Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2020008
02/26/16 04:27 AM
02/26/16 04:27 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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is the '73 the one with the heavy rods etc or a std forged crank 440?
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2020011
02/26/16 04:37 AM
02/26/16 04:37 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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iirc 73 or 74 was the changeover year (supposedly could be either way). I bought a hiway patrol orange 440 from a '73 fury & it had the heavy rods/dampener (6 pak?). Adam you've gotten alot of love on this Q (over 2K hits!), good luck with the build & holler how it turns out
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2020115
02/26/16 12:54 PM
02/26/16 12:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Do not use a 509 cam in a low comp engine you will make the car a pig I would concentrate as stated on heads and engine dist running all the total I could get the car to run/ start with in normal fashion Run a hyd cam of around 480-490 lift keep the centerline at around 112 Good intake and exhaust If you can try a 350 horse from late 60 early 70s still around and cheap if still in a car. Do not pay any attention to the Mopar bible for total timing limits of 36 or so Give the engine all it can take and back off when she barks. Run a 650-750 dbl pumper 650 for throttle response 750 if you can for overall power and drag racing.
Have fun and just do it ! You dont think 509 cam even with 4.10 gears and 3000 stall? I ran a low compression 440 with a 509. Don't do it. The car was an absolute pig down low and only mediocre in the mid range and above. We dropped a 484 cam in a low compression 400 and that Road Runner was much quicker than mine.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2020182
02/26/16 01:56 PM
02/26/16 01:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 416 Georgia
KingTuna
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 416
Georgia
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Adam, I don't know if this helps you any, but here goes. I put a rebuilt 440 in my Fury last year to replace the 318 poly. Guy sold the motor to build a twin turbo 440. I bought it for 1500 bucks complete. I don't know actual compression, but i was told it is 9 to 1, has 452 heads, manifolds, and the old grind 484(cant remember the lsa). Car has a 2100 to 2400 rebuilt converter from Transgo, and 2.94 open rear end. I have the initial timing at 16, total at 36. Even with the big C body behind it, it pulls pretty durn good, especially when you wind it up. If I had 3.91 gears and a bigger stall like you, I believe it would run like a raped ape. Good luck on the build, and the thread has some good info on it for others looking to get some go on a budget.
2014 Ram 1500 Pentastar V6 1966 Fury II 4 door
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2020571
02/27/16 02:33 AM
02/27/16 02:33 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,680 Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,680
Wichita
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I Guess Im not going to be able to reuse alot of these brackets and pulleys when I ditch the smog pump and A/C, and Im pretty sure my B body uses a rear sump pan.
Gonna take it apart and see what condition the bores and rotating assembly are in, and find out which heads I have.
Apparently this engine came from a large auction of C body cars in Bend Oregon a little while ago. The guy I bought it from bought 8 imperials from this auction 440 source has the brackets and pulleys to delete the A/C for very reasonable prices! Cars usually use the center sump whereas trucks use the rear sump pan.
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2020574
02/27/16 02:45 AM
02/27/16 02:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,042 Leucadia, Ca.
vdriver
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,042
Leucadia, Ca.
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That looks like it has a #699 pan. That and the #187 are the ones the BB A body swap guys use. If it's not all beat up it's worth about $100.
Also appears to have a thin balancer, so you have a steel crank.
Last edited by vdriver; 02/27/16 02:48 AM.
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2020605
02/27/16 06:10 AM
02/27/16 06:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521 Tacoma, Washington USA
Adam71Charger
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
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I didnt know a thin balancer indicated steel crank, cool! Got most of the exterior disassembled and the engine is now on a stand. Gotta clean it before I take it any further so I dont get dirt on the valve train and internals.
Ive bought the 440 source brackets for the engine I had to sell, they are reasonably priced but it will eat into my budget. The full kit is 399.
On the bright side I will be able to recover all of that possibly more when I clean and sell the pulleys, brackets and other things I wont be re-using. The throttle linkage and kickdown will be perfect for a C-body guy, and I removed the RV2 compressor complete with all brackets and bolts so Ill be able to sell that pretty easy as well.
vdriver, thanks for the tip on the pan.
Havent found any heads for sale yet (here, ebay or craigslist) that are a better value than a new set of 440 source stealths. I will most likely be buying those, and re-use the rockers and shafts from my heads.
Will wait till I pull the heads to make any firm decisions.
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2020689
02/27/16 12:48 PM
02/27/16 12:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Gotta clean it before I take it any further so I dont get dirt on the valve train and internals. I would not sweat that as you will be cleaning EVERYTHING clean from head to toe & on the valve train slide hammering a core plug out on one end of the shaft then driving out the other one. keep the rockers in order (if reusing em). You mentioned someone in Bend Oregon purcasing a lot of Imperials, I'm wondering if it is the Cab character? I would put it past him
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2020798
02/27/16 04:09 PM
02/27/16 04:09 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521 Tacoma, Washington USA
Adam71Charger
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
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Gotta clean it before I take it any further so I dont get dirt on the valve train and internals. I would not sweat that as you will be cleaning EVERYTHING clean from head to toe & on the valve train slide hammering a core plug out on one end of the shaft then driving out the other one. keep the rockers in order (if reusing em). You mentioned someone in Bend Oregon purcasing a lot of Imperials, I'm wondering if it is the Cab character? I would put it past him I'm O.C.D. Robert I have to at least get the block clean. The guy I bought the block from is in Port Orchard Washington. He was a buyer at the auction in Bend. If I'm going with a new hydraulic flat tappet cam can I reuse my lifters?
Last edited by Adam71Charger; 02/27/16 04:14 PM.
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: NANKET]
#2020802
02/27/16 04:13 PM
02/27/16 04:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521 Tacoma, Washington USA
Adam71Charger
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
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That water pump housing is heavy, you going aluminum, or just an earlier one that exits on the other side with less iron? It all boils down to cost. Aluminum water pump is low on my priority list but I will switch if I have enough money left over
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2020837
02/27/16 05:33 PM
02/27/16 05:33 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Gotta clean it before I take it any further so I dont get dirt on the valve train and internals. I would not sweat that as you will be cleaning EVERYTHING clean from head to toe & on the valve train slide hammering a core plug out on one end of the shaft then driving out the other one. keep the rockers in order (if reusing em). You mentioned someone in Bend Oregon purcasing a lot of Imperials, I'm wondering if it is the Cab character? I would put it past him If I'm going with a new hydraulic flat tappet cam can I reuse my lifters? Nope. New flat tappet cams needs new lifters. Kevin
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