Re: Jeggie leaving Pro Stock too...
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1698656
11/19/14 05:32 PM
11/19/14 05:32 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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There is always a "grey" area in the rules. It simply said, "fuel must pass this and this spec"..........so if it does NOT say, you can't use this and you can't use this, as long as the fuel passed fuel check, he was legal. Because they DO check pro-Stock fuel after every run. So the obvious answer was "spec fuel". This takes the load off the tech dept and trying to figure out what guys MIGHT come up with for additives.
Don't get me wrong, I am not defending anybody, just pointing out the mindset in a class such as this. EVERY team is looking for ANY advantage they can find and think they can get away with. Just like every chassis builder has body templates and they build the body to those templates. Now what the teams do AFTER that........who knows. Several teams have had bodies tossed and you KNOW it didn't come from Haas, Bickel, or Jones like that.
So bodies "tweaked", blocks bored "not straight", fuel "mixed", "hidden" shifters, "one off" shocks and a myriad of other things is just common everyday events in a class like this, where .001 MATTERS. So in the big picture..........they are ALL "cheaters"........LOL!!......So as smart as all these guys are, when one team all of a sudden "finds" a mph. You can bet they are being "creative" somewhere and tech WILL find it eventually
Monte
You can parse all you want, be here is where we digress. You can say what you want about the fuel Jeg was blending, but I remember that is was BORDERLINE racing gasoline...so I would let that slide.
But no way in hell can you defend what he did as operating in a "grey" area when the rule said the driver had to shift the car, and Jeg's car magically changed gears WITH BOTH HANDS ON THE WHEEL. Now, if you want to say he was "endowed" with a gift that let him shift with out his hands, that's on you.
So, taking it on the whole, Jeg is a bona fide cheater. You can call him "creative". I won't. He was/is/always will be a CHEATER.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Jeggie leaving Pro Stock too...
[Re: madscientist]
#1698657
11/19/14 06:10 PM
11/19/14 06:10 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008 Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
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They ALL cheat is some shape, form or fashion. Some get caught, some don't. The great Smokey Yunick said if you aren't cheating, you aren't winning and that was the cold blooded truth. If you think your favorite team or driver is a bunch of "angels" who never attempts to circumvent the rule book........you live in LaLa land. And another thing, if it doesn't specifically say you CAN'T do something in the rule book, that makes it legal in mosts eyes.
You violate a "written" rule, they hit you pretty hard. Operate in the "grey area" of something not plainly spelled out, you get a "slap" and the rule clarified. Anyone who has ever seriously class raced knows how it works
Monte
I might agree with you on the fuel cheating charge Jeg got popped for. I don't remember the EXACT issue, but it bordered on the fact that what he was blending was almost not a "gasoline" or even a "racing fuel". I really just kind of blew that off as racers being racers, then the details came out. I then thought maybe Jeg was over the line.
BUT, when he was caught, red handed, in Seattle, I realized that probably the fuel deal was as big a deal as WJ (and several others) made it out to be. The cheating is Seattle was the fact that at that time, in Pro Stock you could use an "electronic" shifter. I can't remember what the actual rule was (I don't save all my rule books any more) but the driver was still supposed to push the little button on top of the shifter. For the record, I hated the rule when it came out. Anyway, they (ESPN cameras) caught JEG, with BOTH hands on the wheel and the car shifting. We could all see it, and Ray Charles could hear it. The car was loose, but it shifted, and Jeg had BOTH hands on the wheel.
Yup, that's a CHEATER. By the money [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] (prostitute) AKA NHRA did very little because they didn't want to kill that goose.
Jeg=Cheater. Plain and simple.
Well Hell that's nothing new,us Bracket Racers have auto shifts for years,nothing like having both hands on the wheel and the shift noid not only shifts it into the next gear but shifts it at the perfect & same RPM everytime! Us Bracket Racers have lots more things than just shift noids,and it would not surprise me if some of them had made their way into Pro-Stock as well other class's.
It matters not what class you Race if you want to Win you have got to do what ever it takes.
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: Jeggie leaving Pro Stock too...
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1698660
11/19/14 07:00 PM
11/19/14 07:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,060 Western New York
sixpackbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,060
Western New York
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I've been in the racing arena for several decades, drag and round track, and I have seen thousands of ways to get an edge. Off axis blocks, massaging sheet metal, propylene oxide in the oil pan ect are just ways of riding the rule book as hard as you can. If you do not the competition will and you will loose. For these types of things cheating is too harsh a word. Cheating to me is 600" when 500" is legal. Using a 4bbl. where a 2bbl. is rule. Blatant disregard for the rules. While all rules have gotten more concise there are still areas that can be successfully argued in tear down. Typically when a competitor wins the battle rules are more clearly defined the next year. PS fuel for instance. Only one fuel allowed now and is distributed by NHRA to the teams at the track. Ended the Klotz and other stuff monkey business.
1959 Bugeye Sprite 1967 Charger Black L code 1967 Coronet R/T Convert Green 440 auto bought from original owner 1968 Charger R/T Bronze 440 4 spd console AM/FM 1969 Super Bee WM21H B5 A40 D21 N96 1969 Barracuda Formula S 340 Convert pilot car 1969 Hemi Road Runner RM23J D32 Omaha orange 4.10 Dana N96 N85 1970 Super Bee WM23N FE5 V1X 3.91 axle package, N96 1970 Road Runner RM21N B3 V1X D13 1971 MG Midget 1971 Road Runner RM23H GW3, A57 1972 Road Runner RM23P FY1, D21
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Re: Jeggie leaving Pro Stock too...
[Re: Eric]
#1698662
11/19/14 07:45 PM
11/19/14 07:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,205 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,205
Park Forest, IL
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Jeg was not the only one using Rocket Fuel. Pretty sure Star Racing was too, and even Dave Schultz. Pretty sure some of the other P/S teams were too. The biggest reason they outlawed it wasn't the performance advantage, the stuff was highly carcinogenic, and a major health risk. As for the fires under the cars, that was simply high float levels sloshing fuel out through the cylinders and into the headers on shutdown. There have been pictures posted of almost every car doing it at one time or another.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: Jeggie leaving Pro Stock too...
[Re: madscientist]
#1698664
11/19/14 07:59 PM
11/19/14 07:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,685 W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,685
W. Kentucky
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Quote:
But no way in hell can you defend what he did as operating in a "grey" area when the rule said the driver had to shift the car, and Jeg's car magically changed gears WITH BOTH HANDS ON THE WHEEL. Now, if you want to say he was "endowed" with a gift that let him shift with out his hands, that's on you.
So, taking it on the whole, Jeg is a bona fide cheater. You can call him "creative". I won't. He was/is/always will be a CHEATER.
Maybe he had his shift button on the steering wheel.
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Re: Jeggie leaving Pro Stock too...
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#1698667
11/20/14 03:04 PM
11/20/14 03:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 290 Norwalk Ohio
cudasteve68
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 290
Norwalk Ohio
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The more money involved..........the more the "win at all costs" mentality prevails. In the PRO ranks.....it is strictly BUSINESS.
Just like everyone harping on Force and Schumaker teams allegedly "diving" to help team mates win the title. It's strickly a business decision and part of the reason for multi car teams. Same way NASCAR teams have other members "block" or "wreck" somebody to help their guys win. All the same.........WIN.
I do "hidden" nitrous systems for guys all the time. What they do with them is their business. Have also built "on board" VHT sprayer systems for street racers. What about 500" motors with 383 "pie tins" on the breather. There is a fine line between what many call "cheating" and others call "creativity"
Not saying it is right..........its just how it is
Monte
Monte,lets keep our Grudge & Bracket Racing secret's a secret! I bet everybody thinks that's a Joke,but its not!Some of us have things that others looking for it can look right at it and not see it!
Yeah like my next neighbor that mud drags a Bronco with a very strong 514. He ran two classes. One with spray the other was not allowed spray. I asked him one time after about a 6-pack in the garage if anyone bitched that his NOS lines where rolled in the back in a coil and about 4 feet to long. He just smiled and said they do not have a clue.
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Re: Jeggie leaving Pro Stock too...
[Re: Eric]
#1698668
11/20/14 03:22 PM
11/20/14 03:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131 New Lenox IL
cudadon
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
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I always failed to see even the most remote gratification in a win with anything but integrity. Maybe thats just me.
I always wondered how people who cheated to win sleep at night!
Or looked their competitors in the eye! Don
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Re: Jeggie leaving Pro Stock too...
[Re: cudadon]
#1698669
11/20/14 03:28 PM
11/20/14 03:28 PM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503 Idaho
1320Dart
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
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How could a person honestly feel good about their win, knowing damn good and well they cheated?!
Greg ----------------------------------------------------------------- Cost is irrelevant, making memories is far more valuable!
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Re: Jeggie leaving Pro Stock too...
[Re: 1320Dart]
#1698670
11/20/14 03:37 PM
11/20/14 03:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,285 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,285
Bend,OR USA
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How could a person honestly feel good about their win, knowing damn good and well they cheated?!
The devil, ego, corrupts many people at many levels in every walk of life, especially in sports and politics I like to be honest, straight forward and not have to remember which lie I told to which person
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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