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46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. #1490119
08/25/13 02:32 AM
08/25/13 02:32 AM
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Irving, TX
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I dug into a friend's 46rh today. The 165,000 mile truck is a recent low-buck purchase that would not move in any gear. No unusual sounds. He pulled the transmission, drained it, and did a thorough cleaning before bringing it over. He said the pan was full of thick nasty stuff.

The first thing I noticed is that there is a heavy varnish on everything. The second thing was that the fluid was not red. In fact, it looked about like relatively clean engine oil. The fluid in the servos was slightly pinker than the rest. The fluid does not smell burned.

After tearing it down, I found no broken parts. Nothing was burned. A few of the bearings are worn as was the thrust bearing for the rear planetary. All the friction surfaces look serviceable. The filter, however, was absolutely disgusting.
The bottom of the drums were caked with garbage. In fact, most things are caked with the stuff. There are signs of rust on many of the parts. The ends of the pinions for the planetary gears are especially nasty.

I did notice slight pitting on the gear and rotor for the pump. Those parts will be replaced.

He has had the converter rebuilt with an upgraded clutch and tighter pitch to better suit the stock Cummins.

Any idea what the culprit might have been? All I can think of is improper lube and a horribly clogged filter.

The fluid and varnish can be seen in this pic:

7826425-IMAG0961-1.jpg (159 downloads)

We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: feets] #1490120
08/25/13 02:42 AM
08/25/13 02:42 AM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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Those run the ATF-4, right?
A mechanic pal told me that there was a little known issue of water contamination in thr trucks. The A/C drain is just above the trans dipstick and if the dipstick seal is compromised, the A/C condensation migrates into the trans. That could be the cause of the rusty areas inside. I'm sure that water mixed with ATF would result in a sludge of some sort.

Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: feets] #1490121
08/25/13 03:10 AM
08/25/13 03:10 AM
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Gainesville,FL
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goldmember Offline
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Check the trans cooler for blockage,if unsure just bypass and install a good cooler. Hard to say from here but converter clutch failure is a problem that often kills a fresh rebuild.

Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: goldmember] #1490122
08/25/13 03:25 AM
08/25/13 03:25 AM
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All the cooler lines are getting a good flush after seeing the guts of this thing.

I suspected converter clutch failure due to the amount of gunk despite having good friction materials. However, I wasn't there when the rebuilder cut the converter open.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: feets] #1490123
08/25/13 03:46 AM
08/25/13 03:46 AM
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Gainesville,FL
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Sounds like you were not there when the pan was cleaned either? Build it and see that the converter is right along with the lines and Cooler and you'll be ok.

Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: goldmember] #1490124
08/25/13 08:10 AM
08/25/13 08:10 AM
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Amherst,NY
challengermike Offline
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To me it looks like it just got hot from sitting and idling, Remember it doesn't pump in park and seeing it's a diesel it probably did that a lot. I would install a manual valve that make's pump in park, Many trans suppliers sell them.

Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: challengermike] #1490125
08/25/13 09:23 AM
08/25/13 09:23 AM
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Greer, SC
TooMany62s Offline
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Rust inside of trans? Flood car?

Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: TooMany62s] #1490126
08/25/13 09:40 AM
08/25/13 09:40 AM
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Oakdale CT
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I have seen fluid like that before, burned up TCC if I recall correct. The rust on parts doesn't sound good, thats really odd.

Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: gdonovan] #1490127
08/25/13 10:11 AM
08/25/13 10:11 AM
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HOw long had it been sitting without being moved?

Sounds like that's where the rust came from to me.


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Don't be the exception.
Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: Supercuda] #1490128
08/25/13 10:50 AM
08/25/13 10:50 AM
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Irving, TX
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I think it sat for a while after the transmission quit. The front drum has minor surface rust on the band contact surface. You can see it in the attached pic.

All I did was tear the transmission down. I was not around when he dropped the pan and cleaned the outside of the transmission.

7826592-IMAG0962-1.jpg (92 downloads)

We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: challengermike] #1490129
08/25/13 12:10 PM
08/25/13 12:10 PM
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Quote:

To me it looks like it just got hot from sitting and idling, Remember it doesn't pump in park and seeing it's a diesel it probably did that a lot. I would install a manual valve that make's pump in park, Many trans suppliers sell them.




Mike its a 46rh , they didn't put those behinds the Cummins , it's a gasser trans.

They do pump in park , but it's not the same volume like it does in neutral.

Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: feets] #1490130
08/25/13 12:11 PM
08/25/13 12:11 PM
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Could have had engine oil in it but it definitely looks like it got some water in there .

Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: JohnRR] #1490131
08/25/13 12:19 PM
08/25/13 12:19 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

To me it looks like it just got hot from sitting and idling, Remember it doesn't pump in park and seeing it's a diesel it probably did that a lot. I would install a manual valve that make's pump in park, Many trans suppliers sell them.




Mike its a 46rh , they didn't put those behinds the Cummins , it's a gasser trans.

They do pump in park , but it's not the same volume like it does in neutral.




My FSM calls the trans a 46rh but it did come out of a Cummins.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: feets] #1490132
08/25/13 01:21 PM
08/25/13 01:21 PM
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Oakdale CT
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Quote:



My FSM calls the trans a 46rh but it did come out of a Cummins.




46RH was used behind the small blocks, should be a 48RH.

The "8" indicates higher torque capacity.

Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: gdonovan] #1490133
08/25/13 01:34 PM
08/25/13 01:34 PM
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Either way, it's not pretty. Unless it's fluid related I don't see any reason for the failure.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: gdonovan] #1490134
08/25/13 02:21 PM
08/25/13 02:21 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Quote:



My FSM calls the trans a 46rh but it did come out of a Cummins.




46RH was used behind the small blocks, should be a 48RH.

The "8" indicates higher torque capacity.




47RH, I dodn't think they were 48 till the release of the HP common rail motors .

My bad and missing that this was behind a cummins .

Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: Kern Dog] #1490135
08/25/13 04:57 PM
08/25/13 04:57 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Quote:


A mechanic pal told me that there was a little known issue of water contamination in thr trucks. The A/C drain is just above the trans dipstick and if the dipstick seal is compromised, the A/C condensation migrates into the trans. That could be the cause of the rusty areas inside. I'm sure that water mixed with ATF would result in a sludge of some sort.




The fluid FULL level is well above the dipstick seal so any leakage would be fluid coming out, not water leaking in.

Since most cooling systems are an anti-freeze mix it's usually not wet enough to cause rust unless it's nearly pure water; rust can be caused by emersion in water (floods or off-road activity) or the fluid not getting up to full temperature (condensation). Either will cause the fluid to gum up.


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Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: John_Kunkel] #1490136
08/26/13 03:34 PM
08/26/13 03:34 PM
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VARNISH!
This simple word is on every lubrication engineer's mind these days. It plugs up passages, gums up sliding parts, and generally makes a mess.
Varnish is actually very tiny soft particulate that is caused by breakdown of the oil. Water seems to be one of the culprits in forming varnish.
Varnish can actually be filtered out of a lubricant by use of special filters that have a special molecular attraction for the varnish. Electrostatic precipitators are also being used.

Varnish is deposited at lower temperatures. Higher temperatures keep the varnish moving with the oil.

At my work we are having problems with varnish causing hydraulic valves to stick. When the spring is supposed to push the shuttle in one direction the shuttle doesn't move and the hydraulic system doesn't work. If clearances are small, it doesn't take a very thick film to stop the valve.

R.

Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: dogdays] #1490137
08/26/13 06:20 PM
08/26/13 06:20 PM
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Irving, TX
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Getting that varnish out of there is going to be quite a chore.
It's so thick that I had to fight the servos to get them apart after the snap rings were removed.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: 46rh is dead. It's ugly in there. [Re: feets] #1490138
08/26/13 06:57 PM
08/26/13 06:57 PM
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Amherst,NY
challengermike Offline
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Mineral spirits works ok for removing it. The hot tank at work doesn't take it off but it will soften it up. Sometimes we use a combo of the hot tank to make it soft and then brush it with the mineral spirits to get it off.

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