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Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil
[Re: Instigate]
#1780001
03/15/15 11:11 AM
03/15/15 11:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
So what would cause a main or rod bearing to fail so soon? Is it likely that it was the machine shops fault? Bear in mind, they gave me the engine back with the rocker shafts backwards and rocker arms in the wrong places. Had two freeze plugs leak badly and need to be replaced. And they didn't bother to chase any threads from what I could see.
/I'm going to call the machine shop on Monday to tell them they need to take care of this.
In your valve train pic, are you using brass shims directly under your springs? I also notice your using a combo of behives and regular type springs.
It wouldn't hurt to inspect those as well. But, its more then likely bearings. From the filter pic, the deposits look like a lot.
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Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil
[Re: Instigate]
#1780003
03/15/15 11:37 AM
03/15/15 11:37 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,636
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,636
Rittman Ohio
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I take it you couldn't find a MOPAR specific engine builder in your area? Obviously this engine "builder" has zero experience with a Chrysler engine and should not be allowed to go near your engine again. Cut your losses and find a builder familiar with Chrysler engines  Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#1780004
03/15/15 12:32 PM
03/15/15 12:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,096
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,096
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Could have wiped the cam
Look at the photo ... its a roller cam.
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Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil
[Re: Stanton]
#1780005
03/15/15 12:39 PM
03/15/15 12:39 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,096
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,096
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Also looks like one of the gear teeth is nicked
I see the nick - right at the edge - looks lik it was hit with something hard. But I doubt that's an issue because you drive gear is steel and shows no wear.
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Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil
[Re: BSB67]
#1780010
03/15/15 01:49 PM
03/15/15 01:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 156
San Diego
Instigate
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 156
San Diego
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Quote:
A month ago several of us told you that this build had all the makings of a train wreck. Even though there were several major issues identified back then, you choose to fix them yourself, and not question the rest of the build, all the while talking about your warranty.
Probably time to exercise your warranty. Good Luck
I've been in contact with the shop every step of the way. I fixed the valve train issue because it was easy and I knew I would do it correctly. What were the other so called "Major Issues" that were identified? The only other issue was two leaky freeze plugs. I replaced one and it still leaked so I put an expansion plug in temporary and had the machine shop replace the two that were leaking. I checked the things I was told to check. There was nothing I could do but move forward. What would you suggest I should have done? The machine shop said to run it, so I did. If there was something wrong(which obviously there was)it would be on the machine shop. I've also been documenting everything in preparation for court if needed. So I don't understand where you get off implying I did something wrong. 
Quote:
/Does anyone know what they possibly did wrong?
Yes,They assembled your motor without any knowledge of how.
Haha
Quote:
Debris, improper clearance, out of round or tapered journals, lack of lubrication, main cap alignments or placement, bearing crush, or any combination of the above.
So, a lot of stuff.
Last edited by Instigate; 03/15/15 01:59 PM.
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Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil
[Re: Instigate]
#1780011
03/15/15 01:56 PM
03/15/15 01:56 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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I wish I was still in San Diego.
But I left there in 93.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#1780012
03/15/15 01:58 PM
03/15/15 01:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
B5 Bee
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
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Quote:
I take it you couldn't find a MOPAR specific engine builder in your area? Obviously this engine "builder" has zero experience with a Chrysler engine and should not be allowed to go near your engine again.
Cut your losses and find a builder familiar with Chrysler engines
Gus
A builder familiar with Chrysler engines will help but it's no guarantee.
I had similar debris in a new motor after 37 passes. Cam bearings had wiped out, the new ones had been installed by a well known Mopar engine builder. 
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Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil
[Re: B5 Bee]
#1780013
03/15/15 02:01 PM
03/15/15 02:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 156
San Diego
Instigate
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 156
San Diego
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Quote:
Quote:
I take it you couldn't find a MOPAR specific engine builder in your area? Obviously this engine "builder" has zero experience with a Chrysler engine and should not be allowed to go near your engine again.
Cut your losses and find a builder familiar with Chrysler engines
Gus
A builder familiar with Chrysler engines will help but it's no guarantee.
I had similar debris in a new motor after 37 passes. Cam bearings had wiped out, the new ones had been installed by a well known Mopar engine builder.
I see.
Quote:
I wish I was still in San Diego.
But I left there in 93.
I'm in North County. I love San Diego. Never want to move from this area.
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Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil
[Re: Instigate]
#1780014
03/15/15 02:46 PM
03/15/15 02:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,333
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,333
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
A month ago several of us told you that this build had all the makings of a train wreck. Even though there were several major issues identified back then, you choose to fix them yourself, and not question the rest of the build, all the while talking about your warranty.
Probably time to exercise your warranty. Good Luck
I've been in contact with the shop every step of the way. I fixed the valve train issue because it was easy and I knew I would do it correctly. What were the other so called "Major Issues" that were identified? The only other issue was two leaky freeze plugs. I replaced one and it still leaked so I put an expansion plug in temporary and had the machine shop replace the two that were leaking. I checked the things I was told to check. There was nothing I could do but move forward. What would you suggest I should have done? The machine shop said to run it, so I did. If there was something wrong(which obviously there was)it would be on the machine shop. I've also been documenting everything in preparation for court if needed. So I don't understand where you get off implying I did something wrong.
Rocker shafts on wrong, rocker arms on wrong, leaking freeze plugs. Collectively, they scream of complete incompetence.
You could be sitting here with a good running motor, and possibly a warranty claim, or what looks like a bad motor, and preparing yourself for a law suit. Even if you win the claim or suit, it is hard to imagine sitting with a motor full of metal the better path.
If you are pleased with your choices, that is all that matters.
I don't remember all of the posts, but did you say they ran the motor and broke it in? If so, was that with the rockers and shafts on wrong and freeze plug leaking?
How was your oil pressure for the time you had it running? I would think that you would have low oil pressure, and some motor and or lifter noise too.
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Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil
[Re: BSB67]
#1780015
03/15/15 03:14 PM
03/15/15 03:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 156
San Diego
Instigate
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 156
San Diego
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A month ago several of us told you that this build had all the makings of a train wreck. Even though there were several major issues identified back then, you choose to fix them yourself, and not question the rest of the build, all the while talking about your warranty.
Probably time to exercise your warranty. Good Luck
I've been in contact with the shop every step of the way. I fixed the valve train issue because it was easy and I knew I would do it correctly. What were the other so called "Major Issues" that were identified? The only other issue was two leaky freeze plugs. I replaced one and it still leaked so I put an expansion plug in temporary and had the machine shop replace the two that were leaking. I checked the things I was told to check. There was nothing I could do but move forward. What would you suggest I should have done? The machine shop said to run it, so I did. If there was something wrong(which obviously there was)it would be on the machine shop. I've also been documenting everything in preparation for court if needed. So I don't understand where you get off implying I did something wrong.
Rocker shafts on wrong, rocker arms on wrong, leaking freeze plugs. Collectively, they scream of complete incompetence.
You could be sitting here with a good running motor, and possibly a warranty claim, or what looks like a bad motor, and preparing yourself for a law suit. Even if you win the claim or suit, it is hard to imagine sitting with a motor full of metal the better path.
If you are pleased with your choices, that is all that matters.
I don't remember all of the posts, but did you say they ran the motor and broke it in? If so, was that with the rockers and shafts on wrong and freeze plug leaking?
How was your oil pressure for the time you had it running? I would think that you would have low oil pressure, and some motor and or lifter noise too.
So you list the valvetrain issue and the freeze plugs...I obviously fixed the valve train before running it and had the machine shop fix the freeze plugs before breaking it in. What are you even talking about? What could I have done to be sitting here with a good running motor?
"I would think that you would have low oil pressure, and some motor and or lifter noise too."
You would be thinking wrong. The oil pressure was good at all times and there was no noise.
/And I obviously wouldn't need to sue unless they tried to get out of fixing it.
Last edited by Instigate; 03/15/15 03:15 PM.
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Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil
[Re: Sport440]
#1780017
03/15/15 05:13 PM
03/15/15 05:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
So what would cause a main or rod bearing to fail so soon? Is it likely that it was the machine shops fault? Bear in mind, they gave me the engine back with the rocker shafts backwards and rocker arms in the wrong places. Had two freeze plugs leak badly and need to be replaced. And they didn't bother to chase any threads from what I could see.
/I'm going to call the machine shop on Monday to tell them they need to take care of this.
In your valve train pic, are you using brass shims directly under your springs? I also notice your using a combo of behives and regular type springs.
It wouldn't hurt to inspect those as well. But, its more then likely bearings. From the filter pic, the deposits look like a lot.
I believe what you're seeing is exhaust valve rotators, tipicaLLY USED ON TRUCK AND rv ENGINES.
tHE SPRINGS ARE ALL THE SAME.
eXHAUST VALVE ROTATORS ARE HEAVY AND NOT GOOD FOR HI RPM ENGINES. bUT FINE/NECESSARY FOR A EVERYDAY DRIVER OR A TRUCK OR rv.
To the OP,
Tuneup has everything to do with engine longevity. Jetting/fuel mixture/pressure and timing.
It it is not right, it can easily pound the rod bearings out of it in some cases. Then all the bearings get wasted because the rods bearing junk and ruins the main bearings.
Bet all the rod bearings fall out(no crush) and are down to there brass like material backs.
So please don't jump to the conclusion that the machine shop did some thing wrong right away other than them not getting the core plugs in leak free.
I would think the shop are not dummys. And bet they didn't take the rockers off the shafts and were like that when they got them? IMO even if you ran the rockers like that it would have been ok. Maybe not the best but would have survived in a low rpm truck motor. I ran my rockers mixed up years ago and it never hurt anything that I knew about before I knew better.
Sucks I know, 
Last edited by Challenger 1; 03/15/15 06:25 PM.
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