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Re: re release 6.1 blocks???????
[Re: MattW]
#1709492
12/12/14 11:21 AM
12/12/14 11:21 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
I just picked up a Jeep with a 6.1. Who has a cliff notes versions of what's different between the 5.7 and the 6.1? Where does the bigger 6.4 fit in?
5.7 3.92 bore x 3.58 stroke
6.1 4.055 bore x 3.58 stroke
both can use the same cam
6.4 has a new block design 4.09 bore x 3.92 stroke.
6.4 block is stronger design.
all cranks interchange.
not the cams.
the 5.7 to 08 has a three bolt reluctor wheel.
all 6.1 and 6.4 and 5.7 09 and up have 4 bolts reluctor wheels. plus the 09 and up use more teeth on the reluctor wheel.
Heads
03 to 08 5.7. ported will go 330
09 and up 5.7 "Eagle" will go 330 out of the box and 360+ ported
6.1 heads are supposed to be the heads to get. Just read that somewhere. but apparently don't flow as well as the eagle in stock form.
6.4 "Apache" IIRC was 2011+ will go 340 OOTB and 400 ported
All heads interchange. Always use gaskets for your block that your using.
Matt
So Matt... your saying the 6.1 does not use the VVT
cam... is there any odd ball stuff that has to be
done to the 6.1 during a build
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Re: re release 6.1 blocks???????
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1709493
12/12/14 02:56 PM
12/12/14 02:56 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Ok... this is what I got for info... by the way the Kevin I talked to over at Orchard Dodge ISNT Kevin Moore... but Kevin Moore buys his parts through Orchard Dodge..... as of now there is no block being produced (P5153816ab).. right now there is still just the 12 that are on back order... as far as I can see there is no plans on casting any.. unless they get some magic number of units on back order(no one knows how many units that number is, whether it be 50 or 100  ).. I have a call into Kevin right now and am awaiting his call back..... by the way.. Chrysler employees or retirees get 25% off.... I'll update any info when I get the call back from Kevin.... for you guys that would like his phone #.. 248-439-0261.... so basically guys...... DONT HOLD YOUR BREATH
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Re: re release 6.1 blocks???????
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1709494
12/12/14 04:10 PM
12/12/14 04:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,011
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,011
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Thanks for the update Mike. I am one of the twelve back orders. I do have a 5.7 so it isn't the end of the world, but those extra cubes would have been nice, plus a brand new block ready for cam bearings and drop the pistons in.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: re release 6.1 blocks???????
[Re: gregsdart]
#1709495
12/12/14 04:18 PM
12/12/14 04:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Thanks for the update Mike. I am one of the twelve back orders. I do have a 5.7 so it isn't the end of the world, but those extra cubes would have been nice, plus a brand new block ready for cam bearings and drop the pistons in.
I hear ya Greg... I was thinking of one.. hell $1000
for a new block would have been great... (was $1030
today) but since there is none who knows what the price
will be IF they produce the block... I was asking
about other sizes also.. looks like they dont make
anything for aftermarket
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Re: re release 6.1 blocks???????
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1709497
12/12/14 09:45 PM
12/12/14 09:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I just got my return call from Kevin... he said that the new date for release on these blocks is SUPPOSE to be 1-21-15... some how he said there is 20 on back order.... so as usual... dont hold your breath
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 12/12/14 09:50 PM.
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Re: re release 6.1 blocks???????
[Re: MattW]
#1709499
12/12/14 10:57 PM
12/12/14 10:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,384
Upstate NY
Bigcube
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,384
Upstate NY
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Quote:
Quote:
I just picked up a Jeep with a 6.1. Who has a cliff notes versions of what's different between the 5.7 and the 6.1? Where does the bigger 6.4 fit in?
5.7 3.92 bore x 3.58 stroke
6.1 4.055 bore x 3.58 stroke
both can use the same cam
6.4 has a new block design 4.09 bore x 3.92 stroke.
6.4 block is stronger design.
all cranks interchange.
not the cams.
the 5.7 to 08 has a three bolt reluctor wheel.
all 6.1 and 6.4 and 5.7 09 and up have 4 bolts reluctor wheels. plus the 09 and up use more teeth on the reluctor wheel.
Heads
03 to 08 5.7. ported will go 330
09 and up 5.7 "Eagle" will go 330 out of the box and 360+ ported
6.1 heads are supposed to be the heads to get. Just read that somewhere. but apparently don't flow as well as the eagle in stock form.
6.4 "Apache" IIRC was 2011+ will go 340 OOTB and 400 ported
All heads interchange. Always use gaskets for your block that your using.
Matt
Thank you for the info! 
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Re: re release 6.1 blocks???????
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1709502
12/13/14 11:42 AM
12/13/14 11:42 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 226
lino lakes,MN
onebaddakota
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 226
lino lakes,MN
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Thanks for the info Mr P. Does anyone know if a bare 6.4 block can be obtained yet? That would seem to be the hot ticket for a set of apaches on a big cube SB.
10.56 at 125.6, with a 1.43 60 ft.
E85, Hyd. Roller 410 magnum,full exhaust, 3500 race weight.
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Re: re release 6.1 blocks???????
[Re: onebaddakota]
#1709503
12/13/14 12:33 PM
12/13/14 12:33 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Thanks for the info Mr P. Does anyone know if a bare 6.4 block can be obtained yet? That would seem to be the hot ticket for a set of apaches on a big cube SB.
There were no blocks available of any kind from the
dealerships.. if it isnt for production then they
arent making any..... at this time... dont hold your breath
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Re: re release 6.1 blocks???????
[Re: 1badx]
#1709504
12/13/14 01:34 PM
12/13/14 01:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
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Ebay item #261697456913 is a 6.1 shortblock.  Not mine, just saw it on there,,not smart enough to 'link' it Looked at ad again,,it's from Sharadon .
Last edited by CHAPPER; 12/13/14 04:32 PM.
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
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Re: re release 6.1 blocks???????
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1709505
12/13/14 09:38 PM
12/13/14 09:38 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I just picked up a Jeep with a 6.1. Who has a cliff notes versions of what's different between the 5.7 and the 6.1? Where does the bigger 6.4 fit in?
5.7 3.92 bore x 3.58 stroke
6.1 4.055 bore x 3.58 stroke
both can use the same cam
6.4 has a new block design 4.09 bore x 3.92 stroke.
6.4 block is stronger design.
all cranks interchange.
not the cams.
the 5.7 to 08 has a three bolt reluctor wheel.
all 6.1 and 6.4 and 5.7 09 and up have 4 bolts reluctor wheels. plus the 09 and up use more teeth on the reluctor wheel.
Heads
03 to 08 5.7. ported will go 330
09 and up 5.7 "Eagle" will go 330 out of the box and 360+ ported
6.1 heads are supposed to be the heads to get. Just read that somewhere. but apparently don't flow as well as the eagle in stock form.
6.4 "Apache" IIRC was 2011+ will go 340 OOTB and 400 ported
All heads interchange. Always use gaskets for your block that your using.
Matt
So Matt... your saying the 6.1 does not use the VVT
cam... is there any odd ball stuff that has to be
done to the 6.1 during a build
Sorry Mike. Just saw this.
No the 6.1 does not use the VVT.
Other than the bigger bore the only other thing is the oil squirter s.
Matt
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Re: re release 6.1 blocks???????
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1709506
12/13/14 09:41 PM
12/13/14 09:41 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I just picked up a Jeep with a 6.1. Who has a cliff notes versions of what's different between the 5.7 and the 6.1? Where does the bigger 6.4 fit in?
5.7 3.92 bore x 3.58 stroke
6.1 4.055 bore x 3.58 stroke
both can use the same cam
6.4 has a new block design 4.09 bore x 3.92 stroke.
6.4 block is stronger design.
all cranks interchange.
not the cams.
the 5.7 to 08 has a three bolt reluctor wheel.
all 6.1 and 6.4 and 5.7 09 and up have 4 bolts reluctor wheels. plus the 09 and up use more teeth on the reluctor wheel.
Heads
03 to 08 5.7. ported will go 330
09 and up 5.7 "Eagle" will go 330 out of the box and 360+ ported
6.1 heads are supposed to be the heads to get. Just read that somewhere. but apparently don't flow as well as the eagle in stock form.
6.4 "Apache" IIRC was 2011+ will go 340 OOTB and 400 ported
All heads interchange. Always use gaskets for your block that your using.
Matt
cranks will interchange journal wise but a crank from a VVT engine in a non VVT engine would require machining to allow the crank sprocket to line up with the cam sprocket. The snout of the VVT cranks are longer too. Everything on the front of a VVT engine is spaced away from the block further to accommodate the VVT. Timing covers don't interchange either.
Forgot about that 
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Re: re release 6.1 blocks???????
[Re: Quickrunner]
#1709508
12/14/14 05:59 PM
12/14/14 05:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Yes the aftermarket cranks work fine but need a spacer to line up the timing gears. With the VVT block you're kind of stuck with a mediocre timing chain and an expensive custom cam. Look at what Steff did to make his 392 block work, he MADE a belt drive setup, this should give you a good indication of the situation. You can lock out the cam gear to nullify the VVT also.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: re release 6.1 blocks???????
[Re: Quickrunner]
#1709510
12/14/14 06:23 PM
12/14/14 06:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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I would ditch the VVT block for an earlier one. Yes you can make one work but there is no advantage to them. A stock 6.1 timing set is good to 1000+hp and is proven reliable. Melling 10342 pump. There are cams used all over for 5.7/6.1 engines. You can go solid lifter and $2000 rockers if you want but the need for them IMO only comes from wanting to RPM over 8K rpm. There are 100's of guys that have supercharged their Gen III's and many proven combo's to steal info from. LXForums and Modern Mopar forum have a ton of info and used parts to save you time and money.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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