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Recommenfations on torsion bars and shocks please
#1528356
11/04/13 12:14 AM
11/04/13 12:14 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 469
Hawaii
Dodgeballs
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 469
Hawaii
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I don't want to spend a bunch of money now, so I would like to build around what I have now.
1969 Dart
340 4 spd. 3.91
Oval track leafs
245/60/14 back
215/70/14 front
I was thinking of addco sway bars because of price.
1 1/8" fronts
3/4 or 7/8" rear?
What size torsion bars should I use? A decent cheaper shock (but if bilsteins are a lot better for a couple hundred more, I guess I can go that way)?
I just rebuilt the front end. What camber/caster/toe settings? The car is not a daily driver. It doesn't go far - I'm in Hawaii. I don't mind a little more aggressive camber setting, I think.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Last edited by Dodgeballs; 11/04/13 12:28 AM.
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Re: Recommenfations on torsion bars and shocks please
[Re: Dodgeballs]
#1528358
11/04/13 03:55 PM
11/04/13 03:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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Regarding TBs... for your a-body.. don't be afriad of stiffer rated bars.. i know a few guys running the 1.14s on the street for A-bodies.. not bad at all and they wouldn't hesitate to install 1.18 if they really wanted to... and you would not regret it.. in fact, it'll end up being a new base for the best suspension mod you'll make.. and remember to keep it an overall "package" (TBs, leafs, shocks, sway bars, bushings... your tires are pretty small, especially in the front.. consider other sizes as well as rims.
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: Recommenfations on torsion bars and shocks please
[Re: jcc]
#1528360
11/04/13 04:45 PM
11/04/13 04:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 469
Hawaii
Dodgeballs
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 469
Hawaii
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Quote:
So in on the island you must always be turning? 
90% of what you are seeking has been covered in other threads here, they are worth reviewing, my only initial comment I'd make, and there are differing opinions on this solution, is only consider the rear bar after everything else is sorted out, and then decide. 
Yeah - it's like a big NASCAR track...
The reason I ask is because I have no idea about setting up a suspension for turns. And I've looked through past threads, but I don't see anything with my setup. I've read some KYB vs Bilstein stuff. I'm not afraid of a stiff setup with the torsion bars, per se. I was wondering what size torsion bars would work best with the Oval Track springs I have... I think I'd like the car to have slight oversteer.
I've had some bad oversteer cars - no fun. The best feeling car I ever had was a stock '78 firebird. You could hit a turn way too fast and it never spun - just kicked the back out a bit and waited for the tires to catch up and get some traction (a piece of junk car otherwise).
Do you guys really think no rear sway bar? Or the small one?
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Re: Recommenfations on torsion bars and shocks please
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1528361
11/04/13 04:48 PM
11/04/13 04:48 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 469
Hawaii
Dodgeballs
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 469
Hawaii
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Quote:
Quote:
So in on the island you must always be turning?
90% of what you are seeking has been covered in other threads here, they are worth reviewing, my only initial comment I'd make, and there are differing opinions on this solution, is only consider the rear bar after everything else is sorted out, and then decide.
As much as I hate too, I agree with jcc on this. I have a rear bar sitting in the corner of my garage because of this. The rear bar made the car ride rougher and a contender for a drifting trophy.
Do you mean it made the car way too loose? I don't mind the rough ride. This thing is gonna be pounded and I don't need a Cadillac smooth ride. I don't want it to spin like a top either, though.
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Re: Recommenfations on torsion bars and shocks please
[Re: Mopar Mitch]
#1528362
11/04/13 04:54 PM
11/04/13 04:54 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 469
Hawaii
Dodgeballs
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 469
Hawaii
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Quote:
Regarding TBs... for your a-body.. don't be afriad of stiffer rated bars.. i know a few guys running the 1.14s on the street for A-bodies.. not bad at all and they wouldn't hesitate to install 1.18 if they really wanted to... and you would not regret it.. in fact, it'll end up being a new base for the best suspension mod you'll make.. and remember to keep it an overall "package" (TBs, leafs, shocks, sway bars, bushings... your tires are pretty small, especially in the front.. consider other sizes as well as rims.
I will change the tires/rims eventually. But they are brand new and (long story) I had to go with what I got right now. I guess I prefer matching the TB's/leafs/shocks to themselves above anything else, since the tires will change eventually. I have poly strut bushings, rubber LCA, and moog k7103 offset uppers.
So I guess to start - what size T-bars would best match the oval track leafs?
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Re: Recommenfations on torsion bars and shocks please
[Re: Supercuda]
#1528364
11/04/13 08:09 PM
11/04/13 08:09 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 469
Hawaii
Dodgeballs
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 469
Hawaii
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Quote:
Quote:
So I guess to start - what size T-bars would best match the oval track leafs?
That depends, what are your corner weights and what is the spring rate of the leafs?
For my 65 Cuda, which isn't all that applicable to you, .89" bars matched the oval track leafs I bought.
I really don't know my corner weights. I don't know if I have access to scales to figure that out. I figured someone with a dart would have a good idea of what to go with.
The spring rates are 120 lbs/inch.
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Re: Recommenfations on torsion bars and shocks please
[Re: Dodgeballs]
#1528365
11/04/13 09:15 PM
11/04/13 09:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Weight has a prime effect on good handling. With AC, without, battery relocated, any weights removed or relocated. It all plays into the effect. Front to rear ratios are important too.
Most of the posters here are into a lot more than just a better handler on the street, sorta semi serious about it actually.
You may want to narrow the options down for us otherwise you are gonna get a bunch of high dollar suggestions. You got a budget?
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Recommenfations on torsion bars and shocks please
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1528367
11/04/13 10:19 PM
11/04/13 10:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,395
The Pale Blue Dot
Skeptic
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,395
The Pale Blue Dot
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Quote:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post7909560
A very relavant thread. I'd recommend Andy F's Torsion Bar Tango as a place to read. As you can guess, what is best is quite different from one person to the next. My cars first upgrade was to the MP .920" bars, Addco 1" front/ 3/4" rear bars and Edelbrock IAC shocks. It made for a good riding combo that I could comfortably take freeway on/off ramps at 2X the posted limits. I'm getting more aggressive with the parts and adding a bigger engine with easily 2X the HP of the tired 318 that was in there before.
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Re: Recommenfations on torsion bars and shocks please
[Re: Skeptic]
#1528368
11/04/13 11:45 PM
11/04/13 11:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 469
Hawaii
Dodgeballs
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 469
Hawaii
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Quote:
Quote:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post7909560
A very relavant thread. I'd recommend Andy F's Torsion Bar Tango as a place to read. As you can guess, what is best is quite different from one person to the next. My cars first upgrade was to the MP .920" bars, Addco 1" front/ 3/4" rear bars and Edelbrock IAC shocks. It made for a good riding combo that I could comfortably take freeway on/off ramps at 2X the posted limits. I'm getting more aggressive with the parts and adding a bigger engine with easily 2X the HP of the tired 318 that was in there before.
I did read that thread. And that article by AndyF was very informative. Thanks.
Maybe I'll try the 1.03", KYB's, 1 1/8, 3/4 sway bars - see what happens.
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Re: Recommenfations on torsion bars and shocks please
[Re: Supercuda]
#1528369
11/05/13 12:21 AM
11/05/13 12:21 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 469
Hawaii
Dodgeballs
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 469
Hawaii
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Quote:
Weight has a prime effect on good handling. With AC, without, battery relocated, any weights removed or relocated. It all plays into the effect. Front to rear ratios are important too.
Most of the posters here are into a lot more than just a better handler on the street, sorta semi serious about it actually.
You may want to narrow the options down for us otherwise you are gonna get a bunch of high dollar suggestions. You got a budget?
I do have a limited budget. That's why I was wanted to figure out something budget that would work together based on what I already have. I have a Roadrunner that I will go full Hotchkiss. But for the Dart, I don't want to put a lot of money towards it right now. I will do some homemade frame connectors. I rebuilt the front. I'm pretty much looking at cheap sway bars and torsion bars to match my oval track leafs. And I guess it's KYB's or Bilsteins. I was looking for something that would handle decent and be balanced within those limitations. I will do wheels and tires - later.
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Re: Recommenfations on torsion bars and shocks please
[Re: Dodgeballs]
#1528371
11/05/13 04:33 PM
11/05/13 04:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 411
Texas
vynn3
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 411
Texas
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Quote:
And I guess it's KYB's or Bilsteins. I was looking for something that would handle decent and be balanced within those limitations.
After I went from KYB's to Bilstein's, and I'd never buy KYB's again. Bilstein's had better comfort AND handling/control with the 1.03" bars. Bigger torsion bars MUST have better shocks to enjoy the full benefits. I'd read this over and over, but didn't fully believe until I tried it.
vm
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Re: Recommenfations on torsion bars and shocks please
[Re: Dodgeballs]
#1528372
11/05/13 09:54 PM
11/05/13 09:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380
Escondido CA USA
Tomswheels
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380
Escondido CA USA
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Quote:
Maybe I'll try the 1.03", KYB's, 1 1/8, 3/4 sway bars - see what happens.
From my personal autocross experience, I would highly recommend the 1.06' with Hotchkis shocks and the biggest front bar you can find. My 69 Barracuda handled much worse with a rear bar! I guarantee the money you would waste on a rear bar is much better spent on upgrading to Hotchkis shocks...
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Re: Recommenfations on torsion bars and shocks please
[Re: Tomswheels]
#1528373
11/05/13 10:14 PM
11/05/13 10:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Gee, wonder why a rear bar was a problem?
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Recommenfations on torsion bars and shocks please
[Re: Supercuda]
#1528375
11/07/13 01:13 AM
11/07/13 01:13 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380
Escondido CA USA
Tomswheels
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380
Escondido CA USA
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Quote:
Gee, wonder why a rear bar was a problem?
I believe when you stop the rear from leaning, you stop what little weight is in the rear from transferring to the outside tire. The rear stepped out much earlier with the rear bar.
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