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R3 Block Question #1579003 02/14/14 06:12 PM 02/14/14 06:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 68 Omaha, NE D dart69bigblock OP member
dart69bigblock OP member D Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 68 Omaha, NE	Hello all, I have a question in regards to the R3 block. I have experience with big blocks but none with Mopar small blocks. I am looking at all options for a turbo engine application. I have found a good deal on a new R3 block. Here are the specs for this particular block: 59 degree tappet angle 4 bolt main Siamese bore 9.200" Deck Standard Cam Tunnel Rough bore 3.900 I have read that the 59 deg tappet blocks are not recommended for roller lifters and I want to run a roller cam. Can anyone verify if that is true and maybe explain why? Thank you, Chris

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: dart69bigblock] #1579004 02/14/14 06:44 PM 02/14/14 06:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington T Triple Threat master
Triple Threat master T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington	Do you already have any parts you would like to use? Heads, camshaft etc? Factory angle is 59, 48 blocks also exist for some of the better heads on the market. If you are starting from scratch I would reccomend a 48 degree block. Or buying someones motor thats already together. I have a 59 degree R3 block with a solid roller. You definitely can run a roller cam, but there is some work required to the valley area needed for clearance. Last edited by Triple Threat; 02/14/14 06:46 PM. -Dustin 67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi 68 Barracuda 340 F/SA

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: Triple Threat] #1579005 02/14/14 07:00 PM 02/14/14 07:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 68 Omaha, NE D dart69bigblock OP member
dart69bigblock OP member D Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 68 Omaha, NE	I do not have anything as of now. Just keeping my eyes open for good deals and throwing around ideas for what I want to do. I am still not settled on a small block. Am open to a new gen hemi or big block stuff still. I like the idea of a small block due to more room for packaging a turbo or two in the engine compartment. This would be going in a 70 RR. and while it seems weird to put a small block in a RR the 1000+ hp I think will make up for that!

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: dart69bigblock] #1579006 02/14/14 08:28 PM 02/14/14 08:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,082 St. Paul , Mn. tubtar master
tubtar master Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,082 St. Paul , Mn.	The 48 degree motors have much better push rod angles and valve train stability.

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: dart69bigblock] #1579007 02/14/14 10:46 PM 02/14/14 10:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Rollers work fine in the 59(just like a stock block) but the 48 is better... you would be building a stock block(shorter deck) with thicker cyl walls EDIT I would sonic check it but if its decent start at a 4.185 bore... dont mess around with 4.125 bore like I did.... see if you can find some 59* W-9s Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 02/14/14 10:53 PM.

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: dart69bigblock] #1579008 02/15/14 02:52 AM 02/15/14 02:52 AM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 13,198 aZLiViN J J_BODY I Live Here
J_BODY I Live Here J Joined: May 2003 Posts: 13,198 aZLiViN	twins and 1000+ hp.... I'm betting in your research you are going to find that the 48* block and the heavier W8 head will be the weapons of choice.

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: J_BODY] #1579009 02/15/14 04:19 AM 02/15/14 04:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,390 CA. RAY1969CARS pro stock
RAY1969CARS pro stock Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,390 CA.	how hard is it to put 59 degree heads on a 48 degree 9.200 deck ???? Could a 59 degrees intake be used ?? Or would I have to mill a w8 /w9 intake ?

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: RAY1969CARS] #1579010 02/15/14 12:25 PM 02/15/14 12:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,408 Ambridge, Pa. R rickraw top fuel
rickraw top fuel R Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,408 Ambridge, Pa.	check out shady dell's site.

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: RAY1969CARS] #1579011 02/15/14 12:34 PM 02/15/14 12:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: how hard is it to put 59 degree heads on a 48 degree 9.200 deck ???? Could a 59 degrees intake be used ?? Or would I have to mill a w8 /w9 intake ? Remember that its just the lifter angle thats changing.. the deck is still the same but shorter... Ryan (shady dell) did it but you have a lot of material to be removed in the push rod area and off set lifters

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1579012 02/15/14 03:09 PM 02/15/14 03:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,390 CA. RAY1969CARS pro stock
RAY1969CARS pro stock Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,390 CA.	Quote: Quote: how hard is it to put 59 degree heads on a 48 degree 9.200 deck ???? Could a 59 degrees intake be used ?? Or would I have to mill a w8 /w9 intake ? Remember that its just the lifter angle thats changing.. the deck is still the same but shorter... Ryan (shady dell) did it but you have a lot of material to be removed in the push rod area and off set lifters what intake did he use ?

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: RAY1969CARS] #1579013 02/15/14 03:47 PM 02/15/14 03:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Quote: Quote: how hard is it to put 59 degree heads on a 48 degree 9.200 deck ???? Could a 59 degrees intake be used ?? Or would I have to mill a w8 /w9 intake ? Remember that its just the lifter angle thats changing.. the deck is still the same but shorter... Ryan (shady dell) did it but you have a lot of material to be removed in the push rod area and off set lifters what intake did he use ? I dont recall... the build might be on his site... I dont remember what heads he used(that would make a difference on which intake)

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1579014 02/15/14 04:58 PM 02/15/14 04:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 982 western pennsylvania b1dartsport super stock
b1dartsport super stock Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 982 western pennsylvania	If you are interested there is a set of worked 59* W9s with Jesel Roller Rockers on Racingjunk. http://www.racingjunk.com/Heads/182136708/mopar-W9-heads-w-rockers.html

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: J_BODY] #1579015 02/16/14 03:48 AM 02/16/14 03:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 68 Omaha, NE D dart69bigblock OP member
dart69bigblock OP member D Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 68 Omaha, NE	Quote: twins and 1000+ hp.... I'm betting in your research you are going to find that the 48* block and the heavier W8 head will be the weapons of choice. This is exactly what I have found. At least about the block. I have not done too much research on the heads yet. Thank you for all the input guys. Is there any websites or dealers to get the best deal on an R3 block?

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: dart69bigblock] #1579016 02/16/14 02:52 PM 02/16/14 02:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI D dizuster master
dizuster master D Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI	It depends how much the + means in 1000hp+. If you're talking right around 1000hp, you don't need a 48 degree block or W9 heads to do it. Around 15psi will basically double the HP of a N/A motor (Give 'er take a little in some cases). So to make 1000hp, you really only need around 500hp NA to do it. Do you need a W9 head to do that? Of course not. When I added it up before for my next project, I actually found at that power level the Hemi was the best bang for the buck. Blocks will withstand 1000hp, 6.1L cranks are cheap and will take that power, rocker arms are strong, and the heads will flow plenty enough to do it. A low deck would also be a good choice because of the block strength, but you'll end up spending a bit more for crank/heads/rockers to do it. Granted you'll have some expense with the EFI stuff, but the savings on the block/crank/heads/rockers more then offset it. Want to make significantly more then 1000hp? Then the R3 combo will start to win the price war. P.S. If you're talking about my block on race junk, it's already sold. http://www.racingjunk.com/Blocks/182127210/Mopar-R3-Block-Brand-New.html

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: dizuster] #1579017 02/16/14 03:17 PM 02/16/14 03:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 68 Omaha, NE D dart69bigblock OP member
dart69bigblock OP member D Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 68 Omaha, NE	Dizuster- that actually was the block that sparked my curiosity. My right now is around 1000 hp. But as anyone that has ever built a car knows once you reach your power goal, you almost always want more. So not only am I researching for my current goal, but I also want to leave myself room to improve down the road. I have also done a lot of research I to the hemis. The main concern for me with the stock 6.1 block is the possible oiling problem. Some people say worry about and some say don't. If you look into aftermarket stock crank or stroker kits then it really is about the same price as a big or small block. I like the idea of more room in the engine bay with the small block. From what I can tell the hemi gives you from space in front of the engine over a big block but width is no better because of the size of the heads. So many choices and decisions out there! If I were to not use the W9 head what would be another good option?

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: dizuster] #1579018 02/16/14 04:19 PM 02/16/14 04:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,082 St. Paul , Mn. tubtar master
tubtar master Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,082 St. Paul , Mn.	Quote: It depends how much the + means in 1000hp+. If you're talking right around 1000hp, you don't need a 48 degree block or W9 heads to do it. But you will want an R block or equivalent. I suppose the 340 resto block is beefy enough. But at this level , I think the natural choice is 48 degree. Especially if you have an eye on adding more oats down the road.

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: tubtar] #1579019 02/16/14 06:42 PM 02/16/14 06:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI D dizuster master
dizuster master D Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI	Don't worry about the packaging space. There is plenty of room with any option (big block, hemi, or small block) to make it work. How quick/fast are you trying to go? 1000hp will get a regular 3300lb car down to 8.50 (or better). Beyond that, it needs a funny car style cage, and a lot more certification work. I'm all for planning ahead, but you are talking about a CONSIDERABLE cost difference between R3/W9 1500hp motor, and a Low Deck/Gen 3 1000hp motor. Other then the FEW people I have heard on THIS board "saying" there is an issue... I do not believe that there really is a 6.1L oiling issue. Really... do a google search and try to find reference to a 6.1L crank cross drilled issue that didn't stem from this board. BES told me they have them running over 1000hp without an issue. HHP said the same thing. Remember... with the turbo stuff it makes so much torque you don't need to turn killer RPM to make power. My 75mm turbo on a iron headed 360, made 700+ at 5600rpm. The cam was only 224@.050" with .499" lift. So at 6500~7000rpm, what 6.1L oiling issue would you be worried about anyway?

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: dizuster] #1579020 02/16/14 07:12 PM 02/16/14 07:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa 1967dartgt master
1967dartgt master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa	Just curious what factory low deck can take 1000 hp? Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads STR Chassis fabraction

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: 1967dartgt] #1579021 02/16/14 07:17 PM 02/16/14 07:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI D dizuster master
dizuster master D Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI	Turbo'd? 400 or 383 block... No problem. Lots of examples out there. Trendz did it, so did the SDCE challenger.

Re: R3 Block Question [Re: dizuster] #1579022 02/16/14 07:26 PM 02/16/14 07:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa 1967dartgt master
1967dartgt master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa	Quote: Turbo'd? 400 or 383 block... No problem. Lots of examples out there. Trendz did it, so did the SDCE challenger. Pretty sure they both blew up and so did Josh's duster. I thought factory big block had problems at 750 hp levels. I would want to take that chance at those hp levels with stock blocks because if it goes bad you are really moving on the race track. At 1000 hp you will be 150 mph. Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads STR Chassis fabraction

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