Aluminum head upgrade question - Moparts Forums

Register Log In Moparts Forums Unlawfl's Race & Engine Tech Aluminum head upgrade question

Print Thread

Aluminum head upgrade question #1676258 09/23/14 09:00 PM 09/23/14 09:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 46 Alabama gold1950 OP member
gold1950 OP member Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 46 Alabama	I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question or if you need more info in order to answer it. If I have a relatively stock 440 engine.... (.030 over) 6-pack intake setup Mopar purple cam (509 lift) And I want to upgrade from my stock 906 heads to a set of the Edelbrock Performer Aluminum heads, approximately what kind of HP gain am i expected to see ? I'm currently running stock (HP Exhaust manifolds) but willing to upgrade to headers if I have to. I prefer to stick with the stock manifolds. Thanks for any help Gary

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: gold1950] #1676259 09/23/14 09:05 PM 09/23/14 09:05 PM
Joined: May 2011 Posts: 4,489 northern,Ohio,USA C Clanton master
Clanton master C Joined: May 2011 Posts: 4,489 northern,Ohio,USA	A lot of your gain will be from flow in your cam lift range. GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads. http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: Clanton] #1676260 09/23/14 09:18 PM 09/23/14 09:18 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	McCandless did an back to back deal just like that when the Eddys came out--was over 50 HP gain IIRC may have been a little more simple answer to simple question- something you do not get on this forum very often-- -McCandlessboy is memeber here and if you can contact him I am sure they still have the data but call Marsh Perf and get a set of Sidewinders for way less than Eddys and do exactly the same result if not a little better and save enough to buy a nice carb.

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: ] #1676261 09/23/14 09:28 PM 09/23/14 09:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,563 S.E. Michigan cl440 master
cl440 master Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,563 S.E. Michigan	50hp + weight savings. win win

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: gold1950] #1676262 09/23/14 11:43 PM 09/23/14 11:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,045 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,045 Oregon	The Edelbrock heads will give you a decent power increase right out of the box. Having someone like Porter Racing heads go over them will give you even more power. You don't need a full porting, just some clean up and double checking. I'd recommend using the Mopar .528 solid flat tappet cam rather than that .509 cam. The 509 cam isn't a very good choice if you're going to run the exhaust manifolds. The .528 solid will make more power and run much better with the manifolds than the 509.

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: AndyF] #1676263 09/24/14 12:10 PM 09/24/14 12:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 46 Alabama gold1950 OP member
gold1950 OP member Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 46 Alabama	All very good information, thank you.

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: AndyF] #1676264 09/24/14 12:28 PM 09/24/14 12:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 46 Alabama gold1950 OP member
gold1950 OP member Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 46 Alabama	Sorry, one more question. If I choose to go with either of these aluminum heads, I assume I can use my existing push rods but what recommendation would you suggest for the valve train since I'm currently using the stock rocker assembly. Thanks

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: gold1950] #1676265 09/24/14 12:38 PM 09/24/14 12:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Sorry, one more question. If I choose to go with either of these aluminum heads, I assume I can use my existing push rods but what recommendation would you suggest for the valve train since I'm currently using the stock rocker assembly. Thanks I would really doubt you can use the existing PR specially if you change cams... the base of the cam is cut in farther when the lift is increase... I dont know if the rocker shaft mounts are on the same height as stock heads but if they are different then that would make for different PR lengths

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: gold1950] #1676266 09/24/14 01:56 PM 09/24/14 01:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,045 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,045 Oregon	If you are staying with a fairly mild hyd cam then you can use stock rocker arms. If you switch to a solid lifter cam then you need adjustable rocker arms.

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: AndyF] #1676267 09/24/14 02:26 PM 09/24/14 02:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,942 Metro Detroit OUTLAWD top fuel
OUTLAWD top fuel Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,942 Metro Detroit	Good info here. I am in a similar boat. Looking to upgrade the ported -516's heads on my 493 to something a bit lighter and better flowing. Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death... 71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts 66 Belv. II - just a streetcar 88 Mustang - turbo LS beater

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: gold1950] #1676268 09/24/14 05:15 PM 09/24/14 05:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,045 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,045 Oregon	If you want to keep the exhaust manifolds then I'd recommend finding a set of the Mopar 452 aluminum heads. The Mopar heads are made by Edelbrock but they have straight spark plugs so the plug wires will fit better. The Mopar 452 heads are more expensive than the Edelbrock heads and might be hard to find.

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1676269 09/25/14 12:35 PM 09/25/14 12:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 46 Alabama gold1950 OP member
gold1950 OP member Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 46 Alabama	Quote: Quote: Sorry, one more question. If I choose to go with either of these aluminum heads, I assume I can use my existing push rods but what recommendation would you suggest for the valve train since I'm currently using the stock rocker assembly. Thanks I would really doubt you can use the existing PR specially if you change cams... the base of the cam is cut in farther when the lift is increase... I dont know if the rocker shaft mounts are on the same height as stock heads but if they are different then that would make for different PR lengths Thanks for the reply. I'm not changing the cam (still using the Mopar 509). I'm considering to change from the stock 906 head to an aluminum head like the Edelbrock Performer. Questions: 1.) If I just change out the heads, what is the suggested rocker assembly to go with ? 2.) Since the Edelbrock heads claim to be bolt-on, does that mean that I can use my existing PR as long as I don't change my cam ? --> By the way....aren't all heads "bolt-on" ? I understand your point about the height of the heads determining the length of your PR, guess I need to call Edelbrock to see if they are different.

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: gold1950] #1676270 09/25/14 12:45 PM 09/25/14 12:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana Dunnuck Racing master
Dunnuck Racing master Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana	Edelbrock will suggest adjustable rocker arms so you can get the correct preload. Most likely you will be okay with what you have unless your old combination had excessive milling done. Edelbrock claims they are bolt on ready bit the quality of the assembly is lacking. Most builders will tell you to check the valve job and guide fit along with checking the springs installed height. These are some of the reasons several of us are assembling Sidewinder heads with quality work and components so you truly can just bolt them on and go. Keith www.dunnuckracing.com

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: gold1950] #1676271 09/25/14 01:01 PM 09/25/14 01:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Thanks for the reply. I'm not changing the cam (still using the Mopar 509). I'm considering to change from the stock 906 head to an aluminum head like the Edelbrock Performer. Questions: 1.) If I just change out the heads, what is the suggested rocker assembly to go with ? 2.) Since the Edelbrock heads claim to be bolt-on, does that mean that I can use my existing PR as long as I don't change my cam ? --> By the way....aren't all heads "bolt-on" ? I understand your point about the height of the heads determining the length of your PR, guess I need to call Edelbrock to see if they are different. What is the engine used for street street/strip.. but a lot of guys like Harlan Sharp rockers but you might be able to get away with a bit less... but my opinion on rockers and valve train parts is to buy good ones the first time so you arent replacing them later.. also I was thinking you were gonna change cams to the 528 like Andy said... if the shafts are on the same height as the stock head then with the adjustable rockers you should be ok... if things werent cut (like the heads)... also.. like was said.. the parts on most of the heads and the valve job arent the best.. I touch up the valve job on ANY new head that comes assembled EDIT and no... not all heads are bolt on... some need massive work Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 09/25/14 01:05 PM.

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1676272 09/25/14 09:41 PM 09/25/14 09:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 646 VA. M mosweethemi mopar
mosweethemi mopar M Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 646 VA.	HELLO I RUN THE 509 CAM IN ALL OF MY BIG BLOCK ENGINE ALSO STOCK EXHAUST MANIFOLDS WITH 3" PIPES AND 40 FLOW MASTER MUFFLERS ALL THE WAY BACK WITH TURN DOWNS I GET FROM JEGS. STAY WITH THE MP 509 CAM IT WORKS WITH A FOUR SPEED AND AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION . ONE OF THE BEST CAM YOU CAN GET THAT WORKS WITH ANY BIG BLOCK MOPAR . I HAVE BEEN BUILDING BIG BLOCK MOPAR ENGINES FOR YEARS AND THE 509 CAM ALWAYS PULLS GREAT ALL OF THE TIME . ON YOUR HEADS MY ENGINE I PUT A SET OF EZ1 FROM INDY .LOOKS TO E A VERY GOOD ALUMINUM HEAD OUT THERE , WILL BE IN MY PRO STREET DUSTER AND RUNNING SOON . THANKS MOPARTS !(A REAL MOPAR MAN ) Last edited by mosweethemi; 09/25/14 09:43 PM.

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: mosweethemi] #1676273 09/26/14 11:12 AM 09/26/14 11:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 411 Harleysville, PA USA T Tommy D mopar
Tommy D mopar T Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 411 Harleysville, PA USA	There's always the 440 Source Stealth heads. They look very close to the stock head's appearance from the outside. They offer them in CNC ported form as well. I understand that all the valvetrain components are re-usable on those heads. Tom

Re: Aluminum head upgrade question [Re: gold1950] #1676274 09/26/14 01:23 PM 09/26/14 01:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion	Although I have a low deck stroker(470 ci.), going from ported 906`s to "Thumper" ported rpm`s took me from 10.40`s to 9.79 (so far) but I also went from a solid to a roller. Point is they will work well w/a valve touch up and some light bowl work and clean up in your case. Just did a 2 circuit carb conversion for a friends 470 BB Ferd and ported/converted his E-brock clover leaf manifold into a nice generous standard open plenum and SHOULD take him from his 10.08 best into the 9`s no problem then he`s gonna let me work over his E-brock for even more power. I like the challenge of using a stock replacement head and going faster that some "high dollar" stuff.................fun, fun fun. Last edited by Thumperdart; 09/26/14 05:34 PM. 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Moderated by Al_Alguire, Hotwheelsjr, moparts, not_a_charger, RangerDan440, tboomer

Hop To

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1