'70 Cuda Getting Warm - My strategy - Right Path?
#1656409
08/08/14 03:57 PM
08/08/14 03:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 518 Georgia
Steve Bryant
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 518
Georgia
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It didn't seem right to hijack PossessedDuster's heating post so I wanted to start a new one to report my problem/findings. My 440 Cuda is running warm at idle and I am sure it would overheat if I let it idle for more than 10 minutes. The car stays cool if I am moving even at lower speeds but when I am at idle after some town driving the temp will continue to creep up until I intervene.
My laser temperature gauge indicates a 5-10 degree difference between the upper and lower hose at warm idle. As a test, I plan to install a solid fan this afternoon with a spacer to replace my current Viscous clutch fan. It appears to me that the fan is not moving enough air at idle. I will post the results as soon as the parts arrive and I can test.
I have E-Body non-rallye gauges so only a needle and no numbers. The needle sits at 40-50% during “normal” drive operation. In bumper-to-bumper traffic or a prolonged (+5 minutes) idle on a warm day the needle will move up to 60-70% until I get moving again. I think it would overheat if I left it at idle since the needle never stops creeping up.
440ci – Bored .30 – 6-Pack Rods forged crank CompCams Cam: Duration at 050 inch Lift: 218 int./224 exh. Advertised Duration: 262 int./270 exh. Lobe Separation (degrees):110 Probe Pistons, Forged, Flat 452 Ported Heads (Mopar template) backcut valves
Stock repro 26” Radiator – 3 Row/Tube– Year One Stock Repro Shroud Summit Racing High-Volume Iron Water Pump Added 1973 E-Body Radiator Overflow Bottle 180 Degree thermostat 16PSI Radiator Cap Green 50/50 Radiator Mix Mopar Performance 18” Viscous Fan Package with Standard Duty Clutch Fan roughly 1/2 into shroud
TEMP TEST WITH VISCOUS FAN AND STANDARD CLUTCH --------------------------------------------------
Run car at Stop-and-Go then idle to get temperature up. Temperature will continue to rise unless I intervene.
Outside Temperature 85F Radiator Center (taken from Front) 154F Top Hose 200-205F Bottom Hose 190-200F (+/- 5% margin due to difficult reading) Driver’s head (front) 220F (+/- 5% margin due to difficult reading) Passenger head (front) 230F (+/- 5% margin due to difficult reading) Gauge position 55-60% (Needle no numbers)
Radiator, thermostat, hoses, Fan, clutch, fluid, engine work, etc is 6 months old.
I will post my numbers with the solid fan sometime tonight or tomorrow.
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Re: '70 Cuda Getting Warm - My strategy - Right Path?
[Re: Steve Bryant]
#1656410
08/08/14 10:33 PM
08/08/14 10:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I think a solid (& properly spaced) fan will put a smile on your face
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: '70 Cuda Getting Warm - My strategy - Right Path?
[Re: stinger]
#1656412
08/08/14 10:40 PM
08/08/14 10:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461 Detroit Michigan
stinger
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
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BTW I bought a aluminum recovery tank and mounted it up inside the front fender behind the left headlight. it's invisible and works great.
Last edited by stinger; 08/08/14 10:41 PM.
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Re: '70 Cuda Getting Warm - My strategy - Right Path?
[Re: Golden-Arm]
#1656414
08/09/14 12:03 AM
08/09/14 12:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664 IN
ahy
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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Agree it sounds like a airflow limitation at idle. Suggest you get an aftermarket temp gauge, even if only as a diagnostic to see how bad it is or isn't. Up to 205 deg or so is good. Up to 220 OK and 230 or higher cause for concern. It probably won't boil until 250+ degrees with anti freeze and a pressure cap. I don't worry about creeping at idle if it doesn't exceed above limits as long as it cools on a roll.
In general, the MP fan kit used the smallest fan and loosest clutch to cool with minimum HP loss. If that's not enough cooling, a tighter clutch and/or bigger fan could help. I have had good luck with Hayden clutches. Standard duty for the 5 blade fan and heavy duty for a bigger fan (eg 7 blade from a late 70's Cordoba).
I'm not a fan of fixed fans (pun intended). At speed it sounds like you are driving an airboat. Lots of noise.
I think its worth checking how serious your problem is first and trying to match up a more capable thermal clutch and fan if needed.
FWIW mine does creep up ('70E, BB, AC, big radiator, MP thermal fan kit) but has never overheated... including summertime rush hour around Las Vegas. If desert rush hour was the norm, I would probably install my backup 7 blade fan and heavy duty Hayden clutch but in my application, no need.
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Re: '70 Cuda Getting Warm - My strategy - Right Path?
[Re: stumpy]
#1656418
08/09/14 02:08 AM
08/09/14 02:08 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461 Detroit Michigan
stinger
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
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timing sounds good,may be as simple as a bad or loose fan clutch. this http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html may be worth a look. you didn't mention if you had a hood seal,may help directing more air in the rad. it dose sound like an air movement issue.I still have a slight issue on cruise days when traffic is still and temps are up,considering a elec pusher for that.I've noticed a slightly higher idle speed helps.in gear I'm at 700 but in neutral up close to 1000 and it keeps that gauge from bumping up to high. I run a Hayden clutch,hope this helps.
Last edited by stinger; 08/09/14 02:10 AM.
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Re: '70 Cuda Getting Warm - My strategy - Right Path?
[Re: Steve Bryant]
#1656420
08/09/14 03:20 AM
08/09/14 03:20 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,570 Sunny South Florida
Golden-Arm
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,570
Sunny South Florida
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i'm sure it seems like the fan is sitting inside the shroud (yellow arrow looks like it, up top) but it clearly isn't, at the red arrow. it should be inside the shroud, all the way around. the gap is pretty big, at the red arrow, making it look like it's a half inch (or a bit more) outside of the shroud, at the side. (the shroud is wider up top, to cover the fan, and protect you from getting whacked by the blades.)
"When Tyranny Becomes Law, Rebellion Becomes Duty"
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