Re: Anti Freeze/Coolant in old Mopar
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1655615
08/06/14 01:56 AM
08/06/14 01:56 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 905 SD
zrxkawboy
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 905
SD
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Find some old-school green. NAPA sells it, among others.
If you're talking about Prestone AMM (All Makes/Models), it is a Dex-clone.
It's Swifty! Swifty, you toad sucker!
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Re: Anti Freeze/Coolant in old Mopar
[Re: zrxkawboy]
#1655616
08/06/14 10:02 AM
08/06/14 10:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,083 Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,083
Niles , Ohio
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Dexcool isnt the All Makes /Models coolant.Dexcool is dexcool period.Most stores either have green or AMM which is for anything.Dex is bad stuff and cant be mixed with green.At the shop we ran the newer AMM for years.Never a problem.Its been in our cars for at least 8 years now.We change every 3 years or so.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: Anti Freeze/Coolant in old Mopar
[Re: 440PURSUIT]
#1655618
08/06/14 11:55 AM
08/06/14 11:55 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,160 Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,160
Mass
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Quote:
Thanks, Engine and Additive Technology is evolving a lot these days. Just checking if a modern Coolant is preferred....
C
I've been running the Zerex G-05 with 10 oz of RedLine Water Wetter for about 10 years in the toys...the Zerex is clear in color, and not sticky like the green stuff, or staining, plus with the water wetter it knocked 20 degrees of my running temp...I run a 50% water/50% Zerex
Mike
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Re: Anti Freeze/Coolant in old Mopar
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1655619
08/06/14 04:48 PM
08/06/14 04:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,498 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,498
Minnesota
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I'm going to start switching over to Evans waterless coolant. Last forever and completely prevent corrosion
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: Anti Freeze/Coolant in old Mopar
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#1655622
08/06/14 08:45 PM
08/06/14 08:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521 Tacoma, Washington USA
Adam71Charger
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
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Quote:
I'm going to start switching over to Evans waterless coolant. Last forever and completely prevent corrosion
1st time Ive heard of this, is it a new product? Does anyone here use it? Looks interesting
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Re: Anti Freeze/Coolant in old Mopar
[Re: 440PURSUIT]
#1655624
08/06/14 10:15 PM
08/06/14 10:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,060 Pendleton NY
terzmo
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,060
Pendleton NY
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Quote:
What is the preferred Coolant to use these Days? Dexcool? Regular Prestone?
My little Scamp Street/Strip is ready to roll. No heater Box. 318 w Magnum Heads, Aluminum Radiator. It has a 180 Thermostat and I will use Water Wetter...
Thanks
prestone in that yellow jug or the stuff in the blue jug...as long as it's green...orange crap is for new junk...50/50 mixture
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Re: Anti Freeze/Coolant in old Mopar
[Re: ahy]
#1655626
08/07/14 01:06 AM
08/07/14 01:06 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 905 SD
zrxkawboy
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 905
SD
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Sorry, guys, but Prestone AMM is a Dexclone. Both (AMM & Dexcool) are OAT (organic acid technology) coolants that contain 2-EH (the plasticizer that attacked the LIM gaskets on GM engines). It is most certainly NOT a conventional green-type coolant.
If you can't find conventional green, I would use G-05 after a thorough flush. G-05 is rated for 5 years like the Dexclones, but is a HOAT and does not contain 2-EH.
It's Swifty! Swifty, you toad sucker!
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Re: Anti Freeze/Coolant in old Mopar
[Re: zrxkawboy]
#1655627
08/07/14 01:12 AM
08/07/14 01:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344 Central TX
roe
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
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I use the green Autozone extended life in the orange bottle and water wetter with distilled water. Haven't seen anything to make me change. I buy the full strength and cut it 50/50 then add the water wetter.
1971 Plymouth Satellite 408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
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Re: Anti Freeze/Coolant in old Mopar
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1655628
08/07/14 05:02 AM
08/07/14 05:02 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655 Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
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Quote:
Water removes heat from a motor better than anti-freeze (propylene or ethylene glycol)
Snot true.
This misinformation is specifically addressed thoroughly in the book “Engine Cooling Systems” by Bohacz. Engine performance is lost due to water’s low boiling point. And engine damage is possible from unremoved heat.
Some may believe that water is the best coolant since it has a specific heat of 1. That would be true if an engine was only run at idle or low power output such as cruising. Water does an excellent job of cooling an engine until the load is increased, as in hard acceleration, and the water starts to boil in the cylinder head. When boiling in the cylinder head happens, the water stays cooler since there is less heat rejected into it, but the metal surface temperature of the cylinder head will be higher than it should be.
Your coolant temperature gauge may show normal or even cooler while your combustion chamber metal is overheating, because steam in the heads is a lousy coolant, and the higher heat around the combustion chamber metal never makes its way to the temperature sending unit or the radiator. A coolant with a low boiling point causes cooler temperature gauge readings because it is removing less heat from the engine. What you see on your dash gauge is the coolant temperature, but what you really need to worry about is the combustion chamber metal temperature.
An engine using water as a coolant and under constant load such as climbing a hill will have the coolant in the cylinder head be either in nucleate or crisis boiling states. Boiling water does not remove enough heat and requires detuning the spark advance and carb settings to make up for its low boiling point. Ethylene glycol/water and especially Evans have greater ability to transfer heat away from combustion chamber metal than water due in part to their higher boiling points and less tendency to form vapor bubbles. Evans, which boils at over 375 degrees, tends to stay in a liquid state under engine load and not form vapor filled bubbles next to combustion chamber metal that poorly conducts heat as does water when boiling.
Water with a specific heat of 1 boils at 257 degrees at 15 psi. 50-50 EG/water boils at 264 degrees at 15 psi. While it is true that Evans has a specific heat of about 0.7, the fact that it boils at over 100 degrees higher means it removes far more heat than either water or EG/water. Not only does it boil at over 100 degrees higher, it also has less surface friction allowing gas bubbles to release easier, recondense faster, and conduct more heat. Advantages of Evans, a mix of mainly PG and some EG:
Contains no water and never causes corrosion or deposits. Never needs changing (even though the color may darken over time). Conducts more heat away from combustion chamber metal than anything else. Allows a more aggressive engine build and tune-up. Does not need the cooling system to be under pressure to raise the boiling point. In fact, due to almost no vapor pressure, a closed system won't pressure up. Should never expand and boil over. You can remove the radiator cap at operating temperature with no result. Very low surface tension works well in copper tube radiators and slightly decreases the load on the water pump. Very low vapor pressure means very low loss from evaporation.
Evans which is a straight pour into the engine, contains no water, and is not mixed with water. I bought 4 gallons of Evans for under $160 on Amazon including freight, so it is pricey, but since you never have to change it, if you live long enough, some day it will be cheaper on paper than EG.
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Re: Anti Freeze/Coolant in old Mopar
[Re: kentj340]
#1655629
08/07/14 02:37 PM
08/07/14 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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Welcome to The Church of Evans.
Like many of the world's religions, the Church of Evans helps one to feel better about life. It offers a solution to some of life's problems, giving a means of coping.
The Church of Evans has very few requirements: 1. One must be willing to make a significant financial contribution to join. 2. One must never doubt the truth of the Church of Evans. 3. One must proselytize whenever the opportunity arises.
So here's my take on the Church of Evans: Many of its precepts are true indeed. Water does boil at 212F at standard pressure. Nucleate boiling does greatly reduce the heat transfer from cylinder head to coolant, in the area, however small, that the boiling is occurring .
However, some of its advantages are overstated. Water in a cooling system is at 15 or so psig, making the boiling temperature more like 252F. Nucleate boiling is much less common than the Church would have you believe. Water expands something like 1100 times in volume from liquid to vapor. Significant boiling will result in coolant being expelled from the system, i.e. boiling over.
I have had several loss-of-coolant events in my life. Heater hose, bad hose clamp, electric fan failure, etc. Lucky for me that I didn't have to replace $160 worth of coolant each time.
I do use propylene glycol in 50/50 mixture in my less expensive vehicles. It's known as RV plumbing antifreeze. I buy it for $4 a gallon at Walmart. Add a bottle of antifreeze renewer and I'm set to go.
There must be a MSDS for Evans coolant online, and no it doesn't contain holy water. Read it and see what you're paying for.
R.
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Re: Anti Freeze/Coolant in old Mopar
[Re: kentj340]
#1655630
08/07/14 03:17 PM
08/07/14 03:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,480 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,480
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
Water removes heat from a motor better than anti-freeze (propylene or ethylene glycol)
Snot true.
This misinformation is specifically addressed thoroughly in the book “Engine Cooling Systems” by Bohacz. Engine performance is lost due to water’s low boiling point. And engine damage is possible from unremoved heat.
Some may believe that water is the best coolant since it has a specific heat of 1. That would be true if an engine was only run at idle or low power output such as cruising. Water does an excellent job of cooling an engine until the load is increased, as in hard acceleration, and the water starts to boil in the cylinder head. When boiling in the cylinder head happens, the water stays cooler since there is less heat rejected into it, but the metal surface temperature of the cylinder head will be higher than it should be.
Your coolant temperature gauge may show normal or even cooler while your combustion chamber metal is overheating, because steam in the heads is a lousy coolant, and the higher heat around the combustion chamber metal never makes its way to the temperature sending unit or the radiator. A coolant with a low boiling point causes cooler temperature gauge readings because it is removing less heat from the engine. What you see on your dash gauge is the coolant temperature, but what you really need to worry about is the combustion chamber metal temperature.
An engine using water as a coolant and under constant load such as climbing a hill will have the coolant in the cylinder head be either in nucleate or crisis boiling states. Boiling water does not remove enough heat and requires detuning the spark advance and carb settings to make up for its low boiling point. Ethylene glycol/water and especially Evans have greater ability to transfer heat away from combustion chamber metal than water due in part to their higher boiling points and less tendency to form vapor bubbles. Evans, which boils at over 375 degrees, tends to stay in a liquid state under engine load and not form vapor filled bubbles next to combustion chamber metal that poorly conducts heat as does water when boiling.
Water with a specific heat of 1 boils at 257 degrees at 15 psi. 50-50 EG/water boils at 264 degrees at 15 psi. While it is true that Evans has a specific heat of about 0.7, the fact that it boils at over 100 degrees higher means it removes far more heat than either water or EG/water. Not only does it boil at over 100 degrees higher, it also has less surface friction allowing gas bubbles to release easier, recondense faster, and conduct more heat. Advantages of Evans, a mix of mainly PG and some EG:
Contains no water and never causes corrosion or deposits. Never needs changing (even though the color may darken over time). Conducts more heat away from combustion chamber metal than anything else. Allows a more aggressive engine build and tune-up. Does not need the cooling system to be under pressure to raise the boiling point. In fact, due to almost no vapor pressure, a closed system won't pressure up. Should never expand and boil over. You can remove the radiator cap at operating temperature with no result. Very low surface tension works well in copper tube radiators and slightly decreases the load on the water pump. Very low vapor pressure means very low loss from evaporation.
Evans which is a straight pour into the engine, contains no water, and is not mixed with water. I bought 4 gallons of Evans for under $160 on Amazon including freight, so it is pricey, but since you never have to change it, if you live long enough, some day it will be cheaper on paper than EG.
I was just talking water vs anti-freeze. Not Evans. If anti-freeze did what Evans claims, there would be no reason for Evans to exist.
Like you said, under idling and cruise water is better than anti-freeze. And that is where most of the cooling complaints here happen.
As stated, 50/50 anti-freeze only boils 7 degrees higher than straight 100% water. I did not suggest to run 100% water though. I run additive with water. Remembering from chemistry, any solution in water will increase the boiling point some.
The additives I add to water reduce surface tension, reduce vapor bubble formation, resist electrolysis, anti- rust, and reduce friction.
The additives do not increase the boiling point 100 degrees like Evans does. Neither does 50/50 anti-freeze.
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