ECS Flat Shipped Carpet

I just got a call from ECS and they're taking orders for carpets again. I want to jump on this at $379 shipped it sounds to be a great deal with the extra material and quality. I need a H2B7 interior for my '70 Bee. I had pulled the OEM carpet out 30 years ago and recall it being darker than the interior plastic kick panels and seat cover material.
What color code should I use to order?
Thanks!

Edit- couple of pics from web searches for H2B7 interiors. They definitely look different. Bottom pic is how I remember my OEM carpet being.

I needed what you have on the bottom. I even sent in a sample. What I received is the color in the top pic. I wasn't really happy about it. I wasn't going to pay to send it back. I guess they don't have the darker blue. So I installed what I got. ECS told me my sample had faded darker? I wouldn't bother again.

I guess I'll have to order from Auto Custom Carpet then. What color to choose? Dark Blue or Shade 13?

Frugal car guy flat carpet plan-
1. Order ACC carpet on Monday (for best price, can use Rock Auto as they carry ACC and your carpet is drop shipped from ACC anyway)
2. Carpet arrives Thursday or Friday. From your order to your delivery time, it's only been rolled up in the box for several days. Remove immediately from box, unroll and lay out somewhere in your house, shop or whatever, for a few days minimum.
3. Install your flat carpet in car
4. Go out and enjoy the $200 you just saved
Note-plan not guaranteed to work in Canada, Alaska, Hawaii, and any other place where shipping delays occur.

I would say the 13 shade would be correct for your car.

What do they have for green? Tim

After seeing how nice the ECS carpet set is I got for my Duster I wouldn't even consider buying anything else.

Are you sure you ordered it from ECS? I've gotten two different sets from them (I think I spoke to Charlie or Tom) and they were very specific with the colors when I was ordering. In depth to the point of a bunch of back and forth with calls and emails just to get the right color. The one carpet that I installed didn't match ACC's carpet default color but was actually a Ford color according to the employee at ECS when they looked up the colors.

ECS actually seems to offer more in their colors than ACC. ACC has a specific offering for Chrysler cars in their list but ECS somehow provides colors outside of the normal scope of what ACC does. From what I've been told, all of the ECS carpeting is custom made at the time that you order by ACC. The shape is crisp because the backing has never been fractured from being rolled up and shoved into a box. Having it fit correctly can easily take a couple of hours off of the installation time.

Both of the carpets I got from them I was VERY happy with and fit perfectly. I actually needed to trim a little off of the area under the sill plates on one of them since it was a little too big. ( Hey, I'd rather have too much and trim down than not enough and have it be showing metal!)

I'd honestly like to know how the other poster can guarantee that ordering on a Monday, say, will guarantee that your carpet was made when your order was placed. You could still get carpet from inventory that has sat rolled up for a many weeks or longer.

I'll be getting in a car soon that will need to have its carpet replaced (as well as the rest of the interior) and I'm going to see if the owner wants to go this route as the fit is far better than anyone elses out there.

Pynzo, the bottom picture you posted looks WAAAAY better IMHO

From ACC's color chart-

I checked Rock Auto. I can order Dark Blue from them, ACC carpet. $135 shipped. Mass Backing about $40 more. Is the mass backing worth it?
One more question- does rolling the carpet affect the 4 speed hump?
Thanks!

I totally agree. That's how I remember my interior looking. Varying shades of blue. The only thing I see missing in that pic is the center seat belt. The upper dash pad looks a little light to me, I remember mine being a darker shade than the dash paint. I'm glad I came across the pics, If anyone needs more for reference let me know. I have several shots of that interior from various angles.

Could the first picture be weathered? IDK

I am not in a position to guarantee anything, I am not in the business, just passing along what the high end Mopar shop that painted and partially reassembled "money pit", my T/A project, told me they do rather than order the higher cost shipped flat carpet. With a Rock Auto gift certificate I won at a car show earlier in the season about to expire, and the carpet in my FK5 convertible looking faded and a bit ratty, I tried the shop's carpet advice, ordered over the weekend, it arrived from ACC Thursday or Friday, laid it out immediately, and I have a hard time imagining it could have been any flatter if I'd ordered "shipped flat".
Fit my into my car's floorboard perfectly. Required lots of trimming though.
My understanding is the ACC carpets are stored flat until they are rolled up to put in a box to ship an order.
Your results may vary....


Not that I can tell. Looks fine in "money pit"
The biggest issue I ran into installing the frugal car guy method flat ACC carpet was getting the sills on. The ACC carpet is thick! I cut a relief in the lower carpet section under where the upper section overlaps, had a friend pushing down on the sill while I put in screws, etc, still had to use a rubber mallet on the sill in a few spots to get it in place well enough it didn't rub the door panels. I have 30 year old NOS sills for money pit, dreading finishing the carpet on that car, as I am not using a rubber mallet on those NOS sills! Any advice on dealing with that issue would be appreciated, sorry if I'm going a little OT.

"Are you sure you ordered it from ECS?" I found the shipping label. I'm not that old. Also the 1968 Charger with this carpet installed. Looks OK, should be the darker color though.

I can vouch for leaving your rolled up carpet you purchased, in the box for a few years is not the way to do it..

I suppose a pro with a steam gun could have got the wrinkles out but "not a pro " here.... LOL

Mastershake,

Ok, so you are getting the info third party then. I'd like to see ACC's warehouse if they store all of their carpets flat since that must take up a HUGE amount of space. Having them rolled up and boxed would certainly take up a lot less space making that space available for other machines or product or whatever. Logically thinking, with all the varying styles of floor pans they have for not only Mopar, but all of the other brands they sell, even if they were to stack all of the carpets "flat" on each other, wouldn't the carpeting get crushed if another body style was laid on top of it since the mold would be different?

Again, I have no clue what ACC does as I have never seen their facility, but as a business owner, I know that my space is precious. Any wasted space is like throwing money out the door. Kind of like leaving a window open yet having the heat going full blast.


469runner,

Just curious but was that the color that you and the employee at ECS agreed upon after discussion or was that the color that you told them that you wanted?

I thought it best if I set the record straight before any additional falsehoods were made regarding this topic. First let me say that we NEVER pick a Carpet color for our Customers. Our ordering possess is very customized to accommodate our Customer's selection. Nothing is ordered until they select and/or agree upon the color they order. We even send small "samples" cut from our swatches to ensure they are aware of the EXACT color they will be receiving. You can see the little pieces cut from our samples (sent to our Customers) in the picture below. We have every color ACC provides because ACC manufactures our Carpets CUSTOM to our specifications. We don't have a "Chrysler" color because ALL of their colors are offered to our Customers as Chrysler colors. If your Carpet matched an AMC color better than the Chrysler color they use for a default, we can have your Carpet custom manufactured withe that particular color! ACC has colors they offer to the Chrysler Market, while we open EVERY color up to our Customers to make sure they get a color that best represents their selection. For the record, we don't make a penny on the Carpet we sell. We probably lose money on every set that goes out. I pay ACC more than what their advertised Carpet typically sells for delivered. I only offer Carpet a couple of times a year to those who want the best custom fit product that they can buy. I had this carpet Custom made for my projects and I periodically offer it to the Hobby as a favor, for those who are more concerned with Factory correctness than saving a few dollars for a lessor product.

Second, you would have to be naive or delusional to think that ACC is inventorying their carpet "flat" until a Customer orders it. I know how their manufacturing is done because I work with them in this area. The rolling of their Carpet process is part of their manufacturing process. Every Carpet they make is rolled on their assembly line and forced into a box after it has been shaped and molded. Do you think they are removing their Carpets off of their processing line, stacking them throughput their Facility and then handling them again to package when a Customer orders it? Their machinery rolls them TIGHT and then puts them into shipping box. One of the reasons our Carpet cost more is due to the fact that they have to run our Carpet on a separate day in a dedicated fashion. They have to change their normal manufacturing process to hand remove our Carpet from the line before it gets to the rolling phase. Since this adds extra steps for them, we get charged more for the benefit of keeping the Carpet flat. That's exactly how the Factory had their Carpets shipped to them. Flat! Whether it be 5 minuets or 5 days, rolling the Carpet FRACTURES the molded backing and it can never return to its original shape. Try folding paper and then laying it flat again. It may be flat to some degree but you will never remove the seam that's left on the paper's surface.

We have Restoration Shops that claim our Carpet saves them HOURS of installation time due to our "flat manufactured" feature. They don't have to get out heat guns or put their car in the Sun for days in hopes that it removes the bumps and imperfections that "rolling" caused. Since you have come here to present false claims about our products and related information, I didn't think you would mind if I presented the facts!

Thats pretty much what I said about them wasting space with storing all of the carpets flat. With a business, space is money.

Hello ECS and welcome to the discussion. I am still wanting to order from you as I do want a better carpet. I believe rolling a carpet up would totally damage the 4speed hump and with it exposed want the cleanest crispest fit available. A console hides it all but my bench seat interior will leave it exposed. Can you supply me with a swatch of Dark Blue and Shade 13? They appear close to what I need.
Thanks and sorry for opening up your business to any bashing, I asked for opinions on color codes. What followed was not my choice.

We can supply you with whatever color you need. Please call Charlie or Tom and we can get the process going for you. Tell them what has taken place on this thread and I'll make sure they give you a discounted price!

Regarding a comment made by 469runner, if you wanted a different set of Carpet all you had to do was ask. We would not have charged for return shipping if we made a mistake on the coloring.

If you want, contact me personally at dave@ecsautomotive.com and I will make sure you get the color you want, free of charge. We are getting ready to send our container for 24 "custom" sets to be ordered, so the timing is perfect. As I said, our orders are VERY specific and custom to what our Customer wants. We don't just take an order and go with a default color. We leave nothing to chance if at all possible.

We have any color you want. I'm not sure how you received the "wrong" blue but as you can see in the picture (that I just took today showing our color swatches) we have any shade of blue needed.

Thanks ECS! I'll make the call. You guys Rock!

I cant add anything about your color selection but I can add that I bought one of daves flat shipped carpets in black and was more than happy with the extra material and ease of fitment.

Thanks
Between yours and Mr. Harms recommendations I know I'm making the right choice. Visiting car shows over the last 3 decades I've seen some wrinkled faded bad fitting carpets. Do Not need that hassle.
Thanks

I don't have a dog in this fight. I just want to state the facts as I found. I had inquired about ordering a set of this carpet. I was told it would be a while before any would be available. The salesman took my name and number. A few months later I received a call that orders were being taken. I sent in patch of my old carpet for color matching, the salesman returned my call saying they had an exact match. OK, order was placed and about a month later I had my carpet. Yes, the fit was beautiful. I didn't follow up and ask for an exchange. I know these interiors fade and discolor. So it is on me that I didn't contact ECS. I appreciate the offer of a replacement. But, obviously some of the responsibility is on me.

I've never noticed it before on the carpets I've installed (as I've had no reason to look at the tag) but looking at yours, I see a bunch of key things that stand out to me as being unusual.

Look at the instructions on the tag. It contains the information that ECS has been stating for many years as to why their Carpets are different than what is typically offered.

Specifically the Call Ctr section and Ship section -

"leave sides untrimmed, stack on pallet provided, no folds in carpet, carpet side up at all times, heel pads in as perfect position as possible"

"customer sends his own container to be shipped, ship prepaid, etc."


All of those specific items / requests mentioned above are not provided with the regular ACC carpet that is rolled up and stuffed into a box. I would think if ACC was providing this service already, why would there be a need to specifically call out special instructions for extra material, perfect heel pad placement, no folds, and other stuff.

Can someone take a moment to explain the "mass backing"

Dave

It's been a while but I ordered carpet from ACC for my pickup. As far as fit goes, it wasn't even close. I trashed it and ordered from ECS, the fit was fine.

It's a thick rubber membrane (.060-.125) to bind the backing of the carpet loop/pile

Mike

Original carpets didn't have that did they Mike? Is that what allows the carpets to lay down better?

Dave

The mass backing is an improvement from the OE jute backing. It provides heat and noise insulation. I'm sure it isn't correct for an OEM gold restoration though.
I was out in the garage yesterday looking at my carpet the shop installed in my "money pit" project, to find the damage and flaws I read here it should have from not being "shipped flat", I could find any issues, but there must be 'cause I read it on the Internet!
While peeling it back I noticed it was jute backed. The carpet I installed in my vert last fall was mass backing. The mass backing is very nice, fit like a glove, the trimming was a bear though with the thick rubber backing. That carpet weighed a lot, the ACC shipping box must have weighed 40-50# when I picked it up off my stoop when it got delivered.
And the thickness of it is why I had trouble getting the sills installed. I won't have problems installing my NOS sills on my project car since it isn't mass backing.
The ACC jute backing isn't OEM correct either, reference the "million dollar Superbird?" article in a recent Muscle Car Review magazine where they discuss reusing the original carpet in that bird and show the original jute they reused because the stuff on currently available carpets looks much different.

Last ACC carpet I installed had mass backing along with a high cut pile design, I had zero issues with the sill plates, I'll agree the mass backing makes for more effort cutting/trimming, but makes for a better product IMHO... as far as whether shipped flat ACC/ECS carpet is better than just an out right purchase from ACC rolled up in a box, we all have our own wants and desires in regard to quality, ease of installation, price, etc, etc, just be fortunate someone like Dave Walden has seen to the effort and expense to meet those needs, personally I usually custom order a high cut pile carpet because I like the look and feel of the material, and yes I order it directly thru ACC because it's a custom order and made that day, and yes arrives rolled in a box, but has only spent a few days rolled, not like some ACC 80/20 loop inventory which could number days or years in a box, but if I had to order an OEM style 80/20 loop rug, ECS ship flat is the only way to go IMHO...now if someone could only offer a headliner delivered rolled instead of folded, that would be a blessing to the enthusiast

Mike

I can't see how the mass backing will make the carpet fit any better. From how I understand it, it is just an added sound deadener and heat shield. I guess you could compare it to that Gator skin or Lizard Skin stuff that you put down before you install the carpeting. Personally, I've always used the factory type stuff without that added mass backing as my customers never specifically asked for it. I can't see how something that is added on would make it fit any better than what the carpet should without that stuff. Its kind of like saying that your paint will stick to the body better with a coat of wax versus no coat of wax. You can put all the add on stuff you want after the fact but if you don't have the right prep, that paint won't adhere to the body no matter what kind of wax or add on you put on after the fact on top of the paint.

Thanks for all the great info.

Dave

The mass backing gives the carpet more structure or integrity to maintain it's shape, if you compare it to the "regular" bonded membrane which cracks/breaks when folded, esp in formed areas you'll see that the mass membrane doesn't become damaged when subjected to folds/creases, plus the thicker coating I would suspect offers some extra degree of sound deadening, and moisture resistance as well

Ok, I could possibly see that to a point but if the mass backing is a harder rubber type of material, wouldn't the rubber stretch and still cause a bump if its a harder type of rubber? Granted, softer, more flexible rubber would most likely return to its original shape but I'd still be concerned about folding that mass backing to those sharp bends like how they are folded and stuffed into the boxes.

Either way, I don't think ECS offers the carpet with that mass backing material on it as that is something that would not have been like that from the factory.

My mass back carpet I installed last fall was perfect with no creases, they ship it rolled up, not folded.
Mike mentioned that he believes the 80/20 carpet sits in inventory for a period of time before shipping, but I question that. Just about any Mopar application is low volume in sales. It wouldn't pay to make up large quantities of carpets just to have to store them in warehouses until when and if an order comes in. When you think about the large number of cars dating back until 1960 they offer molded carpet for (according to ACCs website), variety of colors, mass or standard backing, etc, the number of variations of carpets they offer are huge.
I suspect all but their highest volume carpets are made to order after an order is received. Therefore, an ACC carpet has only been rolled up in its shipping box for several days when it arrives at the customers address from when it was manufactured.
Of course, there is always that chance that someone returned or canceled a carpet order, and that carpet has been sitting on their shelves for a long period waiting for an order for it to come in. Slim chance, but I suspect it happens once in a while.
I threw away the large box my carpet came in right after receiving it, but I did find the box the matching floor mats I got shortly after installing the carpet came in. You can see the mats were produced and shipped the day after the order was received. I'm sure I'd find that my carpet had been produced the day before it was shipped too, if I still had that shipping box.

Mastershake340,

With all due respect, your thought process doesn't get you any closer to the reality / actuality of how they manage their inventory. Unless you specifically know how they rotate their stock from either working there yourself or talking to one of the employees, it's a waste of time discussing opinions based on nothing more than unsubstantiated speculation.

Again, you need to think like a manufacturer. Would you take the time to do small runs or would it be more cost effective to do a large run and have product on hand to be shipped out right away when an order comes in?

When I ordered my carpet direct from ACC last year, they told me they make carpet to order and that only bulk material is stored. Considering all the makes, models, years, configurations and colors, as well as space to store and material set (unhappy customers) due to form/roll/storage, it makes sense.

Actually I've been an engineer for manufacturers, mostly automotive and truck, for over 25 years and have spent more than my share of time in plants and distribution centers.
Hope I've learned a few things in that time.
I was mistaken when I relayed my recollection from what my restoration guy told me 2 years ago, that they were stored flat before shipping. He told me they weren't rolled up until shipping, he may have told me they were made to order, he may have mistakenly said they were stored flat, I don't recall after 2 years. After Dave snuck in here around his ban and said ACC doesn't store carpet flat, I thought about it and realized he was right, but also I thought about it from my manufacturing background that it didn't make sense to have thousands of different iterations of carpet rolled up in boxes sitting around for anywhere from days to forever in warehouses waiting for orders either.
At any rate, I was just passing along what my restoration guy told me as to how to get flat carpet quickly on a budget. I tried what he told me last fall on my convertible, my new mass backed carpet looks great and I can't wait to drive it soon when the season starts, and enjoy the $200+ I saved too.
At any rate, I'm at work supposed to be figuring out how to set up a damn Def tank for an export sewer vac truck with EuroV Cummins engines right now, not arguing on the internet about my carpet is flatter than yours or who knows more about manufacturing!
More than one way to skin a cat, Dave makes great products, no reason to not buy his product if you choose, but no reason to say that's the one and only way to get a good carpet installation either. And certainly no point arguing the issue to death!

I agree. I asked for a color recommendation and whether or not rolling a carpet would damage a 4speed hump. My questions were answered and now have made my choice. A flat shipped carpet from ECS is what I will order.
Thanks to all posters on this subject.

I got my color samples yesterday and am ready to order now. Dark Blue on the left and Shade 13 on the right. Compared to a clean original seat belt I like the Shade 13 better.
Opinions?

Oh Man am I glad I was home today! Fed Ex just dropped off my carpet and it is beautiful! I went with Shade 13 Blue and it is a great match to my only remaining original B7 interior pieces. I got a package tray from ECS also.
Great Deal!

thats a nice looking blue !