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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1752427
02/16/15 04:51 AM
02/16/15 04:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
DoctorDiff
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
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"Here you go, right here. These are legit prices"
Brad asked for an apples to apples comparison, so I gave him one based on the assembly price quoted in YOUR POST - same parts, same manufacturer.
For the reason I mentioned in my previous post, a 35 spline 9" Detroit Locker is not in the same league as a 35 spline Dana 60 Detroit Locker or S-Trac.
The only 9" traction differential that compares (strength wise) is an S-Trac ($) or Wave-Trac ($$)
For the sake of argument:
Strange sheetmetal housing with ends welded on - $525.00
Strange Pro HD center section with a spool, 4.10 gear, and billet yoke - $1245.00
Upgrade to Detroit Locker $300
Strange axles with bearings and 5/8 studs - $515.00
TOTAL $2585
Note, the cost of a 9" built with a sloppy Detroit Locker is still greater than an S-60 built with a tight/smooth S-Trac differential.
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1752429
02/16/15 08:23 AM
02/16/15 08:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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That wasn't me replying, Cab.
Sorry, I would have sworn your name was on Quicktrees post   , What say you Quicktree, where the bull in my statement?
the whole dang thing, Monte pretty much explained why!
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: Quicktree]
#1752430
02/16/15 12:29 PM
02/16/15 12:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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That wasn't me replying, Cab.
Sorry, I would have sworn your name was on Quicktrees post , What say you Quicktree, where the bull in my statement?
the whole dang thing, Monte pretty much explained why!
People can and will put what ever they want under the
back of their car.. but what bugs me is the Dana being
a mopar rear... its not... its just BOUGHT by mopar
to put under the higher torque cars... I opted to
go with the 9" this time on the street rod because
I had a housing and a empty nodular center and I can
back brace it to the ends like shown.. and it has
radials so I'm looking for a dead hook... also the 9"
is lighter and I added enough weight elsewhere that
I needed the weight help... no matter what the difference
is.. it all adds up
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: justinp61]
#1752431
02/16/15 01:28 PM
02/16/15 01:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Now Doc there's no point bringing reason into the discussion. 
Why is that reasoning. His center is still priced at $1700 and I found the same thing, in two minutes for $1200. So a Dana Locker is great, a Ford Locker is sloppy? Aren't they the same design? One just a bit larger than the other.
The ONLY point to be considered here, is that the Ford rear does NOT cost a LOT more money if you shop around...........which is always the narrative when this discussion appears. Think it has been pointed out with some real world pricing this time
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: Quicktree]
#1752433
02/16/15 02:00 PM
02/16/15 02:00 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Never fails, the comparisons ALWAYS go to this kind of ridiculous crap, instead of keeping it relevant to the topic at hand. Lets never let facts get in the way of a good loyalty questioning..........LOL!!!
I did ask in my first post to keep it to the facts... but I can't control the weather, either.
One of the problems w/ coming up w/ an apples-to-apples comparison is there are so many options for 9" stuff that I don't know what's adequate (or comparable to an S-60) for the application to price it out.
Also, I really have to approach this as buying a new assembly from a vendor, rather than piecing something together on my own. My time constraints just to get an engine back together, etc., are tight enough as it is.
Trying to figure out what I need with the ford 9
1 a nodular iron centre section.
2 Pinion support.
3 Back braced housing.
I'm I missing anything?
I have a strange iron nodular housing with big pinion support, Lenco Billet locker 4.10 gears brand new. probably one of the best street/strip set ups around. the Billet locker is over $800 bucks by it's self. I will make you a heck of a deal and maybe work out a trade for you rockers 
You have a PM
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#1752436
02/16/15 04:29 PM
02/16/15 04:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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What 9" center did I price at $1700?
Please post a link to this $1200 9" third-member equipped with a 35 spline traction differential.
All Detroit Lockers are sloppy because they have 1/8" internal lash before the ratchet mechanism engages.
I said you can get a S-60 equipped with a high-end, smooth, quiet S-Trac differential for LESS money than a comparable 9" rear built with a sloppy Detroit Locker. As a bonus, the Dana 60 S-Trac is stronger.
With about a 2 minute Google search, I found a "kit" that includes a Nodular center, Daytona pinion support, bearing kit, billet yoke, pinion nut. Basically everything other than gear and Locker for $495. Then I found a complete 35 spline "locker" assy for $500. That puts the total at $995. "Street" gear can be had for what......$200-$250. That puts a complete, ready to go Nodular center, good support, 35 spline locker and street gear for less than $1300 unless my math is wrong..........which it isn't. Is it an "out of the box" ready to bolt in center, No, you would have to put it together. Ok, you don't want to put it together. Buy the parts and have somebody assemble it. That's gonna cost what......another $100.............it's still a good deal.
When the other guy posted what he paid for his center, which without going back, I think he said $1250ish...........then you said "add $805" for the Strange locker. So really that was closer to $2000 and I said $1700.......my bad.
As I have already said, I could care less which rear anybody puts under their car. Makes NO difference to me..........but when it is REPEATEDLY claimed that a Ford of comparable assy costs WAY more money than a Dana, I am repeatedly going to point out that is NOT true. As with anything else, you shop around, you can find deals.
We always see threads, who has the best price on this, who has the best price on that, why would diff parts be any different. All the Dana guys always point at the highest price Ford parts and say "see, it's way higher".........when that is not the case with some shopping around. Just because a complete Pro-Mod center from Mark Williams is around $3000, does not mean every center section costs that much.
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#1752437
02/16/15 07:18 PM
02/16/15 07:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
To clarify, the Strange S-trac is stronger than the Lenco billet locker in a 9"? Thanks. S/F....Ken M
not real sure about, thats opinion like everything else.
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#1752439
02/16/15 10:59 PM
02/16/15 10:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Wow 4 pages in and Monte thinks he knows more about rear axles than Cass does
I like Cass but I know Monte is one of the most knowledgeable racers on the board. Monte gets my vote any day. no offense to Cass it's just the way you brought it up. remember Monte is out in the field everyday dealing with these things he knows what works and what doesn't. he also knows the real world cost. you can build a 9 dirt cheap if you try and know how.plenty of used good parts like carriers etc.
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1752440
02/16/15 11:09 PM
02/16/15 11:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 487
Charleston, SC
SCDaytona
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 487
Charleston, SC
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I beg to differ on the weights of a 727 versus a TH400 or Ford C6, three drums versus two  904 parts in many, many SS race car trans  Monte, I'm only trying to keep it true and honest   
All I know, is that our fully race prepped 400 in a Reid case, weighs 5lbs more than the fully prepped, Reid cased powerglide it replaced. Both are CONSIDERABLY lighter than the fully raced prepped, alum drum 727, with CSI shield, that I still have from my own car. Yep, 904 stuff can be light, but that is usually in lower power, or small block, lightweight Comp eliminator cars, that those combinations live. Put it behind big block power and see how it lasts.
Again, it is about what is BEST for the application. You can't compare apples to zebras..........LOL!!!
Monte
Interesting weight difference. My proflite is lighter than my full JW case PG trans by a few pounds. As far as the big blocks go, many of the SS Hemi cars use them as well as some big block comp cars using Pro stock power. Lonny Johnson comes to mind and last I spoke with him, his had over 150 runs without touching it. I know they will not hold up to the power of a pro mod but as you said,what is best for the application.
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#1752441
02/17/15 02:04 AM
02/17/15 02:04 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Wow 4 pages in and Monte thinks he knows more about rear axles than Cass does
Point out where I said THAT. All I said was I could find the parts cheaper than he quoted. What, you think Strange is the only people who make this crap. But as far as the prices of stuff I quoted........Google is your friend, look it up, see for yourself. I KNOW what the stuff can be built for, because I used to do it everyday and still sell a lot of parts.
As far as knowing about rear ends. I used to run a chassis shop. We built stockers to Pro-Mods. So I have built a rear or two. Be it Dana, Ford, Olds, 12 bolt.............whatever. Do I know more than Cass about various rears........probably not, as that is his business.
Cass doesn't like the Ford Locker............that's fine. It's his opinion and he is entitled to it. Personally, I have never broken one, never broke a Track Loc in a Dana either.
For clarification, NEVER had a problem with a DANA, other than bending tubes...........and ALL this bullsh%t goes back to what I said 3 or 4 pages ago. Dana is a fine rear, just not the best for every application on the planet
Monte
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: SCDaytona]
#1752442
02/17/15 02:08 AM
02/17/15 02:08 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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I beg to differ on the weights of a 727 versus a TH400 or Ford C6, three drums versus two 904 parts in many, many SS race car trans Monte, I'm only trying to keep it true and honest
All I know, is that our fully race prepped 400 in a Reid case, weighs 5lbs more than the fully prepped, Reid cased powerglide it replaced. Both are CONSIDERABLY lighter than the fully raced prepped, alum drum 727, with CSI shield, that I still have from my own car. Yep, 904 stuff can be light, but that is usually in lower power, or small block, lightweight Comp eliminator cars, that those combinations live. Put it behind big block power and see how it lasts.
Again, it is about what is BEST for the application. You can't compare apples to zebras..........LOL!!!
Monte
Interesting weight difference. My proflite is lighter than my full JW case PG trans by a few pounds. As far as the big blocks go, many of the SS Hemi cars use them as well as some big block comp cars using Pro stock power. Lonny Johnson comes to mind and last I spoke with him, his had over 150 runs without touching it. I know they will not hold up to the power of a pro mod but as you said,what is best for the application.
Don't doubt that..........the JW case and bell is quite a bit heavier than the Reid stuff.
Monte
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1752443
02/17/15 01:58 PM
02/17/15 01:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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I would always go to Cass for stuff if his price was even close to the ball park. I can drive down there and ask for stuff and he makes sure I have every nut, bolt, shim... you name it, whatever I need he hands it to me tells me how to set it up to last and that extra few bucks is worth it in knowledge and time saved. If he told me I need an 8.75 Dana or 9inch for a customers car I would just do what he tells me, he knows what parts he has sold and what breaks and what don't.
If I ever need nitrous stuff I will call Monte, I would expect to pay a little more than if I pieced it all together off flea-bay but I bet he would know all the little stuff I would need and give me some good feedback on setting it up. It would probably save me more in time than it would cost in extra because I was dealing with a pro.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1752444
02/17/15 02:15 PM
02/17/15 02:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
DoctorDiff
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
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I guess I need to refresh your memory about what I actually posted in response to YOUR original post, quoting race 9" pricing from Strange Engineeering. I didn't pick Strange, YOU DID!
Because the OP specifically said NO spool, I priced a bolt-in S-9 and S-60 street/strip assembly for comparison purposes:
New Strange-60 Dana 60 assy, forged steel 1350 yoke, choice of ratio, Strange-Trac differential and 35 spline axles complete with leaf spring perches installed $2225
New Strange-9" nodular iron case, aluminum pinion support, forged steel 1350 yoke, choice of ratio, Strange-Trac differential, 35 spline axles, fab housing with short back brace and leaf spring perches installed $3175
The price difference is $950. Both assemblies are built by Strange, with the SAME parts. Both are bolt-in units, both have the same axles, both have iron centers and forged yokes. BOTH HAVE THE SAME HIGH-END S-TRAC DIFFERENTIAL installed.
Because you have a problem comparing apples to apples, I updated the price quoted in YOUR POST with the LEAST EXPENSIVE 9" 35 spline traction differential available (Detroit Locker). This is the exact quote from your post, only substituting the spool for a Detroit Locker from Strange:
Strange sheetmetal housing with ends welded on - $525.00
Strange Pro HD center section with a spool, 4.10 gear, and billet yoke - $1245.00
Upgrade to Detroit Locker $300 ($1545 third-member cost)
Strange axles with bearings and 5/8 studs - $515.00
TOTAL $2585
Of course, you can pick the cheapest imported 9" components, coupled with the cheapest 35 spline traction differential, assembled by a buddy for $100 to get the price closer to a US MADE S-60 assembly built with a high end street/strip differential.
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1752446
02/17/15 03:20 PM
02/17/15 03:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,249
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,249
fredericksburg,va
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What is considered to be enough HP to bend the Dana 60 ? Is this equally true for narrowed rears with the ladder bar brackets welded to the center section?
Hard for me to imagine bending this rear with the short and heavy wall truck tubes. 
Mark
Your heavy walls tubes are a help... but the distance
from the ladder bar or 4 link mounts to the end is the
important part.. thats the reason I back brace right
out to the outer bearings
A DANA CAN BE BACK BRACED TOO, all the way to the bearing. Why is this so hard to get into someones mind. Build the ramps to the center, or to the ladder-4-link braces,which is better because you can get more of an angle, or distance from back of housing,then a link(like a 4-link bar with adjusters) then you can put preload into your BACK BRACE. Lets see you bend that. It's called triangulation, same as with your cage. Just use the same engineering with the dana and all the weakness junk goes out the window. On another note when that pinion tries to climb the ring gear in a 9, how much does that center section, which is just bolted to the flat side of the housing, bend and flex that said housing? Won't see this on a dana. This not a mopar thing but the ford rear is not the answer to all rears just the fad at the moment till something else comes along.
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