Re: UPDATED BORGESON FAST RATIO STEERING BOX
[Re: BergmanAutoCraft]
#1706533
12/04/14 01:32 PM
12/04/14 01:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442 NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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How much lighter will the new smaller box be? Vs the first Borg box, as well as to the factory Mopar PS box (less pitman arm)?
I always like weight reductions.
Also, is the ratio any quicker with the newer smaller box? I favor the fastest ratios.
How many turns lock-to-lock are these Borgs boxes?
Are the Borgs boxes a staright/constant ratio, or a variable/progressive ratio?
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: UPDATED BORGESON FAST RATIO STEERING BOX
[Re: BergmanAutoCraft]
#1706534
12/04/14 01:57 PM
12/04/14 01:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Did they fix the angle issue Hotchkis noticed?
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: UPDATED BORGESON FAST RATIO STEERING BOX
[Re: BergmanAutoCraft]
#1706536
12/04/14 03:07 PM
12/04/14 03:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
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Quote:
I haven't weighed it but its all the same as their earlier box, straight 14:1, approx. 15lbs lighter.
With a fast ratio pitman added, I'd take a wild guess at around 10:1 ratio.
Peter is it still a Delphi 600 box?
Is it just machined different for weight/space reduction or another model steering box?
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Re: UPDATED BORGESON FAST RATIO STEERING BOX
[Re: Supercuda]
#1706538
12/05/14 12:47 AM
12/05/14 12:47 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375 SoCal
MuuMuu101
I got lucky at Woodward!
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I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
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Quote:
Did they fix the angle issue Hotchkis noticed?
So the shimming issue wasn't addressed and what was the problem with the small sector again? Not enough thread engagement?
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Re: UPDATED BORGESON FAST RATIO STEERING BOX
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#1706539
12/05/14 01:32 AM
12/05/14 01:32 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Did they fix the angle issue Hotchkis noticed?
So the shimming issue wasn't addressed and what was the problem with the small sector again? Not enough thread engagement?
curious, will they be taking back the old ones? i installed mine in my car but my car is still not finished, so it has zero miles on the box itself. If so I'd like to send it back now while its winter time
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Re: UPDATED BORGESON FAST RATIO STEERING BOX
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#1706542
12/06/14 12:45 PM
12/06/14 12:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,577 Long Island, NY USA
BergmanAutoCraft
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,577
Long Island, NY USA
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Borgeson is not taking back the old boxes. I do not manufacture these boxes, they do.
For someone who has not bought this box or tried it, Tom - you have a lot to say. I wish you'd call me directly with your concerns.
I agree the angularity of the box has been established, but only in certain cases. However, even in the cases where the shafts weren't straight like the originals, NONE of the customers complained that has affected their steering. Remember 2 things, the coupler can take up some angle without a problem and look at new cars or rack applications with crazy angles.
This is the toughest board in the Mopar biz, and it has undoubtedly scared vendors away from posting here on numerous occasions. Most of the haters here have not bought the product or been concerned enough to call me directly.
I've been a contributor to this board for 10+ years a vendor and an advertiser. If you have legitimate concerns ask in a manner like you would face to face rather than throwing stones from behind your keyboard.
My number is 631 423 1517 if you want to speak intelligently to me.
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Re: UPDATED BORGESON FAST RATIO STEERING BOX
[Re: BergmanAutoCraft]
#1706543
12/06/14 02:17 PM
12/06/14 02:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Quote:
Borgeson is not taking back the old boxes. I do not manufacture these boxes, they do.
For someone who has not bought this box or tried it, Tom - you have a lot to say. I wish you'd call me directly with your concerns.
I agree the angularity of the box has been established, but only in certain cases. However, even in the cases where the shafts weren't straight like the originals, NONE of the customers complained that has affected their steering. Remember 2 things, the coupler can take up some angle without a problem and look at new cars or rack applications with crazy angles.
This is the toughest board in the Mopar biz, and it has undoubtedly scared vendors away from posting here on numerous occasions. Most of the haters here have not bought the product or been concerned enough to call me directly.
I've been a contributor to this board for 10+ years a vendor and an advertiser. If you have legitimate concerns ask in a manner like you would face to face rather than throwing stones from behind your keyboard.
My number is 631 423 1517 if you want to speak intelligently to me.
Wow.
hater for point out defects in design and manufacturing?.
Last resort there.
Borgeson put out an overpriced half @ssed designed and built box, I will point out that you stepped up to address some of the issues with installing one, which if Borgeson was on the ball they would have already done and not had to rely on their customers to be beta testers and their resellers to be the R&D department.
To refresh your memory
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rt=all&vc=1
Of course in that thread it's the haters that are the problem once again, I notice your mouth conspicuously snapped shut once the OP posted exactly the contortions he had to go thru with both you and Borgeson before he could get something done, which was to buy another box, send in the defective one and hope the Borgeson would agree it was defective and refund his purchase price.
Lesson learned here? Do not buy Borgeson stuff and do not patronize Bergman AutoKrap. Might not fix the problem but I'll be one less aggravation to deal with.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: UPDATED BORGESON FAST RATIO STEERING BOX
[Re: Supercuda]
#1706544
12/06/14 02:55 PM
12/06/14 02:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
Borgeson is not taking back the old boxes. I do not manufacture these boxes, they do.
For someone who has not bought this box or tried it, Tom - you have a lot to say. I wish you'd call me directly with your concerns.
I agree the angularity of the box has been established, but only in certain cases. However, even in the cases where the shafts weren't straight like the originals, NONE of the customers complained that has affected their steering. Remember 2 things, the coupler can take up some angle without a problem and look at new cars or rack applications with crazy angles.
This is the toughest board in the Mopar biz, and it has undoubtedly scared vendors away from posting here on numerous occasions. Most of the haters here have not bought the product or been concerned enough to call me directly.
I've been a contributor to this board for 10+ years a vendor and an advertiser. If you have legitimate concerns ask in a manner like you would face to face rather than throwing stones from behind your keyboard.
My number is 631 423 1517 if you want to speak intelligently to me.
Wow.
hater for point out defects in design and manufacturing?.
Last resort there.
Borgeson put out an overpriced half @ssed designed and built box, I will point out that you stepped up to address some of the issues with installing one, which if Borgeson was on the ball they would have already done and not had to rely on their customers to be beta testers and their resellers to be the R&D department.
To refresh your memory
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rt=all&vc=1
Of course in that thread it's the haters that are the problem once again, I notice your mouth conspicuously snapped shut once the OP posted exactly the contortions he had to go thru with both you and Borgeson before he could get something done, which was to buy another box, send in the defective one and hope the Borgeson would agree it was defective and refund his purchase price.
Lesson learned here? Do not buy Borgeson stuff and do not patronize Bergman AutoKrap. Might not fix the problem but I'll be one less aggravation to deal with.
Summit, Jegs, and tons of other sell this box. Bash them too.
But everyone is piling on Bergman because he is someone that will publicly interact with people.
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Re: UPDATED BORGESON FAST RATIO STEERING BOX
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1706545
12/06/14 03:16 PM
12/06/14 03:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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I'm bashing on him cause of the haters comment. Real customer service there.
There is an issue with the box, at least some of them. Which tells me it's probably a manufacturing issue in regards to the shimming issue. The pitman arm spline issue is a design issues. I did point out he stepped up to the plate regarding the extra parts needed to install the box. Did you bother to read the link posted, the contortions the OP had to go thru with BOTH Borgeson and Bergman?
Bergman's post basically says the problems are haters, not the box. Which demonstrably incorrect. I would say that the feedback from here ought to be an opportunity for Borgeson to refine their product and if Bergman can kick them in the butt to get it done great, but I don't think he can. He'd rather call us haters.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: UPDATED BORGESON FAST RATIO STEERING BOX
[Re: Supercuda]
#1706546
12/06/14 03:37 PM
12/06/14 03:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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People need to take into account that this is just as frustrating for Peter as it is his customers. He is not making a killing on these boxes I guarantee you. People want their money back? Get it from Borgeson, go directly to the horses mouth, it is THEIR baby and THEY need to take care of THEIR customers. Peter is trying to make a living catering to the Mopar crowd, which is a monumental headache in itself, and I don't remember him ever saying he was perfect. I wouldn't want to walk in his shoes either.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: UPDATED BORGESON FAST RATIO STEERING BOX
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1706547
12/06/14 04:17 PM
12/06/14 04:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Regardless of the he said/she said, to work through this issue, it would help if it was taken down a notch. From what I read I emphasize with all sides here. But I would prefer it get worked out, rather then we declare one side a debate winner. I also like it kept online, so we can follow along, but it has to be civil. The point about this site being tough maybe accurate, and I think when these things go personal it takes the wind out of the sails of those who are through their own creativity trying to move the hobby forward. I sure the budget turbo project is paying attention to this outcome, same for revered new 855 tranny, and I know I would. Since I haven't bought the gear box, but would consider it, I hope I am still inline to comment
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: UPDATED BORGESON FAST RATIO STEERING BOX
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1706548
12/06/14 04:20 PM
12/06/14 04:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska
astjp2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
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I agree its a manufacturer problem and they should be the ones to handle the repair/replacement. I personally think that the pinion on the box may have the splines machined off a few degrees causing all of the problems. Tim
1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
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Re: UPDATED BORGESON FAST RATIO STEERING BOX
[Re: astjp2]
#1706549
12/06/14 06:12 PM
12/06/14 06:12 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723 Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
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Peter has been good to me. He straightened out a TTI issue for me that I guarantee I would not have been able to sort out alone. That did require me to take lots of pictures and measurements, which I was okay with. My frustration was not with Peter in that process, but TTI, as it was their product that didn't fit. Peter went to bat for me after confirming it was indeed a TTI issue and not my vehicle.
To sum it up, I bought TTI and Borgeson from Peter on purpose- because he is a big vendor for both and will carry more weight if I needed something fixed. Which I did need something fixed. And he did get it fixed. Sure, it took time and effort on my part, but this is a Mopar, and new products don't always fit.
I know some of y'all had a different experience, and I'm not discounting that. I'm just sharing my experience. Peter will stay my preferred vendor for both TTI and Borgeson.
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar -'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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