|
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better?
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1697269
11/16/14 12:51 PM
11/16/14 12:51 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,601
ky
headhunter
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,601
ky
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A carb i can have running in 5 minutes. EFI depends on how long the migrane headache and violent shaking lasts
5 minutes starting from what? My very first standalone EFI car fired, ran to 12,000rpm and idled within it's first start. Wiring from scratch, tune from scratch in a tube chassis race car. 
Migraine? Violent shaking?.....Fear of change sounds pretty alive and well here. 
Yes, Im one of the more stupider guys on here
oh no I have that title   it seems hard to think I can buy a efi intake and wiring harness and all that's involved with that and a efi fuel pump and lines would be easier or cost less than a carb and intake. but then again I am old and don't do well with computer how well is one of the like fast fuel injection deals that take the place of a carb? versus a factory deal like you all are talking about?
|
|
|
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better?
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1697271
11/16/14 04:31 PM
11/16/14 04:31 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A carb i can have running in 5 minutes. EFI depends on how long the migrane headache and violent shaking lasts
5 minutes starting from what? My very first standalone EFI car fired, ran to 12,000rpm and idled within it's first start. Wiring from scratch, tune from scratch in a tube chassis race car.
Migraine? Violent shaking?.....Fear of change sounds pretty alive and well here.
Yes, Im one of the more stupider guys on here
NO......you're NOT........you like many others just fear change and venturing into something you are not familiar with. You didn't know anything about gen 3 HEMIs either, but you jumped right in there and made it work. EFI would be no different. It's fuel, air and spark.......just like any motor.
Monte
|
|
|
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1697272
11/16/14 10:58 PM
11/16/14 10:58 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
|
Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A carb i can have running in 5 minutes. EFI depends on how long the migrane headache and violent shaking lasts
5 minutes starting from what? My very first standalone EFI car fired, ran to 12,000rpm and idled within it's first start. Wiring from scratch, tune from scratch in a tube chassis race car.
Migraine? Violent shaking?.....Fear of change sounds pretty alive and well here.
Yes, Im one of the more stupider guys on here
NO......you're NOT........you like many others just fear change and venturing into something you are not familiar with. You didn't know anything about gen 3 HEMIs either, but you jumped right in there and made it work. EFI would be no different. It's fuel, air and spark.......just like any motor.
Monte
My issues are more related to using a computer. Its not that i dont understand and. I'm not as gifted as Goody who can make a wiring harness faster than i can tighten 4 carb stud nuts.
Also, it always comes down to using what you have laying around.
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
|
|
|
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better?
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1697274
11/17/14 12:47 AM
11/17/14 12:47 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A carb i can have running in 5 minutes. EFI depends on how long the migrane headache and violent shaking lasts
5 minutes starting from what? My very first standalone EFI car fired, ran to 12,000rpm and idled within it's first start. Wiring from scratch, tune from scratch in a tube chassis race car.
Migraine? Violent shaking?.....Fear of change sounds pretty alive and well here.
Yes, Im one of the more stupider guys on here
NO......you're NOT........you like many others just fear change and venturing into something you are not familiar with. You didn't know anything about gen 3 HEMIs either, but you jumped right in there and made it work. EFI would be no different. It's fuel, air and spark.......just like any motor.
Monte
My issues are more related to using a computer. Its not that i dont understand and. I'm not as gifted as Goody who can make a wiring harness faster than i can tighten 4 carb stud nuts.
Also, it always comes down to using what you have laying around.
You are able to post on this board.........so you know about as much about computers as I do. You do NOT have to be a computer guru to use EFI. And another thing. If you have a DECENT baseline map saved in your computer, you can have your existing tune so fubar'd it is ridiculous and restoring it to the other is just a mouse click away.
Monte
|
|
|
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1697275
11/17/14 02:26 PM
11/17/14 02:26 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5
Kentucky
uncledon
member
|
member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5
Kentucky
|
my thoughts...and I hear from both sides of the fence... the true blue old school "mopar or nocar" guys..cant fathom having a new style hemi in an old mopar. the new guys, cant fathom why in the world you would take a new hemi, with all the technology and advanced learning and go backwards and put a carb set up on it...and go back to old school..?? im in the middle. im using the new styly hemi and making it look like the old hemi....big valve covers, plugs thru top of valve covers...carb, headers....old school but with newer docile technology engine... It is not that I fear tuning an efi, been there done that. im good on computers, laptops, tuning, turbo cars, blah blah... its my choice to go carb'd, plus that's how I bought this set up from a board member here running, driving, carb...done. its my only way I will have a HEMI lol...can't afford the "real hemi".. long story short and rant over: either one can be tuned for good HP. either one will look cool. put on it what you want...and are comfortable with and your budget and parts available allows. once mine is done I will drive it state to state with a carb set up...I don't care. plan to do the power tour next year, and possibly drag week. 
67 Dodge Coronet 500 (Hemi 5.7 swap)
|
|
|
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better?
[Re: uncledon]
#1697276
11/17/14 03:34 PM
11/17/14 03:34 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,567
USA
hudsonhornet7x
OP
pro stock
|
OP
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,567
USA
|
Quote:
my thoughts...and I hear from both sides of the fence...
the true blue old school "mopar or nocar" guys..cant fathom having a new style hemi in an old mopar.
the new guys, cant fathom why in the world you would take a new hemi, with all the technology and advanced learning and go backwards and put a carb set up on it...and go back to old school..??
im in the middle. im using the new styly hemi and making it look like the old hemi....big valve covers, plugs thru top of valve covers...carb, headers....old school but with newer docile technology engine...
It is not that I fear tuning an efi, been there done that. im good on computers, laptops, tuning, turbo cars, blah blah...
its my choice to go carb'd, plus that's how I bought this set up from a board member here running, driving, carb...done.
its my only way I will have a HEMI lol...can't afford the "real hemi"..
long story short and rant over: either one can be tuned for good HP. either one will look cool. put on it what you want...and are comfortable with and your budget and parts available allows. once mine is done I will drive it state to state with a carb set up...I don't care. plan to do the power tour next year, and possibly drag week.
I understand what you mean!
Here is a question for all the hemi gurus- sinc this is a vvt motor we are working with, could we use comp's lock kit and be done with it, or is it not that simple?
|
|
|
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better?
[Re: AlexP]
#1697279
11/17/14 08:54 PM
11/17/14 08:54 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 412
Portersville, Pa
1badx
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 412
Portersville, Pa
|
Quote:
If you can tune a carb, you can tune efi.
Instead of three circuits with a huge range of jet and mixture inputs, you've got a 16x16 fuel table and a 16x16 ignition table.
The idle/primary/secondary circuits are all there, its just numbers on a computer instead of a screwdriver and jets.
And the auto tune helps too, but its not the only thing that is needed.
It's a little more complicated than that (injector size, injector flow, min PW, cold start, cranking fuel, o2 correction, timing tables etc.)
BUT - I agree with you, if you can tune a carb and distributor, adjust jetting, power valves, accel pump, accel pump cams, squirters, air bleeds, distributor advance springs or MSD digital timing curves you can tune an EFI system.
And as others have said these engine were designed for EFI.
OST Dyno - Home of the worlds Quickest and Fastest Supercharged Hellcat!
Building and tuning record setting Gen III Hemi’s since 2006!
|
|
|
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better?
[Re: 1badx]
#1697280
11/17/14 09:47 PM
11/17/14 09:47 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
hemidup
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
|
Quote:
Quote:
If you can tune a carb, you can tune efi.
Instead of three circuits with a huge range of jet and mixture inputs, you've got a 16x16 fuel table and a 16x16 ignition table.
The idle/primary/secondary circuits are all there, its just numbers on a computer instead of a screwdriver and jets.
And the auto tune helps too, but its not the only thing that is needed.
It's a little more complicated than that (injector size, injector flow, min PW, cold start, cranking fuel, o2 correction, timing tables etc.)
BUT - I agree with you, if you can tune a carb and distributor, adjust jetting, power valves, accel pump, accel pump cams, squirters, air bleeds, distributor advance springs or MSD digital timing curves you can tune an EFI system.
And as others have said these engine were designed for EFI.
Have you played with HPTuners for NGC? Been thinking of going this route with my 05.
Jerry Williams.
|
|
|
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better?
[Re: uncledon]
#1697281
11/17/14 09:54 PM
11/17/14 09:54 PM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,534
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,534
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
|
Quote:
my thoughts...and I hear from both sides of the fence...
the true blue old school "mopar or nocar" guys..cant fathom having a new style hemi in an old mopar.
the new guys, cant fathom why in the world you would take a new hemi, with all the technology and advanced learning and go backwards and put a carb set up on it...and go back to old school..??
Well us old guys, its still an issue of cost to change over to a G3 and proven parts for higher horse power applications are tough to come by....They also lack cubic inches. I would much prefer a +450 cube G3 over a 392 G3...so to go were I want to go I need a power adder...more $$$...Where do these fit in against a typical +500 cube BBM? To each their own. I like them all.
And carbs flat out work for the record. I like both carbs and efi, and both done right are not cheap. I am not talking about a pair of eddy carbs either...So taking a big barrel intake off a newer hemi an restofying it to shed all the un needed stuff, so be it. We do that...
Racing is about going fast with only what is needed.
And I will tell you what, I have been reading on those boosted LSX motors Dutwieler (sp) has been building, and the Mopar folks have some learning to do.
http://www.enginelabs.com/news/videos-1000-horsepower-supercharged-lsx-build-for-the-street/
Don't look at this one if you hate carbs....
http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine/big-power-numbers-gms-lsx454r-reliability-focus/
Last edited by Dragula; 11/17/14 10:11 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better?
[Re: HEMIDARTS]
#1697285
11/18/14 09:03 AM
11/18/14 09:03 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
GoodysGotaCuda
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
|
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
|
Quote:
Will there be newer and better EFI anytime soon?
Direct Injection.
It's out there in OEM applications plenty [ECO-Boost, BMW 335, etc]
But I don't see that making it to the aftermarket within the next few years, eventually, but it's very finicky [very high rail pressures and very precise fueling].
|
|
|
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better?
[Re: HEMIDARTS]
#1697287
11/18/14 02:40 PM
11/18/14 02:40 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
|
Quote:
Will there be newer and better EFI anytime soon?
New and better?............in what way? Some of the current EFI systems you can buy are VERY advanced, can do WAY more than most people know how to do, are rock solid reliable and can also be very EASY to use. Now if you are talking about VVT, there is a couple of boxes that work with it now and I know we/Holley are working on it as well.
Monte
|
|
|
Re: Gen III Hemi- Carb or EFI? Which one is better?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1697288
11/18/14 02:56 PM
11/18/14 02:56 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
BBR
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
|
The main problem I had when I was an EFI-noob was I really had no idea when good enough was good enough. Getting the tune close enough to run decently and safely took a lot of time. And even then I was constantly questioning (and tinkering) whether it was ok or if it needed to be tweaked to be better. Going to a carb on the next build was almost a relief because that is what I was comfortable with. It was easier to just say it was "good enough" and focus on other things instead of obsessing over how much to increase the cold start enrichment or whatever.
Drag Week 2011 - 77th place - DD
Drag Week 2012 - 2nd place SRBB N/A
Drag Week 2014 - Kapooya
RMRW 2018
RMRW 2020
|
|
|
|
|
