some categories, the driver chooses his or her own handicap, or dial-in/dial-under. These are Super Stock, Stock, E.T. bracket, and Jr. Dragster classes. In other categories, the class handicap is predetermined and may not be changed. These classes are Comp, Super Comp, Super Gas, and Super Street. In Super Comp, Super Gas, and Super Street, breakout rules apply."

http://www.nhra.com/streetlegal/dragracing101.aspx

Joel, that's the NHRA Kindergarten explanation, the fact they lumped Comp in with the Super classes throws away any shred of validity that statement may have had.



Now, let's try to work through all of Monte's posts on this thread. Is he asking baiting, rhetorical questions? He denied that accusation, so I'll take it at face value that that he wants an answer to each time he used a question mark.

First, the whole "You cut a better light and run the number, you win doesn't matter what they do" statement. Another kindergarten, "Let me dumb this down" explanation that while technically irrefutable, doesn't even begin to explain the strategy of bracket or index racing.

So, apparently, since I'm not being baited...I'll break this down into smaller bites.

"Cut A Better Light"
Sounds simple enough, but for your light to be "better" than your opponent, we must take into account this simple fact: "What is The opponents light?" Since this plays prominently into Monte's equation for winning, this means we can completely dismiss the part of his statement which says: "It Doesn't Matter What They Do"!! Sorry Monte, it absolutely matters!

If you can consistently cut .020-.040 lights foot braking, and your opponents in the Sportsman Class are throwing .080-.120 lights at you, you're a big deal, and might win a track championship! If you take those same lights and go big bucks racing against pipe racks with electronics that can consistently go .005-.015 you are going to donate your entry fee and your buy back money.

Another part of the equation is the red light penalty, it's not like you just go up there and shoot for .005 lights every time, because the red light ends your race. Many times a racer will just try harder to avoid the red than to kill the tree, figuring they can race the stripe even if they give up a little on the tree.

Monte asked, "Do the electronics turn the button loose for you?"

Yes! Absolutely YES! That is the delay box's main function. As I stated earlier, electronics make an average racer a good racer, I know this to be fact because I'm an average racer (If you looked at my stats over the last twenty years, that probably being kind). Lucky for me, drag racing is like sex: you don't have to be good at it to enjoy doing it.

My delay box has a practice tree function. When I'm three sets of cars back or so from racing, I take 3-5 hits on the practice tree and record those numbers, then compare them with the earlier pre-run hits from my time runs or earlier elimination runs. This tells me, the great crew chief exactly where me, the crappy driver is mentally, emotionally, biologically, and I can adjust the delay box to accurately PREDICT whether he is going to be slow or fast on reacting to the tree.
EXAMPLES
I found that my jumpy, emotionally charged driver was almost always .020 quicker on the tree in first rounds of divisional or National events, so once the crew chief started adding that much to the delay in those situations, the red lights went away.
Come around the corner and realize the sun is making it difficult to see the tree? You can pull delay out between the burnout box and the tree. What are you going to do in a no-box car? Take a bump, up the launch rpm? No way that can be as accurate.
Another trick the crew chief learned was this: If the driver directly in front of my driver went red, my stupid driver gets tentative on the tree, and is late. So, if I immediately throw .005 extra in the delay box and say "There, that's your red light protection", it would calm him down and he could hit the tree as previously predicted.

I've got so much more to write on this subject, but I've got to go to work...I'll leave you with this:

If you like Monte's "Cut a better light and run the number" statement, here's one about electronics racing, "If the crew chief puts the right numbers in the delay box and throttle stop, every run will be a perfect pass".

Delay boxes were invented because the average human is QUICKER than .400. The numbers you get reacting to the practice tree function on your delay box tell you NOTHING about how you might react to the tree. All that you are looking for is consistency. The reasoning for this is that when you are inside the car the box display will always be different depending on the light. Do delay boxes and throttle timers make you a better racer? Absolutely NOT! An auto shifter will 9 times out of 10 make the car more consistent but that's the extent of electronics making things "better". There are different classes for anyone who doesn't want to use electronics in their car. I have a good friend who has a "D" Gas Ford that races in Super Street with NO electronics and does very well. He loves the heritage series and does very well at that and also races Pro at Famoso. There are a bunch of Pro (no box, no throttle timer) guys from Sonoma that do very well in Super Street as well. There are a bunch of guys from Sacramento that double in Pro and Super Pro with NO electronics that also do very well.
What I've learned from this thread is that there are dozens of different ways that we are able to race. I appreciate and enjoy all of it. Bracket racing is the most affordable and safe fun you can have beating the crap out of your car whether it be driver or dedicated race car. NHRA Divisional or National racing takes a LOT more money. There are guys with very low budget operations that do very well there too. Drag racing is always cut a better light and run the number for all of us. Even the pros have to have some idea of a number that they are trying to run to get the win, lane choice, etc...
So Monte is right, cut a light, run the number is the name of the game. I'm just happier than all hell that there are a number of different ways that I can choose to compete on dragstrips all over this bada$$ country of ours.

The rules of racing have a lot of grey areas that they leave untouched. I don't enter these areas as winning isn't that important to me but stand at the starting line and listen, and I mean listen to cars leaving the starting line. There are ways to modify ignitions to act as traction control, slew boxes, and I'm sure everyone has heard about "the dirty dozen". I know I have as I raced against some of them. Don't be blind and think cheating isn't going on.

Much to my disappointment, I SUCKED trying to foot-break a Pro Tree. Didn't take long to figure out that I'd need a trans brake to have any chance on a Pro Tree. It was probably a .500, too, so a .400 would be hopeless.

Billy, NHRA's "kindergarten" explanation has been common knowledge for me (and apparently a bunch of other racers) ever since I can remember, over 40 years. But of course we all know that meanings of terms change among various groups and in different parts of the country over time. So my question for you is: If in your world a race where you can lose by going too fast is still a heads up race, what term do you use for a race where the racers get a green at the same time and the 1st one to the finish line wins?

Heads up is a term that came about when cars are leaving on the same bulb. Leave and "heads up" look to see who moved first. To me and to a lot of guys I know, if the starting line is the same it's "heads up".

Billy.........how can you say that? YOU the driver, let the button go too early, even with a delay box......it's RED. YOU the driver let the button go too late, well you are late. The box only releases the trans brake when YOU tell it to, by the numbers YOU put in it. So NO, the box absolutely does NOT turn the button loose. Yes, it turns the brake loose after the time YOU told the box to hold it after YOU drop the button.

And why would you even care what the other guys light is? As I stated, if you cut the best light and run closer, you win. So your goal is to be the best you can, not just better then the other guy.

And a footbrake class is a footbrake class. A "no box" class is usually just that, but trans brakes are allowed. Can you be "better" on the tree with a brake?.....usually, but it sure doesn't make you automatic. Just like a delay box doesn't make you an automatic 00 machine. Footbrake, box, no box, whatever, it's still all about YOU. Get it where you fit in. You want to footbrake in a box or no box class that's your option of course

You are also picking nits about the difference in a heads up "race" and a heads up "start". They are not the same. A heads up race is equal start, first to finish wins. Index classes are heads up "start" but NOT a heads up "race"

Your comment about crew chief putting right numbers in delay box, weather, throttle stop etc and every run will be perfect?........really? What if you the driver stage 3" too deep? Now you are red, not to mention if you the driver "miss" the bulb, you are late. It's all still about the driver, not the gizmos

Never been my interpretation of the phrase. It's always meant starting at the same time, no breakout, first to cross the finish line wins. Maybe it's just me, but I don't consider an index race with a breakout as grounds for losing as "heads up". But maybe I'm just too old to understand...

I'm working on the old part so maybe that's why I don't get it either.

NHRA made the indexes so that everyone could compete. It's logical and right. RACERS figured out all the ways to best approach the new formats and developed what they thought would help them compete better. The first "throttle stops" were no more than a plate under the carb. The heritage series guys, 7.60, 8.60, 9.60, still use those plates but they are externally adjustable and manually set.
If you take a Super Comp dragster and hit a .4 tree with no delay box, you are going to go red every time. When the trans break came about, again by RACERS, they found this out the hard way and hence the delay box. That's why Competition Elim. is so bada$$, Think about trying to cut a green light off the bottom bulb in those featherweight cars.
The governing authorities really didn't make things like they are, the RACERS did. I understand the heads up as being no breakout, I get it. I just know where the term came from and that is all I'm referring to here.
Again, I LOVE this sport and am so grateful that there are so many different options for anyone who likes to compete.

I've race NHRA stockers, SS/T and S/G as well as Pro and Super Pro ET cars as well as raced on the street heads up years ago. All of it is fun to me
I've seen and heard all the comments about the heads up .90 class break out Sewer Gas cars and can tell you those that think and make comments about them couldn't get by one round at a local .90 race let alone at a divisional or national event
I don't let other people tell me what I should like to do, especially when it comes to fun and cars
Do your own thing and tell the doubters and haters to stick their opinion up there behind

Well there area couple guys here who have commented that have won Division titles and some that chased points for years in .90 racing.....So I think some get it for sure.

I ran S/ST for years and went back to brackets because, as Dave Hall said, the NHRA tour is much more expensive. I can bracket race for a month for what it costs to attend one NHRA event, and my chances of winning $$$ are far greater. I need every $50 quarterfinal or $20 round money I can get to keep my operation running.

Division stuff is expensive for sure, not to mention the time off work and out here the travel expenses. Then there is the National events, ugh don't even get me started on those..

Winning a big money bracket race without a pipe rack... Did you see who won BOTH of the million dollar bracket races this year?? Big tire door car got them both! It was even 2 door cars in the finals of the East coast race too. Shows you don't need the dragster to be successful in the big $$ bracket race game.

Do dragsters react more consistently and are easier to drive the stripe?..........absolutely. Do you HAVE to own one to win?......absolutely NOT

Delay boxes, throttle stops, electronics, make winning easy! We need more racers for bigger purses so.....dive on in!

So does that mean I should just go rent a car from Scotty Richardson or Bogacki for the weekend. After all, according to some that's an automatic win........childs play............LOL!!!!

Hell, me and Bones(Todd Ewing) are friends. He probably wouldn't even charge me, if I just gave him a percentage of all that cash I'm gonna win...........LOL!!!