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Re: ECS Flat Shipped Carpet
[Re: Pynzo]
#2044615
04/02/16 06:16 PM
04/02/16 06:16 PM
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Carpet
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Carpet
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I am still wanting to order from you as I do want a better carpet. Can you supply me with a swatch of Dark Blue and Shade 13? They appear close to what I need.
Thanks and sorry for opening up your business to any bashing, I asked for opinions on color codes. What followed was not my choice. We can supply you with whatever color you need. Please call Charlie or Tom and we can get the process going for you. Tell them what has taken place on this thread and I'll make sure they give you a discounted price! Regarding a comment made by 469runner, if you wanted a different set of Carpet all you had to do was ask. We would not have charged for return shipping if we made a mistake on the coloring. If you want, contact me personally at dave@ecsautomotive.com and I will make sure you get the color you want, free of charge. We are getting ready to send our container for 24 "custom" sets to be ordered, so the timing is perfect. As I said, our orders are VERY specific and custom to what our Customer wants. We don't just take an order and go with a default color. We leave nothing to chance if at all possible.
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Re: ECS Flat Shipped Carpet
[Re: 469runner]
#2044618
04/02/16 06:21 PM
04/02/16 06:21 PM
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Carpet
Unregistered
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Carpet
Unregistered
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I guess they don't have the darker blue. We have any color you want. I'm not sure how you received the "wrong" blue but as you can see in the picture (that I just took today showing our color swatches) we have any shade of blue needed. 
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Re: ECS Flat Shipped Carpet
[Re: LimeliteAero]
#2044712
04/02/16 09:07 PM
04/02/16 09:07 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,386
Philadelphia PA
Pynzo
OP
Drugs are bad
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OP
Drugs are bad
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,386
Philadelphia PA
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I cant add anything about your color selection but I can add that I bought one of daves flat shipped carpets in black and was more than happy with the extra material and ease of fitment. Thanks Between yours and Mr. Harms recommendations I know I'm making the right choice. Visiting car shows over the last 3 decades I've seen some wrinkled faded bad fitting carpets. Do Not need that hassle. Thanks
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Re: ECS Flat Shipped Carpet
[Re: 469runner]
#2044821
04/02/16 10:43 PM
04/02/16 10:43 PM
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maxfield303H1E
Unregistered
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maxfield303H1E
Unregistered
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"Are you sure you ordered it from ECS?" I found the shipping label. I'm not that old. Also the 1968 Charger with this carpet installed. Looks OK, should be the darker color though. I've never noticed it before on the carpets I've installed (as I've had no reason to look at the tag) but looking at yours, I see a bunch of key things that stand out to me as being unusual. Look at the instructions on the tag. It contains the information that ECS has been stating for many years as to why their Carpets are different than what is typically offered. Specifically the Call Ctr section and Ship section - "leave sides untrimmed, stack on pallet provided, no folds in carpet, carpet side up at all times, heel pads in as perfect position as possible" "customer sends his own container to be shipped, ship prepaid, etc." All of those specific items / requests mentioned above are not provided with the regular ACC carpet that is rolled up and stuffed into a box. I would think if ACC was providing this service already, why would there be a need to specifically call out special instructions for extra material, perfect heel pad placement, no folds, and other stuff.
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Re: ECS Flat Shipped Carpet
[Re: 69_SIX_PACK]
#2045331
04/03/16 02:19 PM
04/03/16 02:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Can someone take a moment to explain the "mass backing"
Dave It's a thick rubber membrane (.060-.125) to bind the backing of the carpet loop/pile Mike
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Re: ECS Flat Shipped Carpet
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#2045356
04/03/16 02:39 PM
04/03/16 02:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,407
Brantford Ontario
69_SIX_PACK
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,407
Brantford Ontario
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Can someone take a moment to explain the "mass backing"
Dave It's a thick rubber membrane (.060-.125) to bind the backing of the carpet loop/pile Mike Original carpets didn't have that did they Mike? Is that what allows the carpets to lay down better? Dave
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Re: ECS Flat Shipped Carpet
[Re: 69_SIX_PACK]
#2045455
04/03/16 03:53 PM
04/03/16 03:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
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Can someone take a moment to explain the "mass backing"
Dave It's a thick rubber membrane (.060-.125) to bind the backing of the carpet loop/pile Mike Original carpets didn't have that did they Mike? Is that what allows the carpets to lay down better? Dave The mass backing is an improvement from the OE jute backing. It provides heat and noise insulation. I'm sure it isn't correct for an OEM gold restoration though. I was out in the garage yesterday looking at my carpet the shop installed in my "money pit" project, to find the damage and flaws I read here it should have from not being "shipped flat", I could find any issues, but there must be 'cause I read it on the Internet! While peeling it back I noticed it was jute backed. The carpet I installed in my vert last fall was mass backing. The mass backing is very nice, fit like a glove, the trimming was a bear though with the thick rubber backing. That carpet weighed a lot, the ACC shipping box must have weighed 40-50# when I picked it up off my stoop when it got delivered. And the thickness of it is why I had trouble getting the sills installed. I won't have problems installing my NOS sills on my project car since it isn't mass backing. The ACC jute backing isn't OEM correct either, reference the "million dollar Superbird?" article in a recent Muscle Car Review magazine where they discuss reusing the original carpet in that bird and show the original jute they reused because the stuff on currently available carpets looks much different.
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Re: ECS Flat Shipped Carpet
[Re: Mastershake340]
#2045568
04/03/16 05:40 PM
04/03/16 05:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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While peeling it back I noticed it was jute backed. The carpet I installed in my vert last fall was mass backing. The mass backing is very nice, fit like a glove, the trimming was a bear though with the thick rubber backing. That carpet weighed a lot, the ACC shipping box must have weighed 40-50# when I picked it up off my stoop when it got delivered.
And the thickness of it is why I had trouble getting the sills installed. I won't have problems installing my NOS sills on my project car since it isn't mass backing
Last ACC carpet I installed had mass backing along with a high cut pile design, I had zero issues with the sill plates, I'll agree the mass backing makes for more effort cutting/trimming, but makes for a better product IMHO... as far as whether shipped flat ACC/ECS carpet is better than just an out right purchase from ACC rolled up in a box, we all have our own wants and desires in regard to quality, ease of installation, price, etc, etc, just be fortunate someone like Dave Walden has seen to the effort and expense to meet those needs, personally I usually custom order a high cut pile carpet because I like the look and feel of the material, and yes I order it directly thru ACC because it's a custom order and made that day, and yes arrives rolled in a box, but has only spent a few days rolled, not like some ACC 80/20 loop inventory which could number days or years in a box, but if I had to order an OEM style 80/20 loop rug, ECS ship flat is the only way to go IMHO...now if someone could only offer a headliner delivered rolled instead of folded, that would be a blessing to the enthusiast Mike
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Re: ECS Flat Shipped Carpet
[Re: Pynzo]
#2045764
04/03/16 10:57 PM
04/03/16 10:57 PM
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maxfield303H1E
Unregistered
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maxfield303H1E
Unregistered
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I can't see how the mass backing will make the carpet fit any better. From how I understand it, it is just an added sound deadener and heat shield. I guess you could compare it to that Gator skin or Lizard Skin stuff that you put down before you install the carpeting. Personally, I've always used the factory type stuff without that added mass backing as my customers never specifically asked for it. I can't see how something that is added on would make it fit any better than what the carpet should without that stuff. Its kind of like saying that your paint will stick to the body better with a coat of wax versus no coat of wax. You can put all the add on stuff you want after the fact but if you don't have the right prep, that paint won't adhere to the body no matter what kind of wax or add on you put on after the fact on top of the paint.
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Re: ECS Flat Shipped Carpet
[Re: ]
#2045815
04/03/16 11:41 PM
04/03/16 11:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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I can't see how the mass backing will make the carpet fit any better. The mass backing gives the carpet more structure or integrity to maintain it's shape, if you compare it to the "regular" bonded membrane which cracks/breaks when folded, esp in formed areas you'll see that the mass membrane doesn't become damaged when subjected to folds/creases, plus the thicker coating I would suspect offers some extra degree of sound deadening, and moisture resistance as well
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Re: ECS Flat Shipped Carpet
[Re: Pynzo]
#2045827
04/03/16 11:59 PM
04/03/16 11:59 PM
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maxfield303H1E
Unregistered
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maxfield303H1E
Unregistered
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Ok, I could possibly see that to a point but if the mass backing is a harder rubber type of material, wouldn't the rubber stretch and still cause a bump if its a harder type of rubber? Granted, softer, more flexible rubber would most likely return to its original shape but I'd still be concerned about folding that mass backing to those sharp bends like how they are folded and stuffed into the boxes.
Either way, I don't think ECS offers the carpet with that mass backing material on it as that is something that would not have been like that from the factory.
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Re: ECS Flat Shipped Carpet
[Re: ]
#2045918
04/04/16 01:20 AM
04/04/16 01:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
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My mass back carpet I installed last fall was perfect with no creases, they ship it rolled up, not folded.
Mike mentioned that he believes the 80/20 carpet sits in inventory for a period of time before shipping, but I question that. Just about any Mopar application is low volume in sales. It wouldn't pay to make up large quantities of carpets just to have to store them in warehouses until when and if an order comes in. When you think about the large number of cars dating back until 1960 they offer molded carpet for (according to ACCs website), variety of colors, mass or standard backing, etc, the number of variations of carpets they offer are huge.
I suspect all but their highest volume carpets are made to order after an order is received. Therefore, an ACC carpet has only been rolled up in its shipping box for several days when it arrives at the customers address from when it was manufactured.
Of course, there is always that chance that someone returned or canceled a carpet order, and that carpet has been sitting on their shelves for a long period waiting for an order for it to come in. Slim chance, but I suspect it happens once in a while.
I threw away the large box my carpet came in right after receiving it, but I did find the box the matching floor mats I got shortly after installing the carpet came in. You can see the mats were produced and shipped the day after the order was received. I'm sure I'd find that my carpet had been produced the day before it was shipped too, if I still had that shipping box.
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Re: ECS Flat Shipped Carpet
[Re: Mastershake340]
#2046034
04/04/16 05:19 AM
04/04/16 05:19 AM
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maxfield303H1E
Unregistered
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maxfield303H1E
Unregistered
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My mass back carpet I installed last fall was perfect with no creases, they ship it rolled up, not folded.
Mike mentioned that he believes the 80/20 carpet sits in inventory for a period of time before shipping, but I question that. Just about any Mopar application is low volume in sales. It wouldn't pay to make up large quantities of carpets just to have to store them in warehouses until when and if an order comes in. When you think about the large number of cars dating back until 1960 they offer molded carpet for (according to ACCs website), variety of colors, mass or standard backing, etc, the number of variations of carpets they offer are huge.
I suspect all but their highest volume carpets are made to order after an order is received. Therefore, an ACC carpet has only been rolled up in its shipping box for several days when it arrives at the customers address from when it was manufactured.
Of course, there is always that chance that someone returned or canceled a carpet order, and that carpet has been sitting on their shelves for a long period waiting for an order for it to come in. Slim chance, but I suspect it happens once in a while.
I threw away the large box my carpet came in right after receiving it, but I did find the box the matching floor mats I got shortly after installing the carpet came in. You can see the mats were produced and shipped the day after the order was received. I'm sure I'd find that my carpet had been produced the day before it was shipped too, if I still had that shipping box. Mastershake340, With all due respect, your thought process doesn't get you any closer to the reality / actuality of how they manage their inventory. Unless you specifically know how they rotate their stock from either working there yourself or talking to one of the employees, it's a waste of time discussing opinions based on nothing more than unsubstantiated speculation. Again, you need to think like a manufacturer. Would you take the time to do small runs or would it be more cost effective to do a large run and have product on hand to be shipped out right away when an order comes in?
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Re: ECS Flat Shipped Carpet
[Re: ]
#2046099
04/04/16 10:44 AM
04/04/16 10:44 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 768
Dry Heat AZ
AAR#2
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 768
Dry Heat AZ
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My mass back carpet I installed last fall was perfect with no creases, they ship it rolled up, not folded.
Mike mentioned that he believes the 80/20 carpet sits in inventory for a period of time before shipping, but I question that. Just about any Mopar application is low volume in sales. It wouldn't pay to make up large quantities of carpets just to have to store them in warehouses until when and if an order comes in. When you think about the large number of cars dating back until 1960 they offer molded carpet for (according to ACCs website), variety of colors, mass or standard backing, etc, the number of variations of carpets they offer are huge.
I suspect all but their highest volume carpets are made to order after an order is received. Therefore, an ACC carpet has only been rolled up in its shipping box for several days when it arrives at the customers address from when it was manufactured.
Of course, there is always that chance that someone returned or canceled a carpet order, and that carpet has been sitting on their shelves for a long period waiting for an order for it to come in. Slim chance, but I suspect it happens once in a while.
I threw away the large box my carpet came in right after receiving it, but I did find the box the matching floor mats I got shortly after installing the carpet came in. You can see the mats were produced and shipped the day after the order was received. I'm sure I'd find that my carpet had been produced the day before it was shipped too, if I still had that shipping box. Mastershake340, With all due respect, your thought process doesn't get you any closer to the reality / actuality of how they manage their inventory. Unless you specifically know how they rotate their stock from either working there yourself or talking to one of the employees, it's a waste of time discussing opinions based on nothing more than unsubstantiated speculation. Again, you need to think like a manufacturer. Would you take the time to do small runs or would it be more cost effective to do a large run and have product on hand to be shipped out right away when an order comes in? When I ordered my carpet direct from ACC last year, they told me they make carpet to order and that only bulk material is stored. Considering all the makes, models, years, configurations and colors, as well as space to store and material set (unhappy customers) due to form/roll/storage, it makes sense.
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