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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big?
[Re: lawndart]
#2038264
03/25/16 03:21 AM
03/25/16 03:21 AM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 463
Rescue CA.
joes68340s
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 463
Rescue CA.
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Funny you should bring this up I have a set of Firm Feel 1.24 Bars but haven't used them yet. I don't know what will happen or how it will sit. The Bars I'm running know have the adjusters completely backed out. and it sits low. I'm running 18 inch wheels its set up for autox now but I will also be running some track days. By the way I have a pair of 17x10 Bullet wheels for sale. I'm in Redwood city.
Last edited by joes68340s; 03/25/16 03:43 AM. Reason: more info
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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#2038276
03/25/16 04:30 AM
03/25/16 04:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 16
SF Bay Area
lawndart
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 16
SF Bay Area
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Tim Werner's red 68 Valiant has 1.24" and special selected/spec'd billstein shocks.
It's one of the most formidable stock bodied, torsion bar, leaf spring, stock suspension points street car.  Looks like a good ride height and with a smallblock. I wonder whether its just uncranked adjusters or indexed TBs to get there. Joes, what size TBs are you running for autox? What wheel and tire specs with the 18s? I'm kinda trying to keep front and rear wheel & tire dimensions the same, I'm thinkng 10" wide wheels might be too much for the front of a dart even with backspace/offset nailed. Although I'm not opposed to massive flaring or reworking of fender openings, heh
Last edited by lawndart; 03/25/16 04:31 AM.
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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big?
[Re: joes68340s]
#2038329
03/25/16 10:28 AM
03/25/16 10:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
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Now I'm running 1.06 yes 17x10 up front might not work yet. I'm running 18x10s square 295s. I'm looking for 315 for rear. I have Tomswheels Purple Valiant. Its dialed in pretty good and ran very well with Tom driving. I'm a rookie driver my background is Drag racing but Ive given that up to drive more and not have to trailer anymore. I have a few different strokers to play with so I'm going to add more power to the car. Bring it on down to Spring Fling Speed Fest and see what it's like. Get some seat time and work into the setup you want and are ready for.
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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big?
[Re: lawndart]
#2038339
03/25/16 10:39 AM
03/25/16 10:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
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My experience with fatty torsion bars is only on a B-Body. I put 1.12 Firmfeel bars on that car and had to completely backoff the adjusters to get a reasonably low ride height. The fact that there was no adjuster preload didn't seem to be too big of an issue. Wish I would have gone for the 1.18s to start though.
For my 318 Dart, I'd like to go with either 1.18s or 1.24s, either Magnumforce or Firmfeel. I'm aware that the a-body length TBs are higher spring rate than the same diameter B or E body bars.
Anyone here run 1.24s on an a-body for a roadrace application? Is it too stiff with good shocks (RCD Bilstein, etc)? Planning on using 275ish tires on some 17x9 or so wheels.
I'm worried that with 1.24s the high spring rate will prevent me from getting the front end low enough even if I uncrank the adjusters all the way. I want the front of the car to be longtube-scraping low. Does anyone do huge TBs indexed for a low ride height with some adjuster preload? Kind of want to avoid 2" drop spindles based on what I've read about increased roll-center height.
Not at all all worried about on-road comfort, just trying to be as competitive as possible handling-wise with a torsion bar sprung mopar. This will in the not too distant future be a fully caged car and I'm going to be running a 1.25 tubular front bar (swaybar is on the way along with geometry corrected non-adjustable tubular UCAs), rear sway bar is TBD. I'll probably also be buying adjustable strut rods at the same time as I order the TBs, which strut rods would y'all recommend?
Any input by those with roadrace a-bodies with mega-fat TBs is appreciated. Thanks. There is no pre load to a torsion bar. The adjuster just sets the ride height. You can even remove the adjuster screw and run the lever arm sitting on the nut if it puts you at the right place height and weight balance wise. With big t-bars you should step up beyond the RCD's. Like the bilstein adjustable level. 72 Swinger did that jump with a noticeable difference IIRC. And maybe some others.
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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big?
[Re: lawndart]
#2038494
03/25/16 02:34 PM
03/25/16 02:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,074
Manitoba Canada
67autocross
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,074
Manitoba Canada
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One of my cars has 1.14s in it and you can lower the car down to the bump stops or all the way up to stock ride height, it really depends on the bar clocking. I was going to put 1.20s in it but they hit the headers on both sides and I didn't feel it was worth denting and bending them to fit the bigger bars.
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big?
[Re: lawndart]
#2038511
03/25/16 02:52 PM
03/25/16 02:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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The nice thing about getting Firm Feel bars is those guys are not idiots, and the hexes are in the right spot for the appropriate bar size.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big?
[Re: lawndart]
#2038597
03/25/16 05:23 PM
03/25/16 05:23 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 701
Northern California
lilcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 701
Northern California
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I'm the current owner of "Tim's Valiant". It's pretty low, but not so low that you can't drive it around town. I believe that it has no bump stops on the lower control arms. I would have to double-check next time I'm out in the garage.
The one thing about the 1.24" bars is that header clearance is almost nonexistent. I think the headers are touching the bars. Could be an issue if the paint rubs off and they rust?
Lawndart, I know that you mentioned that you don't care about the ride, but just FYI, it's not that bad. The thing about the car that makes it a little unbearable for the street is the noise echoing through the car because of no sound-deadening material.
I see you're in the SF Bay Area. I am as well. If you want to check out the car sometime, that could be arranged.
'67 is an abbreviation of 1967
67' is an abbreviation of 67 feet
They are not interchangeable.
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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big?
[Re: joes68340s]
#2038599
03/25/16 05:25 PM
03/25/16 05:25 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 701
Northern California
lilcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 701
Northern California
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Now I'm running 1.06 yes 17x10 up front might not work yet. I'm running 18x10s square 295s. I'm looking for 315 for rear. I have Tomswheels Purple Valiant. Its dialed in pretty good and ran very well with Tom driving. I'm a rookie driver my background is Drag racing but Ive given that up to drive more and not have to trailer anymore. I have a few different strokers to play with so I'm going to add more power to the car. Joe, Just saw that you bought the purple Valiant. Congrats! Lee
'67 is an abbreviation of 1967
67' is an abbreviation of 67 feet
They are not interchangeable.
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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big?
[Re: lawndart]
#2038602
03/25/16 05:27 PM
03/25/16 05:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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17x10 will never clear the outer tierods.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big?
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#2038925
03/26/16 12:56 AM
03/26/16 12:56 AM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 463
Rescue CA.
joes68340s
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 463
Rescue CA.
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Ive got a few motors so that's not a problem. The trade was good for me to as I didn't want to start modifying my AAR Cuda.
Last edited by joes68340s; 03/26/16 12:59 AM. Reason: more info
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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#2038953
03/26/16 01:33 AM
03/26/16 01:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 16
SF Bay Area
lawndart
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 16
SF Bay Area
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With big t-bars you should step up beyond the RCD's. Like the bilstein adjustable level. 72 Swinger did that jump with a noticeable difference IIRC. And maybe some others. Autoxcuda, have any more info or p/n's on the Bilstein adjustables you mentioned? Think I'm gonna go with Firmfeel 1.24s, talked to Dick there today and he says I should be able to get the car to ride on LCA bumpstops by uncranking TB adjusters. We'll see what happens when I get em. Also think I'll order up the Hotchkis adjustable strut rods and the p-s-t greasable LCA pivot shafts and bushings on Monday.
The one thing about the 1.24" bars is that header clearance is almost nonexistent. I think the headers are touching the bars. Could be an issue if the paint rubs off and they rust?
lilcuda, which brand headers are you referring to when you say theres no clearance with 1.24 TBs? I'm about to swap in a less-crushed set of no-name longtubes for the very-crushed set of hedman longtubes on the car currently and I may just dent 'em a lil to clear the TB although I'll probably be going with a set of hedman shorties eventually. Never done a set of longtubes on an a-body, looks freakin tight, does that job require lifting the motor or disconnecting brake booster/master cylinder?
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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big?
[Re: lawndart]
#2038957
03/26/16 01:40 AM
03/26/16 01:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
I got lucky at Woodward!
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I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
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IIRC he has the Fox non-adjusatbles shocks from Hotchkis. The adjustable one's are better.
As for headers, TTI or Dougs generally fit the best.
Last edited by MuuMuu101; 03/26/16 01:42 AM.
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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big?
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#2038984
03/26/16 02:45 AM
03/26/16 02:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 16
SF Bay Area
lawndart
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 16
SF Bay Area
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As for headers, TTI or Dougs generally fit the best. Wonder why the Doug's longtubes only go up to '72 for Darts per their site, mine's a '73? Do the TTIs or DOugs tuck up into the subframe rails better? I'm thinking about ditching longtubes because all of the (admittedly cheaper) ones I've seen on low a-bodies and b-bodies hang low enough below the subframe to where they scrape pavement pretty easily
Last edited by lawndart; 03/26/16 02:52 AM.
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