Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil

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What could I have done to be sitting here with a good running motor

Not much you could have done, did what you could.

Funny that you would actually believe that after getting a motor back from a shop and discovering that the entire valve train is installed incorrectly, and the freeze plugs leak, that common sense would not lead you to check the bearings.

Sure the OP did not do anything wrong. Unfortunately, it looks like he will either get his money back, or the same shop will fix this motor, and likely not without some anguish. Hardly a good outcome.

Honestly, good luck to the OP.

lol?

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Instigate, document EVERYTHING (you've already started), make a journal of all conversations/visits to the shop. KEEP the oil filter!!!

Then, if they continue to offer nothing,start taking your pictures around to other builders and solicit their recommendations---most, if not all will be quotes to correct the issues.

I predict you are heading to small claims court (that's a GOOD thing cause someone else is gonna fix your mill) and I predict a judge will quickly award the full $1400 back to you. Just my three cents.

For sure. I've been taking pictures all the way. And it's all documented on this board and RCC. So I can go back and remember what happened. I can totally see them trying to weasel out of this.

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It sounds like the mains or rods ate the big one.

I know you feel like they should rebuild it since they messed it up, but if they didn't do it right the first time will they do it right next time or just slap a patch on it.

It needs torn down, meticulously cleaned, and all new bearings, including cam bearings. The bores are probably OK but I wouldn't reuse the rings. You will need to clean all the rocker shaft components and the shafts just in case any of that brass made it into those areas.

If they are telling you to run it a little more then I doubt they will take the time to clean it well enough and replace all the parts that may have embedded particles in them.

Sorry for the trouble.

Hope they make it right.

I know it. I know it. I do NOT feel good about taking it back to those idiots. But like I said before, I don't have the money to just pay someone else to do this job I've already paid for and I don't have the luxury of time to do it myself. If time wasn't a factor I would have done it all myself and just had the machine work sub'd. So unfortunately I feel like I have no choice but to run it some more like the fool says and when I change the oil again and it's the same they're going to have to rebuild it. And all I can do i hope that they care enough about it not coming back to do it right. I realize in their mind they're trying to get it out with loosing as little money as possible and yes, they will try to cut corners. But what can I do? If I don't do as they suggest it would hurt my case I think. I want to be able to say I tried to let them resolve it.

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Only go to TJ to get your vinyl top replaced, not to get an engine rebuilt. Sorry to see the trouble you're having. I've been through the same thing 25 years ago, live and learn.

San Diego is not TJ..

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/15/15 09:09 PM

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What could I have done to be sitting here with a good running motor

Not much you could have done, did what you could.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/15/15 10:13 PM

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So what would cause a main or rod bearing to fail so soon? Is it likely that it was the machine shops fault? Bear in mind, they gave me the engine back with the rocker shafts backwards and rocker arms in the wrong places. Had two freeze plugs leak badly and need to be replaced. And they didn't bother to chase any threads from what I could see.

/I'm going to call the machine shop on Monday to tell them they need to take care of this.

In your valve train pic, are you using brass shims directly under your springs? I also notice your using a combo of behives and regular type springs.
It wouldn't hurt to inspect those as well. But, its more then likely bearings. From the filter pic, the deposits look like a lot.

I believe what you're seeing is exhaust valve rotators, tipicaLLY USED ON TRUCK AND rv ENGINES.

tHE SPRINGS ARE ALL THE SAME.

eXHAUST VALVE ROTATORS ARE HEAVY AND NOT GOOD FOR HI RPM ENGINES. bUT FINE/NECESSARY FOR A EVERYDAY DRIVER OR A TRUCK OR rv.

To the OP,

Tuneup has everything to do with engine longevity. Jetting/fuel mixture/pressure and timing.
It it is not right, it can easily pound the rod bearings out of it in some cases. Then all the bearings get wasted because the rods bearing junk and ruins the main bearings.

Bet all the rod bearings fall out(no crush) and are down to there brass like material backs.

So please don't jump to the conclusion that the machine shop did some thing wrong right away other than them not getting the core plugs in leak free.

I would think the shop are not dummys. And bet they didn't take the rockers off the shafts and were like that when they got them? IMO even if you ran the rockers like that it would have been ok. Maybe not the best but would have survived in a low rpm truck motor. I ran my rockers mixed up years ago and it never hurt anything that I knew about before I knew better.

Sucks I know,

Posted By: Sport440

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/16/15 12:21 AM

Chally if those are rotators as you suspect, you cant use them with brass shims undernieth the springs. The shims will ate up in short order.

OP, take a valve covers off and see if you see signs of the shim spacers being ate up.

Maybe the bearings are fine/were and the excess metal is from the shims. ???

Posted By: Instigate

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/16/15 12:38 AM

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Chally if those are rotators as you suspect, you cant use them with brass shims undernieth the springs. The shims will ate up in short order.

OP, take a valve covers off and see if you see signs of the shim spacers being ate up.

Maybe the bearings are fine/were and the excess metal is from the shims. ???

Yeah, I'll try that Monday unless the machine shop just wants to tow it somewhere right away. But, say that it is the shim spacers. Would the engine still need to be torn back down? Because with all that metal in the oil, wouldn't it lead to other components failing?

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What could I have done to be sitting here with a good running motor

Not much you could have done, did what you could.

That's what I thought. I don't know why these guys want to defend this machine shop. I followed every instruction to the tee.

Posted By: Sport440

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/16/15 12:43 AM

Yes, even it the metal was from the shims, its circulated by now and the bearings will be marked up as well.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/16/15 12:49 AM

But don't think the shims are brass, brass colored yes but not brass.

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/16/15 01:13 AM

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I believe what you're seeing is exhaust valve rotators, tipicaLLY USED ON TRUCK AND rv ENGINES.

tHE SPRINGS ARE ALL THE SAME.

The springs are not all the same. The exhaust springs with rotators are a different size and have pressure differences.

Posted By: Sport440

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/16/15 01:22 AM

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But don't think the shims are brass, brass colored yes but not brass.

Not sure myself,, ---- I have some, just checked, they are steel with a copper or brass like colored coating.

Not nearly enough to cause the amount of flakes in the filter. Must be bearing material in the filter.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/16/15 01:49 AM

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I believe what you're seeing is exhaust valve rotators, tipicaLLY USED ON TRUCK AND rv ENGINES.

tHE SPRINGS ARE ALL THE SAME.

The springs are not all the same. The exhaust springs with rotators are a different size and have pressure differences.

I stand corrected, I think the exhaust springs have slightly shorter installed height because the rotators are thicker.

I not familer with magnum heads like the OP has. I have rebuilt 2 360s that had them in a RV and a hd work van. This was in the early 80s and my memory is not crystal clear. I installed RV cams in both engines and used the springs that came with the cams and both motors ran for more than 10 years after. A small RV cam don't have enough lift to cause coil bind using the rotators with all the same springs on the motors I rebuilt. I drove one for over 100K miles after my boss drove the van for 200K miles before I got it with fresh heads and a RV cam.

Posted By: Stanton

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/16/15 02:10 AM

Guys, have you ever looked at a selection of valve spring shims ??? They come in a vast array of colours - what you see being one of them! They are not brass or copper but gold irridite or zinc dichromate plated steel to prevent rust - like the one's in the photo. Really, do you think anyone would make a valve spring shim out of a metal as soft as brass or copper, c'mon, smarten up !!

Attached picture 8461311-081202132038.JPG

Attached picture 8461311-081202132038.JPG

Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/16/15 04:34 AM

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In the picture where looking down @ the bushing, it looks like it is worn on the face. The intermediate shafts looks shiny under gear as if the two were rubbing together. May be just the picture though.

The two should rub together - it's designed to be a wear surface.

That bushing has 2 functions:
(1) to keep the intermediate shaft centerline the correct distance from the cam centerline, so the gears tooth mesh is the correct depth.

(2) To support the intermediate shaft - the rotation of the cam, the pitch of the teeth, and the resistance of the oil pump push the intermediate shaft down onto the bushing.

If the bushing isn't seated fully - when the distributor is tightened down, it could force the intermediate shaft down onto the bushing with excessive pressure, and gall it before it has a chance to break in. It can also break the nylon(?) bushing at the bottom of the dist housing that keeps the dist shaft engaged into the intermediate shaft.

As to the spring seat insert damage. Single valve spring's inserts are usually only damaged by valve float letting the spring bounce around. With multiple springs, they get damaged by valve float, or because the multiple springs rotate in different directions when compressed, and require hardened seat inserts and retainers because of the resulting wear. Since VSI and other insert makers list specific hardened inserts for performance apps, I would guess that the stock ones are somewhat softer. I've seen inserts listed in catalogs as "copper" before, but it didn't specify if that was referring to color or material.

Posted By: rowin4

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/16/15 06:35 AM

It was noted by the OP that the oil was black within the 40 miles put on the vehicle. Nothing says burnt oil than to tight of tolerances. The intermediate bushing might not have been seated completely,wear is shown in the picture . Might be some of the brass, probably wouldn't turn the oil black. I would look at the bearings. Good luck with the engine builder. The building of a engine , any engine requires knowledge of tolerances, and proper assembly, it doesn't matter if it is a Chevy, Ford, Mopar or Briggs&Stratton . There's know excuse nowadays with the internet, you can look up anything you need to know, even proper rocker arm assembly. So with that being said, if you did all the right things upon startup and the engine still took a $hit be prepared . Write down everything you found wrong right off and made the engine builder aware of. What you did to correct the problems. Did you follow correct priming and break in procedures. Who told you what to do and how to do it.

Posted By: Instigate

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/16/15 08:25 AM

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It was noted by the OP that the oil was black within the 40 miles put on the vehicle. Nothing says burnt oil than to tight of tolerances. The intermediate bushing might not have been seated completely,wear is shown in the picture . Might be some of the brass, probably wouldn't turn the oil black. I would look at the bearings. Good luck with the engine builder. The building of a engine , any engine requires knowledge of tolerances, and proper assembly, it doesn't matter if it is a Chevy, Ford, Mopar or Briggs&Stratton . There's know excuse nowadays with the internet, you can look up anything you need to know, even proper rocker arm assembly. So with that being said, if you did all the right things upon startup and the engine still took a $hit be prepared . Write down everything you found wrong right off and made the engine builder aware of. What you did to correct the problems. Did you follow correct priming and break in procedures. Who told you what to do and how to do it.

Yes I followed all proper procedures. RapidRobert on here informed me on the best way to prime the engine. The engine builder told me to just put oil in the oil pump and don't bother priming it but I went ahead and did the priming procedure. I also got break in advice from Robert and others on here and on RamChargerCentral. I also did my own research online. But what I was being told was the standard stuff. I followed every instruction to the tee. This might be the first engine I've broken in, but I'm no stranger to automotive technology. I've been working doing mechanic work for 3 years, and a year of school before that. Not a huge amount of time but enough.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post8401865

Posted By: Instigate

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/16/15 09:19 PM

The genius at the machine shop says to run it more...

I am without words.

Posted By: 68LAR

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/16/15 09:38 PM

Something to think about...
A machine shop machinist doesn't make him an engine builder... Definitely two different mechanics that are not always the same....
Take it back to the machine shop and have them make right the damage and find yourself an engine builder to assemble it, or do it yourself, if you have that ability....

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/16/15 09:43 PM

My advice? Pull it.

Usually when something like this happens there is never a happy ending. Bite the bullet and yank it out and investigate.

Posted By: JL2

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/16/15 11:52 PM

I recently went through this same problem. I first noticed my fresh engine oil would look cooked after a short drive then I noticed my crank floating with .080 end play with less than 100 miles on a fresh build. I pulled the oil pan and checked the mains and they looked like 250,000 miles were ran on it and the thrust bearing was totally washed. Bill (Wild Child) Doucet found that the wrong bearings were used on the build. The mains that were used did not have the proper chamfer for my crank to flow the oil, they were more for the stock crank. He fixed my problem on the bottom end, now I'm busting transmissions. Good luck.

Posted By: Instigate

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/17/15 02:05 AM

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Something to think about...
A machine shop machinist doesn't make him an engine builder... Definitely two different mechanics that are not always the same....
Take it back to the machine shop and have them make right the damage and find yourself an engine builder to assemble it, or do it yourself, if you have that ability....

I've only done one full rebuild of an engine and that was in school. But I bet I could do it. It's just the time. I'm sure it would take me longer to do it being that I've only done one before. But the thing is, I've already paid $1400 to have it done. I'm not going to pay someone else to do the job I've already paid one person to do. They're going to have to fix whatever they messed up.

Posted By: gregn96cuda

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/17/15 02:55 AM

Only go to TJ to get your vinyl top replaced, not to get an engine rebuilt. Sorry to see the trouble you're having. I've been through the same thing 25 years ago, live and learn.

Posted By: IMGTX

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/17/15 03:19 AM

It sounds like the mains or rods ate the big one.

I know you feel like they should rebuild it since they messed it up, but if they didn't do it right the first time will they do it right next time or just slap a patch on it.

It needs torn down, meticulously cleaned, and all new bearings, including cam bearings. The bores are probably OK but I wouldn't reuse the rings. You will need to clean all the rocker shaft components and the shafts just in case any of that brass made it into those areas.

If they are telling you to run it a little more then I doubt they will take the time to clean it well enough and replace all the parts that may have embedded particles in them.

Sorry for the trouble.

Hope they make it right.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/17/15 03:21 AM

Instigate, document EVERYTHING (you've already started), make a journal of all conversations/visits to the shop. KEEP the oil filter!!!

Then, if they continue to offer nothing,start taking your pictures around to other builders and solicit their recommendations---most, if not all will be quotes to correct the issues.

I predict you are heading to small claims court (that's a GOOD thing cause someone else is gonna fix your mill) and I predict a judge will quickly award the full $1400 back to you. Just my three cents.

Posted By: BSB67

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/17/15 04:06 AM

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What could I have done to be sitting here with a good running motor

Not much you could have done, did what you could.

Funny that you would actually believe that after getting a motor back from a shop and discovering that the entire valve train is installed incorrectly, and the freeze plugs leak, that common sense would not lead you to check the bearings.

Sure the OP did not do anything wrong. Unfortunately, it looks like he will either get his money back, or the same shop will fix this motor, and likely not without some anguish. Hardly a good outcome.

Honestly, good luck to the OP.

Posted By: zrxkawboy

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/17/15 05:45 AM

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And all I can do i hope that they care enough about it not coming back to do it right. I realize in their mind they're trying to get it out with loosing as little money as possible and yes, they will try to cut corners.

Sorry, but I don't see this shop doing it right. Look how bad they bungled it the first time, when they were being paid. The second time around, when they're doing it on their dime...

Posted By: rowin4

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/17/15 06:40 AM

I guess what I would do then is pull the pan and inspect some of the bearings to see what they look like. If they don't look like new take them down to the machine shop and have them look at them or take pictures of the crank and bearing surface. With those miles they should look new, no scratches or wear.If it looks bad , call a tow truck and deliver it to them.

Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/17/15 06:50 AM

I have several thoughts about this but not enough time to post. I will say try to get as much back from him without going to court. Use that money to buy a junkyard mill and hope for the best while you find a real machine shop. Not sure how this one has stayed open.

maybe a front for drug operation/money laundering.

Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/17/15 01:10 PM

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My advice? Pull it.

Usually when something like this happens there is never a happy ending. Bite the bullet and yank it out and investigate.

I couldn't agree more. We can try to bench race this to death but until a main and rod cap gets pulled, nobody is going to know what is going on. As others have mentioned, the amount of brass in the filter and the minimal wear on the intermediate shaft bushing points to a bearing problem. There is no doubt in my mind the bearings are toast. Why? Again, won't know until it's torn down and even then the cause may not be obvious. It's like looking at a catastrophic overspeed failure, what went first? Who knows.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/17/15 04:59 PM

Just me, what I would do is let them do it over. The threat of legal action likely will force them to do it right but I would not go that route up front. I would assume they have the knowledge to go it correctly but they put a newbie on it for some reason & pretty much fubared the rebuild or something (its hard to second guess peoples' motives). You do not have the money or time or desire to take it somwhere else. I would give them the chance to rectify it & very likely you will get a meticulous job this time (their a$$ is on the line). From what I have observed locally small claims court/lawyers/lawsuits take forever & cost more in time/anquish & still hard to get your money (small claims court) & is a good plan only in some cases. I've heard that alot of dealerships even have a percentage number for the number of comebacks they anticipate having to correct in a fiscal year & how much that will cost them. Most customers dont stand up for themselves & if you are one of the ones that do they will (very) likely take care of you. Firm/no shouting constant regular pressure is the key. cool/calm/regular contact/firm/non threatening insistance. You're an actor and you have a part to play. Good luck with it & post how it turns out. On a side note what I have seen that works in severe cases is an ad in the paper badmouthing their service/parking a lemon car in front of their dealership/demonstrating with a sign in front of their business on the sidewalk (demonstration? permit may be required)

. Good luck bro

Posted By: IMGTX

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/17/15 07:42 PM

I think you have been beat up enough over not going back to them.

I understand you are in a pinch and have to.

I suggest that after they get it back to you Do the following.

1. Rotate the crank and check for binding before you do anything else.

2. Pop at least 1 main (preferably all) and a rod (Preferably all) and use plastigauge to check clearances. I know platiguage isn't the preferred method but it will be good as a secondary checking tool.

3. Check crankshaft endplay.

4. Take a rocker arm off and check for any brass remnants in the shaft and the arms.

5. Disassemble the oil pump and check for brass filings

6. Meticulously clean or preferable replace the pickup.

All that should take about an hour or two.

In a perfect world I would pull the cam and check those bearing but that is an extra hour or two.

If anything is wrong fix it or get them to fix it before break in. A couple hours may save yourself a lot of time and effort in the long run.

Again I hope it goes well and they make it right and this thread was just unnecessary stress.

Posted By: skicker

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/17/15 08:09 PM

Keep the info you've learned to yourself when talking to the machine shop. Let them figure out what went wrong. In all honesty they may work with you and they may not. Trying to sue and threaten a civil case will just muddy the waters and you will spend more than $1400.00 anyway. Then there's the hassle and the BS. of he said...he said in court. If your time is worth anything pick-up another motor and put it in while you try and workout what's wrong with this one.

In todays society you might as well roll over and play dead...40 years ago he would have taken an a$$ whippin for what's been done. Gee isn't society so much better...

Posted By: Instigate

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/17/15 08:38 PM

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Keep the info you've learned to yourself when talking to the machine shop. Let them figure out what went wrong. In all honesty they may work with you and they may not. Trying to sue and threaten a civil case will just muddy the waters and you will spend more than $1400.00 anyway. Then there's the hassle and the BS. of he said...he said in court. If your time is worth anything pick-up another motor and put it in while you try and workout what's wrong with this one.

In todays society you might as well roll over and play dead...40 years ago he would have taken an a$$ whippin for what's been done. Gee isn't society so much better...

I wouldn't waste my time with a civil case. Costs more, takes more time, and I would be looking at getting a lawyer to help with all the bs. But I've been in small claims before and it's cheap, fast and I represent myself. It's only a $30 filing fee for anything under $1500.

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Just me, what I would do is let them do it over. The threat of legal action likely will force them to do it right but I would not go that route up front. I would assume they have the knowledge to go it correctly but they put a newbie on it for some reason & pretty much fubared the rebuild or something (its hard to second guess peoples' motives). You do not have the money or time or desire to take it somwhere else. I would give them the chance to rectify it & very likely you will get a meticulous job this time (their a$$ is on the line). From what I have observed locally small claims court/lawyers/lawsuits take forever & cost more in time/anquish & still hard to get your money (small claims court) & is a good plan only in some cases. I've heard that alot of dealerships even have a percentage number for the number of comebacks they anticipate having to correct in a fiscal year & how much that will cost them. Most customers dont stand up for themselves & if you are one of the ones that do they will (very) likely take care of you. Firm/no shouting constant regular pressure is the key. cool/calm/regular contact/firm/non threatening insistance. You're an actor and you have a part to play. Good luck with it & post how it turns out. On a side note what I have seen that works in severe cases is an ad in the paper badmouthing their service/parking a lemon car in front of their dealership/demonstrating with a sign in front of their business on the sidewalk (demonstration? permit may be required) . Good luck bro

For sure. I haven't said a word about small claims to them and I wouldn't until I was sure I would have to go that route. I've won in small claims before and I realize it can be difficult to get the money you have been awarded. I won against a person I was renting a room from for my deposit. I won, but I never got the money. But that is my own fault. I just never went back to the courhouse to file the needed paperwork to get the person's wages garnished.

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/18/15 12:01 AM

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For sure. I haven't said a word about small claims to them and I wouldn't until I was sure I would have to go that route. I've won in small claims before and I realize it can be difficult to get the money you have been awarded. I won against a person I was renting a room from for my deposit. I won, but I never got the money. But that is my own fault. I just never went back to the courhouse to file the needed paperwork to get the person's wages garnished.

Hmm, funny how states do things different. When my daughter went into the Army she sold off a bunch of stuff. Part of it was to a coworker, her manager, who ended up welching on paying. Wife had the power of attorney, took her to court, won, filed the paper for the sheriff to come collect. Sheriff simply collected enough items to auction off for enough to pay the debt.

All she had to do was pay what she owed us, but ended up paying that, court fees, sheriff;'s fees and lost big time.

Posted By: Instigate

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/18/15 12:23 AM

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For sure. I haven't said a word about small claims to them and I wouldn't until I was sure I would have to go that route. I've won in small claims before and I realize it can be difficult to get the money you have been awarded. I won against a person I was renting a room from for my deposit. I won, but I never got the money. But that is my own fault. I just never went back to the courhouse to file the needed paperwork to get the person's wages garnished.

Hmm, funny how states do things different. When my daughter went into the Army she sold off a bunch of stuff. Part of it was to a coworker, her manager, who ended up welching on paying. Wife had the power of attorney, took her to court, won, filed the paper for the sheriff to come collect. Sheriff simply collected enough items to auction off for enough to pay the debt.

All she had to do was pay what she owed us, but ended up paying that, court fees, sheriff;'s fees and lost big time.

OMG that's crazy. I haven't heard of that kind of thing going on here. As far as I know police only take property like that in drug related cases around here. But I recently heard that they're not allowed to do asset forfeiture anymore.

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/18/15 12:31 AM

Well, there is a more involved and detailed process to get to that point, which we had to go thru. But ultimately, we got our money and the deadbeat may have learned a lesson. If you are interested here's a link to the process, it's a 171 page .pdf of the rules and process.

http://www.txsheriffs.org/content/CP_Manual.pdf

Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/18/15 12:08 PM

With the amount of debris I see in the filter - the engine is hurt, and not going to "fix" itself and needs to come out for repair.

The damage could have started at the intermediate shaft bushing, from debris in the oiling system, a nicked crank, etc. and carried through the system. And realistically, if the old motor failed from spun bearings, there could have been that much debris left in the oiling passages if they didn't properly hot tank and prep the block. Might be hard to pinpoint the root cause at this point.

I understand being on a budget, and this isn't intended to be insulting, but I keep reading about the engine being "rebuilt" for $1400 - I'm curious about what "rebuilt" means at that shop.

Reason I say that is in this area - Southern Mi - you wouldn't get an engine torn down, rebuilt, and assembled (even wrong LOL) for anywhere near $1400. For $1400 you wouldn't get any real MACHINE work done - you might get a basic hot tank, ball hone, and the rings, bearings, timing chain, oil pump and gaskets replaced job, along with the valves and seats ground, etc. But that is far from being "rebuilt". It surely WOULDN'T INCLUDE - boring cylinders, new pistons, align honing, reconditioning rods, grinding crank, deck/head milling, valve guide work, thread cleaning/repair, crack detection, etc. - the things that are usually expected to be done if an engine is getting a quality rebuild.

I hope you can get the "vendor" to step up and make their work right, because you should be able to get a sealed up and functioning engine back for $1400, assuming no hard parts were broken in the core engine, and no real "machine" work was needed.

Posted By: Instigate

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/18/15 09:21 PM

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With the amount of debris I see in the filter - the engine is hurt, and not going to "fix" itself and needs to come out for repair.

The damage could have started at the intermediate shaft bushing, from debris in the oiling system, a nicked crank, etc. and carried through the system. And realistically, if the old motor failed from spun bearings, there could have been that much debris left in the oiling passages if they didn't properly hot tank and prep the block. Might be hard to pinpoint the root cause at this point.

I understand being on a budget, and this isn't intended to be insulting, but I keep reading about the engine being "rebuilt" for $1400 - I'm curious about what "rebuilt" means at that shop.

Reason I say that is in this area - Southern Mi - you wouldn't get an engine torn down, rebuilt, and assembled (even wrong LOL) for anywhere near $1400. For $1400 you wouldn't get any real MACHINE work done - you might get a basic hot tank, ball hone, and the rings, bearings, timing chain, oil pump and gaskets replaced job, along with the valves and seats ground, etc. But that is far from being "rebuilt". It surely WOULDN'T INCLUDE - boring cylinders, new pistons, align honing, reconditioning rods, grinding crank, deck/head milling, valve guide work, thread cleaning/repair, crack detection, etc. - the things that are usually expected to be done if an engine is getting a quality rebuild.

I hope you can get the "vendor" to step up and make their work right, because you should be able to get a sealed up and functioning engine back for $1400, assuming no hard parts were broken in the core engine, and no real "machine" work was needed.

I got several quotes for long block rebuilds and they were all between $1400-$2000. I was told it was going to be a full rebuild. I was not given specifics. And my receipt doesn't have a detailed parts list. Which is in violation of the Automotive Repair Act so besides small claims I could have the Bureau of Automotive Repair on them.

The old motor didn't fail from a spun bearing, it's cam lift was way under spec and when I opened it up to put a new cam in I decided to just have it rebuilt. Had 300,000 miles on it. I didn't want to put the cam in it then need to have the lower end dealt with who knows when. Seems now I would have been better off just putting a cam and lifters in and call it good. But all I can do now is try to correct this situation I'm in. I know you're right in thinking they cut corners to give a cheap price. I noticed that they failed to chase some of the threads on the heads. So ya, I'm concerned about that but like Robert said their ass is on the line to do it right this time.

Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/20/15 01:17 PM

Quote:

...... their ass is on the line to do it right this time.

Hmm. It's been my experience that the only way a poor marksman hits the bullseye is by sheer luck. And that only after a number of failed attempts.

Posted By: bboogieart

Re: Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil - 03/21/15 12:51 AM

I have been waiting for someone to mention the price.
Seemed way low to me.
On the thought of them telling you to just run it.
I'm leaning towards a voided warrenty.
They will just deny telling you that.
I wouldn't trust that shop with my lawn mower.
Here's wishing for the best.

Rebuilt Engine - Brass flakes in oil